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Ok quick question for all you IG commanders. What's more generally useful on the battlefield. A 10 man Psyker Battle Squad in a Chimera with Multi-laser and Heavy Bolter for 165 or a Leman Russ Battle Tank with Heavy bolters all around for 170?

For an IG army the leman russ probably is, however i think you were tailoring a CSM & IG list right?

In that case i'd say keep the PBS, actually after reading that list posted I did a similar list for 2000 points, where the big surprise would be the PBS + Chaos Sorc/Primaris Psyker.

Get a lvl1 chaos sorc and pick the telekinesis primaris power (target unit rolls 3D6 vs their Ld and take the excess as wounds with no armor/cover save), that + weaken resolve fired from the PBS chimera's would be devastating for some elite units, you could also add an IG psyker as HQ and give him the same power just in case the sorcs get denied or just got already locked in combat.

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Get a lvl1 chaos sorc and pick the telekinesis primaris power (target unit rolls 3D6 vs their Ld and take the excess as wounds with no armor/cover save), that + weaken resolve fired from the PBS chimera's would be devastating for some elite units, you could also add an IG psyker as HQ and give him the same power just in case the sorcs get denied or just got already locked in combat.

You can't use WR from a Chimera.

Also, it's still a bad combo, since you have to roll two psychic tests, get through two DTW rolls, and roll to hit with the killing power, making it pretty unreliable. And when you're spending that many points on it you can just get more guns and shoot the enemy to death.

Why can't I use weaken resolve? if it's considered a shooting attack shouldn't it be treated as a witchfire? And I didn't say it was competitive but it would definitively be a surprise for a termie unit to suffer ~8 no save wounds

Weaken Resolve isn't a psychic shooting attack. It's a psychic power used during the shooting phase. That's why it can be used on units locked in close combat. It also means that you can walk forward to expose 1 member of the PBS, use WR, and then make a Run move to get him back out of LoS with the rest of the squad.

it's resolved in the shooting phase, but that, alone, does not make it a psychic shooting attack. It has to actually call itself that (like lightning arc or the large blast template attack) to be able to be witchfire.

As it is, it's a malediction that doesnt' actually call itself a malediction. In any case, it has to be specifically called witchfire or a PSA to be able to be used from a chimera.

And peregrine's right. There are a lot of die rolls we're talking about here. You've got to pass a psychic test, and your opponent has to fail denying the witch. And then you've got to pass another psychic test, and your opponent has to fail denial again. And then you need to roll well for the number of attacks, roll well to hit, roll well to wound, and your opponent has to roll poorly on his saves, all so that you cause enough casualties to actually force a morale check in the first place, which your opponent still always has a chance of passing. And the unit that you're targeting can't be embarked in a vehicle, or fearless. And rallying is now easier than it was before. And PBSs are super fragile, and tend to wipe themselves out with a single failed perils, as, without being at full strength, their attack gets weaker in a hurry.

Meanwhile a russ is tough as nails and only has to hit and wound (and cover, unless you focus fire). It's much less futzy and much more reliable.

Both options you've mentioned are sub-par.

PBS are glass cannons, but without the cannon. As peregrine mentioned, there's too many points of failure for the WR & PS combo to work, without mentioning that you have to be 12" away. Point me in the direction of a unit in the guard codex that is comfortable with being 12" away. To make matters worse, you can't even do it from a chimera. See the FAQ.

The Russ with HB sponons is silly too, you have to snap fire 20 points of heavy bolters. Might as well just leave them off.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
Weaken Resolve isn't a psychic shooting attack. It's a psychic power used during the shooting phase. That's why it can be used on units locked in close combat. It also means that you can walk forward to expose 1 member of the PBS, use WR, and then make a Run move to get him back out of LoS with the rest of the squad.

True that I remembered something regarding being able to do it and still shoot with their weapons however what would it be to avoid being able to use it from the chimera?, It isn't any of the other type of spells, and you draw LoS from withing the chimera since you can shoot with your guns from within

 Ailaros wrote:
it's resolved in the shooting phase, but that, alone, does not make it a psychic shooting attack. It has to actually call itself that (like lightning arc or the large blast template attack) to be able to be witchfire.

As it is, it's a malediction that doesnt' actually call itself a malediction. In any case, it has to be specifically called witchfire or a PSA to be able to be used from a chimera.

It isn't a malediction either since it doesn't occur at the movement phase, it also doesn't last until your next turn. The effect is indeed one of a malediction however by not being classified as such and not fulfilling the rest of the requirements i'm not so sure, the same could be said of it not being a witchfire, it doesn't state that it's an attack still witchfires are the only psy powers that can be manifested on the shooting phase

 Lord Yayula wrote:
telekinesis primaris power (target unit rolls 3D6 vs their Ld and take the excess as wounds with no armor/cover save)

That's the Telepathy Primaris power, not that it makes a difference for CSM/IG as they both can take that discipline too.

Lord Yayula wrote:still witchfires are the only psy powers that can be manifested on the shooting phase

So?

Where does it say that WR is a witchfire attack?

Nowhere. Therefore you can't use it out of a chimera, end of.

After all those die rolls and everything I would not feel comfortable putting that many points into such an expensive combo your opponent will see a mile away. Plus, the pyschic shriek power only has like what, a 12" range? That alone pretty much means that if anyone from your target survives, the primaris pysker and his unit are dead meat.

Meanwhile, I sit back all game and cast battlecannon every turn. And you can't deny the battlecannon. Although I'd leave the heavy bolters off of it, those things are completely useless on a LRBT. They'd work much better on an exterminator or punisher.