Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I am thinking about taking skaven as my first whfb army but I was wondering before I start gluing stuff together what should I equip my guys with?

I hear slaves are best without anything
should clans rats have spears, spears and shields or what? How about weapon teams? if so which ones?
What banners should I take with plague monks?

Also what is better a screaming bell or plague furnace?
Plaque priests or engineers? And what magical items do I give them?

Slaves are best without anything, for clan rats I like Shields and hand Weapon for the parry save. The way I decide if shields or not I calculate the point investment of the shield needs to be smaller then 1/6 the cost of the model which in this case it is and you get the extra +1AS.

As for the banner for the plague monk I like the Storm Banner if not taken, or the plague banner is great too.

Toss up on the last question, if you have 40 plague monks I might go with a plague furnace you can always bunker your gray seer in clanrats, but the bell has a lot of cool abilities but as skaven you will lake some hammers and the plague furnace will tally more kills for you.

Hargus56 wrote:
Slaves are best without anything, for clan rats I like Shields and hand Weapon for the parry save. The way I decide if shields or not I calculate the point investment of the shield needs to be smaller then 1/6 the cost of the model which in this case it is and you get the extra +1AS.

As for the banner for the plague monk I like the Storm Banner if not taken, or the plague banner is great too.

Toss up on the last question, if you have 40 plague monks I might go with a plague furnace you can always bunker your gray seer in clanrats, but the bell has a lot of cool abilities but as skaven you will lake some hammers and the plague furnace will tally more kills for you.

So hand weapons would be better for clans rats than spears? I am not very familiar with the rules but don't spears allow more ranks to fight? Also what magical items would one take?

Skaven are sucky fighters. An extra row of suck fighting doesn't help all that much. Shields, however, are actually worth their money in straight math terms. A +1 armor and 6+ parry save quite literally pays for the cost of the shield with points to spare. Your chance to parry alone is 1 in 6 or .16666. Cost of a clan rat is 4. .16666 * 4 = .66677. That's how much points you save per shield and you only pay .5 and it doesn't include the bonus to armor.

Slaves are so cheap that formula doesn't work unless the armor save isn't negated. But slaves exist to die. You generally want them throwaway.

The weapons teams are all kind of fun and neat. They are just really unpredictable. It's hard not to like the ratling gun.

I'm confused about this thing I keep reading about Slaves existing to die. Aren't they a tarpit? Meaning, wouldn't you want them alive as long as possible? What's the reasoning here?

 Tangent wrote:
I'm confused about this thing I keep reading about Slaves existing to die. Aren't they a tarpit? Meaning, wouldn't you want them alive as long as possible? What's the reasoning here?

The way I understand it is that you are better off taking more slaves than getting shields. 40 slaves with shields cost cost 100 points, for the same 100 points you get 50 naked skaven slaves. If you get 12 wounds you would expect to make 2 saves so you would be down to 30 slaves. The same 12 woulds would drop your naked skaven down to 38 models. So at the end of combat you are left with 8 more models for the same price.

Because clan rats cost more points it is more important to protect the numbers. Also I think one of the huge reason people bring shields is because the blood isle starter set comes with shields and that is where the majority of your rats come from

Because it's not cost-effective. The best tarpit is the one that costs the least. They aren't going to kill anything, so you don't bother arming them. It's cheaper to buy 10 more slaves than it is to buy shields for all of them. Mathematically,

Slaves cost 2. Shields 1/2. A shield provides a 16% chance to resist a CC wound via parry at a cost of 25% more points. That's not equitable. 25% > 16%. You lose 9% effectiveness for every shield you buy. IF something is fighitng only head-on and in CC and with <4 Str then shields are a bonus. But the game likely ends before it matters. Especially since flanks and ranged and rear and spells and >3Str reduce the benefits of shields so they won't be in play all the time.

Basically, it doesn't matter a LOT cuz the cost is so little. But slaves will tarpit whatever they attack. And they will tarpit it until the end of the game. And they will likely lose the same amount of points dying with shields as dying without them. So you might as well have that 25 points you were going to spend and put them somewhere more useful.

IMHO.

Slaves still have the Strength in numbers rule, therefore more bodies means more ranks which mean you'll be steadfast longer and be testing on higher leadership, and if they blow up (cornered rats) more ranks means more damage to the unit that destroyed them.

It's very nice to see people that love skaven. You guys know i have my own skaven forum if anybody is interested.

Anyway yeah i don't take slaves but they are a tarpit. I'd never take spears with slaves if i used them (i don't have the money for a bunch of slaves). Considering clanrats have light armor i give them shields as a bonus. Really i only give them spears for preference. I'm sure these guys are right to only give them hand weapon and shield though. I don't expect clanrats to do well so making them more survivable is good. Of course the parry save of hand weapon and shield would be great but if you fight strength 4 units your armor goes away pretty fast and then it's just a +6 and another +6 to save. Really i just prefer the looks of spears in comparison to the hand weapon and shield look and that's why i take them.

I don't think i would prefer a plague furnace or screaming bell so much as take both. I haven't used the screaming bell yet because i don't have the money to get one but it boosts like crazy. I did at one time think of using queek and his stormvermin and then giving them death frenzy or skavenbrew and then having a screaming bell close enough to boost them with a bubble so they would have a crazy amount of attacks with possible re-rolls. It might work but i dunno.

Speaking of which it probably isn't worth me giving my stormvermin shields because they can't use them in close combat anyway (2 handed weapon equals no shield). However for one point in comparison to all the points they cost i figure it'll probably save a few guys and prevent a panic so i use it anyway. They cost a ton though.

Weapons teams i prefer are the warpfire thrower and the poisoned wind mortar. The warpfire thrower is good against almost everything except heavily armored knights and high toughness monsters and the poisoned wind mortar is a knight and warriors of chaos killer. I don't use the ratling gun but it's better than i used to think because it doesn't have negative modifiers for shooting at full range or for shooting multiple shots which is part of the reason why i didn't use it. That said it misfires too much for my tastes even though i like its range and the idea of gatling guns in the hands of skaven. I'd just prefer a warpfire thrower somewhere to the back and in between my units that can turn on the spot and shoot into a pursuing enemy unit and kill 12-15 elves in a turn and cause a panic automatically or burn trolls and go through their regeneration saves leaving their regeneration gone for the whole shooting phase and then opening them up further for the warp lightning cannons to have their way with them which they usually do with regeneration gone. It's important to use this weapon team first against regeneration units and then to use the warp lightning cannons but that's only if you have range most likely.

As far as the other two weapons teams the ratling guns i just don't prefer them and would rather have a warpfire thrower. The doom flayer is bad and the only way it could work is if you assaulted the enemies in two in the flank with them while also hitting them with a ranked unit in the front. I kid you not when i say only use them as a test for a battle you don't care to lose. Never charge a shooting unit with them and never charge the front of a unit with them esp. if their initative is higher. Also don't charge a unit of ogre sized guys even in the flank with them in most circumstances. It's just much easier to say the doom flayer sucks and to never use it since it mostly does and almost always dies before doing anything. The reason for this is it's far too ponderous and it's hard to get it where you want it to go.

For plague monks if you take them give them the plague banner. Give the storm banner to your stormvermin or to a BSB. Both of those banners are worth their weight in gold or platinum, diamonds or warpstone even. The storm banner is normally for countering war machines when i use it but it can make a flying enemy get stuck doing nothing for a few turns which is actually pretty freaking fantastic. Unfortunately it can last into your turn and then hurt your war machines too like the warp lightning cannon but i still think it's worth it. The -2 to BS is just a bonus.

As far as wargear goes i'm willing to say the only thing really worthwhile as far as weapons go is the fellblade (fantastic but i take the rat ogre mount with my warlord when i take it because it gives him 4 wounds and adds more attacks). I've heard good things about the doom rocket but i never took one. I like the idea of the brass orb and the death globe and i use both at times. Even against high elves the brass orb can be useful against artillery pieces though generally it's a waste against high initiative units. It can be good vs monsters too. I bet it'd make somebody cry if you skitterleaped it up to a caldron of blood or other similar beast and just killed it outright.

I have been up in the air about getting an assassin but currently i feel i shouldn't. I'd have possibly gotten the bomb you can deploy to freak out the enemy and possibly prevent some movement but i don't know if it'd be worth it. The warpstone stars sound ok but it's 3x strength 5 hits that do d3 wounds. This wouldn't be bad until you consider that the range is poor (8") and you're always going to be firing at full range. So far that means we have to worry about long range shots and then multiple shots because why would we just shoot once. So that's a -2 for shooting something i have to stand in front of just to shoot which doesn't even account for other modifiers like the enemy unit being skirmishers or in cover or standing and shooting a unit that goes at my unit. I suppose i can maybe throw the assassin in somebody rear somewhere and then just unleash havoc with this but it still probably won't help.

I don't use any of the clan moulder items because i think they suck . Sorry.

I only use the plague banner for plague monks too.

For other items like i said the plague banner and storm banner are great but don't use any other banners. I want to like some of the banners like the one that gives a d3 for combat resolution or similar, the one that makes you move faster at the cost of men and a couple others. I find all those banners aren't that good though. I probably would use some of them provided some situations but probably not. The scurrying banner would be ok with a plague furnace and plague monks as it's still just str 3 hits against the unit but then why would i replace a plague banner with that and it's still just a 15 inch movement instead of a 10 inch movement.

So with items i figure the only useful ones are skavenbrew, brass orb, doom rocket (maybe), death globe, smoke bombs (to an extent because i use gutter runners and it gets the enemy out in the open and failing to succeed their charge), storm banner, plague banner, the fellblade (an excellent monster killer and prevents most heroes from wanting to face him though they'd probably accept the challenge with a dinky champion instead which is a common thing that i've done myself for differing reasons like wanting the killing power of a fellblade and not getting killed in a fight it has no business being in mostly due to stupid higher initiative somehow).

I find it's not easy to skitterleap and use cracks call in the same turn as your enemy is willing to stop one or the other either preventing you from getting out there or having your poor warlock there to die even if you chose to get in the back of the enemy army (war machines can turn on the spot although a shot at that means a shot that doesn't go somewhere else more worthwhile so that's good). Usually though cracks call is best against war machines, monsters and ogre sized units i find since it doesn't allow any saves. However i think it can collapse buildings too which is fantastic if somebody is a jerk and decides to throw something dumb in a watchtower like warriors of chaos or swordmasters or something.

So as skaven just remember your core is mostly garbage unless you take queek's special stormvermin and generally weapons teams help to soften up the enemy first. The skaven weapons of war and monsters help do the real heavy lifting for the skaven though.

------------------------------------------

@hargus56: Yeah i almost threw a base 15 pts warlock in with each skavenslave unit and just had a bunch of leadership 8 skavenslaves but i figure it's better to have your general close enough to confer leadership). Part of the reason is it gets rid of other abilities like allowing you to shoot into the skavenslaves when they're in melee with another unit when any character is in the skavenslave unit. Also when they flee and a character is in it that also counts as more than just skavenslaves running so the other units do care he's fleeing which isn't a good thing.

That's why it's good just to have butt naked skavenslaves fighting in hordes with no leaders either. Use the skavenslaves to tie up enemies and then shoot into them. Speaking of which i never got why people mention a unit getting its points back. In the case of skavenslaves they don't get their points back but they hold back the enemy and can get shot at in melee without panicking because of it. Really that in itself is the fantastic thing and they're toughness 3 for only 2 pts. Honestly that's fantastic and makes them very good for soaking up enemy shooting and really anything.

Sadly i like the look of the new skavenslave sling upgrade pack but it's purely an aesthetic feel rather then a for gameplay purposes though i suppose small units of skavenslaves killing off dinky little goblin fanatics would be nice though i could just force small units of skavenslaves to run into them and eat them and die instead.

@flamingkillamajig: As useful as all of that is, could I ask you to use s'more punctuation in future posts? It's hard to read all of that without any capital letters. The rhythm of the text gets thrown off.

@lambsandlions: to throw in my two Warptokens to your original questions:

1. as others have said, slaves with nothing, Clanrats with shields. Spears are about equal to the Parry save, but the lose of armour/increase in points swings it in favor of shields.

2. Weapon teams are good, except the Doomflayer and Warp-grinder. The Mortar and Ratling Gun are the most versatile, while the Warpfire Thrower is the most destructive.

3. The Storm Banner is the 2nd best magic item in the book, assuming you took less shooting than your opponent. The Plague Banner is the best thing for Plague Monks specifically, though I've also had success with the Shroud of Dripping Death.

4. The Bell is good all-around at doing some weird stuff. A free Scorch is nice, as is some extra movement and the like. Doing d3 wounds to all models T7+ has potential to do some stupid things (I was fighting some Lizardmen with a Life-Slann and 40 Temple Guard. Stone to Flesh made them all T8. And then they each took d3 wounds...)
The Furnace is usually considered better, because it's a little cheaper (though the Bell is indirectly cheaper, since most people run Grey Seers, but few use Plague Priests without the Furnace), and it's more focused on killing stuff. It also may have the potential to dish out the most wounds in the game, ever (Misfire! for an extra round of attacks on the turn you activated the Plague Banner after you cast Blessed with Filth. I did...I dunno, something like 110 wounds).

5. In terms of competitive lists, I will say this:

Always and forever take a Warlock Engineer with the Doomrocket. No exceptions. Ever. Do it.
The Doomrocket is the best thing in the book, hands-down. It's cheap, it's devastating, and it's somehow really reliable.

Beyond that, the Brass Orb can be awfully mean in specific situations. The Death Globe is inferior to the Doomrocket in every way. Less power/point, less reliability. But it's still good.

The Warp-power Condenser is a good buy for Engineers with wizard levels, as is the humble Dispel Scroll (assuming your Grey Seer filled his Arcane Item spot with a Power Scroll).

Plague Priests don't actually need much beyond a Plague Censer or a flail. Never leave the house without one of those. A decent Ward save will help him out; at T5, he actually stands a decent chance of surviving combat, unlike the Engineers.
When he's riding a Furnace, it's hard to justify not giving him an Ironcurse Icon. It's only a 6+ save, but when that save applies to cannonballs, and it costs 5pts for the whole unit (Furnace included)...well, you get it.

@Warpsolution: Yeah i tend to say far too much.

I find these crazy situations you mention to be weird though with the plague furnace.

When i still used them if ound my plague censers to use the 'bless with filth' spell best. That was fantastic against monsters and considering hatred allows re-rolls to hit. It's fantastic. What were you fighting anyway to get that many wounds? Night goblins, skeletons?

Speaking of crazy loadouts i had this one idea for a loadout where i get a screaming bell and clanrats as a buffing unit and then queek and his stormvermin in another with possibly a warlock and skavenbrew in said unit. They get death frenzied early on and then the bell gives the additional attacks or re-rolls to hit and wound bonus with its buff bubble. Something around 3 extra attacks with 30 guys attacking and possible re-rolls for hatred or to hit and wound if you roll it on the bell. Either way it's very nice.

You know what i never get is when they have the FAQ mention something nobody cares about and i had to wait for forever for them to clarify whether the dreaded 13th could turn monstrous infantry or whether slaves with leaders could still be shot into and whether they still didn't cause panic when they ran (apparently a 15 pts warlock prevents shooting into slaves and causes panic in all units).

I was battling it out against a HUGE unit of Eternal Guard with the 5+ Harp save, actually.
He had to decided whether to re-direct my A-bomb behind some impassible terrain and take the charge from the Furnace, or to divert the Furnace for a turn and take the A-bomb. The first option seemed best (to both of us). But then I activated the Banner (which he knew was coming), and then I IF'd Bless with Filth at the cost of the rest of my power dice (fine with me), then I Misfired! with the Wrecker Attack and rolled up the best result ever.
He made a lot of Ward saves. I caused way more wounds. Silliest round of combat ever. We were both speechless.

Great thread for a skaven newbie like myself.

What's a good size unit for a slave tar-anvil?

Any thoughts on the hell pit abomination? Looks super fun to play but also seems crazy expensive.

Are warp cannons auto-take or can you win without them ESP using banner of storm etc.

Personally i think all rares except the plagueclaw catapult are fantastic. I just don't like strength 2 even if it's large blast with no armor save.

Warp lightning cannons can do tremendous damage and go through armor and then they do d6 wounds (remember the attacks count as magical too). They're pretty much anti-everything except big stuff. Use them against elite units, knights, esp. monstrous infantry (i can't stress how powerful this is against ogres considering my one game and possibly minotaurs). I would say against large units it really depends on the toughness and wounds amount. Chances are it won't hurt an arachnorok much but it'll most likely wound it.

The hellpit is fantastic and i personally think it's just awesome. It always does a good job but lately i prefer the warp lightning cannons. The hellpit almost always does something nasty and makes its points back and it doesn't like to die. Very fun if nothing else.

The doomwheel is tricky but you need to use it right. It's similar to the hellpit with impact hits and moves but it mostly relies on its impact hits. It pretty much does exactly what a hellpit does except not as good aside from one thing. This one thing is very important though and that is the shots it can do. It has the potential to take down monsters and small units incredibly well. I tend to use it for outflanking and use against small units, cavalry and mostly monsters and such. It's not easy to work with but sometimes it'll mow down a skirmishing unit, then another and then lay low or almost lay low a monster and then you'll love it. It's very tricky to work with and you have to think about its movement. Very fickle but very awesome when it works.

The storm banner is fantastic and i'd use it anyway. If your enemy doesn't have shooting with BS they'll probably have weapons teams or war machines and if they don't have that they'll probably have flying units. It grounds all flying units and ruins shooting badly. As you said it'd be a pain with warp lightning cannons but you've got a 50% chance it'll end after the enemy's turn anyway. Usually it doesn't last more than 2-3 turns (counting one for one of the player's turns) but sometimes it'll last like 4 or so which is unusual but usually funny.

I'll also add to take our advice on weapon teams. Warpfire throwers are fantastic against most things except cavalry but you have to be careful with them. I put them to the back of my units and in the middle of all my units so that panicked units don't freak them out. Basically the way it works is an enemy tries to run down one of my clanrat or stormvermin units when they win combat (they usually do) and then the warpfire thrower turns on the spot and shoots into their flank. I've gotten like 12-15 high elf casualties like that and sometimes much more. Also had a very good run against trolls considering the d3 wounds and flaming attacks that go through regeneration.

Poisoned wind mortars are basically knight killers. I don't know why but sometimes that thing really loves eating knights with its shots. I once killed like 5 knights in one shot with the thing and that's not normal or it's not supposed to be anyway.

Then there are ratling guns which i think misfire too much but the important thing to know is that it can fire multiple shots and at full range with no negative modifiers. I used to not know that about shooting at full range and thought they were terrible. Now i might give them a shot or 20 .

Ask somebody else about slaves. Really i'd use them more for holding up an enemy and shooting into them. Remember only slaves care when slaves route but they blow up when they die basically so don't get too close. I would run the 15 pts warlock slave detachment but it was FAQ'ed that an independent character in that unit (like a warlock) is to my knowledge treated like any normal unit that routes or gets shot at. So you can't shoot a warpfire thrower into them if there's an independent character in there. It makes sense but it's annoying. Skaven in the last army book shot into all their units if i can remember correctly. Now you can only shoot into slaves unless it's by accident or you shoot with poisoned wind globadiers and to my knowledge people don't really use them.

Slaves are usually seen in units of 50 to pin down the enemy, but I've been seeing plenty of units of 20, to redirect charges.

The A-Bomb is absolutely amazing. It's not the biggest and baddest monster on the block anymore, but it is a potential threat to everything that doesn't have flaming attacks, which is most things.

As for Warp Lightning Cannons, they are the best unit in the Skaven book.
@flamingkillamajig: Warp Lightning Cannons are better at killing Big Stuff than anything else in the book.
Ratling Guns have a 1 in 6 chance of a Misfire! on the second die and a a 1 in 3 on the third, so it's a fifty-fifty shot when you roll three dice. It looks less reliable at first, but then if you consider that a non-Misfire! is going to hit (versus over/under shooting, like with the 'Thrower and the 'Mortar), it actually ends up more reliable.
And as for putting Engineers in Slave units, I have never heard anyone claim that you could shoot into such units, even before the FAQ was out.
Slaves are already too good of a unit, to be fair. We don't need them maintaining their efficiency while straying from the General.
The old book was used in an edition where units didn't have step-up or Steadfast, so combats didn't last as long, and being able to shoot into them was less awesome than it would be now.
Plus, they changed up templates, so it's usually an even better deal for us (just not against Hydras, but hitting 20+ Slaves with a Warpfire Thrower and then shifting half of those onto the beasty never sat well with me anyway. Though I was often tempted to, because Hydras never sat well with me either).

Yeah well i'm just talking about my personal experience that the doomwheel and the fellblade were better at monster killing than the warp lightning cannon was. Chances are the warp lightning cannon would roll a low amount for strength and that doesn't matter so much against most units besides monsters. Against monsters if you hit some of the higher toughness ones it probably wouldn't make a dent in them. Then again i don't play fantasy a whole lot so there ya go.

Also the idea i used to have of leadership 8 slaves from a low point warlock was pretty funny. I guess i just wasn't happy to know that the character would force a panic for all units if it broke.

As far as the abomination goes i was so happy when it finally came out after so much waiting....and then a month later the arachnorok comes out with the orcs & goblins release. Needless to say i was not pleased. Of course i don't hate it as much as i used to. I should really take a fellblade warlord more even if an enemy would try to avoid it. Not like they're good enough to pay attention though. I should really stack on the poisoned attacks or something. My big stuff killers aren't really there. I'm too fond of my queek's stormvermin with death frenzy thing.

The Cannons are 90pts and have a great range. The 'Wheel's Zzzap Bolts needs it to be closer to the target than it is to anything else, and it doesn't have much in the way of attacks beyond the Bolts, which have the same strength as the Cannon.
The Fellblade costs 190pts minimum, and it's pretty easy to avoid (once your opponent sees you rolling a die for your Warlord, he'll probably just throw some crap units in his way). The Cannon hits at S2 and 4, which aren't good for monsters, but 6, 8, and 10 are great.
I can't remember the math at the moment, but I believe it's a 50-50 shot of hitting something with a Cannon, so it's a 25% chance or better/turn of dealing out 3-4 Wounds.

Ld 8 Slaves was good, and worth it for 15pts, but the rules for Skavenslaves always seemed quite cut-and-dry to me.

Well they might try to get away from the fellblade or do something against it but usually my opponents aren't super aware of that sort of thing. You'd think a die rolled per turn for wounding against my leader would be a clear indicator something's not right.

As i said i think the doomwheel is a 50/50 type unit that you have to charge with or get eaten. It also relies on those bolts and can't really kill more than small units.

The hellpit is fun but it almost never gets back up. It's funny when it does but it almost never does and if an enemy knows about its special rules they'll just hit it with flaming attacks once.

The warp lightning cannons are fantastic and i probably should've taken 2 in the battle i had today. Then again the battle i had today i should've just stood back and shot until he was forced to meet me on my terms.

I basically had a weird battle with a river of light on my opponent's side and a spider forest (poisoned attacks and dangerous terrain) on mine. I was also noobish enough to forget my poisoned attacks into his skinks though i don't think it mattered much. After everything was said and done it was still down to queek and his hero though. Seeing lizardmen strike at initiative 10 and WS 10 that whole game was not fun. Anyway lesson learned. Normally i thought being in a river was a bad thing for ranks and movement but apparently with light spells it's a very good thing. I'm not used to rivers though.

What's your opinion on the plagueclaw catapult? Personally i think for what it does you can use so many other units that are so much better.

I find it funny most of the things i've come up with match what quite a few of you online players mention about skaven.

-----------------

@warpsolution: I'm fairly sure you're the better player here also given i don't get to play often but are there any tips you can give to a fellow skaven player? I think the battle i would've had today would've been ok had i fought him on my terms and i easily could have. I guess i just lack patience and he kept casting the comet of cassandora down near my guys so i just ran from that.

Meh i'm not used to the spells of light. I guess next time i will be and i'll get him to fight me on my terms. I'm sure if we fought on even terms i would've crushed him. He usually enjoys battles under 2k points that use the transformation of khadon with a chimera and it's his only ace in the hole. This game i think he lucked out with the river but i didn't know low end spells would be so fearsome.

Sorry for the wall of text. I talk too much.

The Catapult is disappointing. It's best targets are large units of low Toughness and high armour models. The Cannon's ideal targets are medium-sized to large units, multi-wound units, high armour units, and single models in front of other units. It's so much more versatile and it's cheaper.

Honestly, I don't play that much m'self nowadays. Lack of players.
My overall advice on Skaven is: target saturation, an average cost of around 10pts/model, redirect and absorb charges, combo-charge whenever possible, always take a Doomrocket, and never, EVER be without a dirty trick up your sleeve.
Also, if the game is doomed and you've got basically zero chance of victory, flee. Start running, and never stop.

Sorry that I asked this already in my Army List thread, but this one is much hotter

Does the Warp Condenser allow a 5+ roll for 1 extra power die in addition to the roll you make for each caster?

Ex: I take one on my Grey Seer, and roll a D6 for him (needing 6 to get +1 PD), then another D6 for the Warp Condenser (needing a 5+ for another +1 PD)?

Seems like a crazy deal for 20 points if you get both rolls.

Also, the Dreaded 13th spell seems pretty crazy in this edition, I've been goofing around with rolling about 6 dice for it and even with miscasts (which don't seem very catastrophic since 7 is the most rolled outcome from my testing) it averages to A) cast against a L4 enemy caster to dispel and B) knocks about 10-15 enemies out of the game.

Anyone had in-game experience with this one?

*Edit
Oh just remembered this question, does a unit champion count as a character for the purposes of Skitterleap? I was thinking of Skitterleaping a Pawchampion in front of a bit mean unit, or using him to draw out NG Fanatics etc, seems like a hilarious and very Skaven thing to do

To my knowledge yes warp condenser allows for the +5 roll in addition to the normal rolls per caster. Honestly i don't think it's as good as you make it out to be. Most people see the d6 roll per caster thing to be a relatively meaningless but it is nice to get another die or two per turn.

I honestly prefer plague to the dreaded 13th most of the time. Sure the dreaded 13th can kill off a bunch of guys regardless if you roll correctly but if plague goes off it can kill off half a unit on average (considering the big units of 8th if it's a 60 man unit of high elves that equals 30 kills unless there's a ward save like phoenix guard) and go through armor. The dreaded 13th is way too specific and only effects normal infantry so it won't even effect ogres. I dunno it's good sometimes in certain moments but i normally prefer plague when possible. I'd use the dreaded 13th against elite units like warriors of chaos and swordmasters. Against big units i'd use plague.

Against fanatics do what i do. Get a wizard with cloud of corruption in place and then just nuke the area with your 12" bubble. Sure you'll hit your units but usually it only will mess up your weapons teams. Small units that flank, weapons teams and fanatics will get destroyed by that. I effectively used that one game to clear out the fanatic minefield that was laid for me. It's very helpful. I find plague, cloud of corruption, the dreaded 13th spell, wither, bless with filth, scorch, death frenzy, cracks call and i think that's it are the useful spells. I'm not fond of the others.

Cracks call makes most ogre equivalents (like trolls) and monsters afraid as they all have fairly low initiative.

Cloud of corruptions is good for small units, cavalry, weapons teams and maybe for throwing a wound or two on average health monsters.

Skitterleap is useful if you need to get something in position but it can be vulnerable. Usually used for really crazy and kooky moves that might hurt a lot, do nothing or blow up in your face spectacularly. It's takes a bit of experience to use properly i think.

Death frenzy is a good buff and it stays on. Nothing wrong with a unit immune to psychology till it loses its first combat. Problem is you have to test or charge with frenzied units so a decent leadership might be nice to have so your enemy doesn't just throw some fast cavalry at it and then run them away leaving you open to a flank charge or similar ugliness.

Scorch is pretty good but it leaves me wanting. Sure you can throw out a template where you want but it's no warpfire thrower with D3 wounds and str 5. It does have good range and hits where you want though. It's hard to be as good as a warpfire thrower or warp lightning cannon though. However this is magic to shooting so i shouldn't compare. Still good if you want to take regeneration off an enemy unit during the magic phase and could kill a decent amount of guys but not as good as plague in my opinion. Others may love it more.

Then you have the bless with filth spell. My favorite use of this used to be to give it to a hatred unit like plague censer bearers and then just let them loose on a monster. It was fun. I still might have some limited success doing that with other things like rat ogres with a skweel giving them something and possibly raising poisoned attacks to +5 or getting regeneration units with poisoned attacks or more attacks with said poisoned attacks. Still it only last till your next magic phase so your enemy might just stay out of combat with them if they can. That's why you have to make sure they hit combat fast. Nothing too special but my friend yesterday had his skinks in a river of light and queek's elite stormvermin on my side with WS 5 and str 5 were in a spider forest (poisoned attacks) and i used bless with filth on them for a +5 poisoned attacks. That would've been particularly sick even if it only hit skinks but he just avoided fighting them. I'll admit i make noob mistakes but i think i just failed to charge with them. Oh well it would've been nice.

I can definitely agree that a doomrocket is worth taking.

I know i'm a skaven player but sadly i have not used a doom rocket yet. I do like me some death globe and brass orb shenanigans once in a while though.

There are a lot of gunlines at my gaming club so I'm kind of forced to go down the artillery road too.

Have you posted pics of your army in the army section? I'm always interested to see conversions and the like.

@More Dakka: the Condenser's description doesn't mention Channeling in any way, so it's a separate roll.
The Channeling Staff lets you Channel on a 5+ for 15pts. Even without the +2 Hits on Warp Lightning, it's a good item. Not crazy-good, but definitely solid.

The Dreaded 13th is good. So good, in fact, that some people run two Grey Seers with a Power Scroll and some Warptokens, just to cast the spell twice in one phase.

And Champions are not characters, so no Skitterleaping them.

@flamingkillamajig: don't you mostly cast Bless with Filth and Deathfrenzy on units already in combat?
And I have to say, Scorch is wicked good. It does a good amount of damage, is fairly easy to cast, and never misses. Warpfire Throwers and Warp Lightning Cannons hit harder, but they miss half the time.
Cloud of Corruption is okay, but really specific. The only spell I really can't find a use for is Vermintide. Pestilent Breath isn't very good, but it's at least a little versatile.

And on the Doomrocket: it is better than the Brass Orb, because it is cheaper, more accurate, and its damage is more all-around useful. It's also better than the Deathglobe, because it's 5pts more for a more reliable and almost exponentially more destructive effect.
The Globe and Orb have their uses, specifically heavy armour and low I models, but the Doomrocket is far superior at taking out huge swathes of infantry; the most common unit in the game.

@warpsolution: I thought you couldn't cast the same spell more than once a turn unless it was a signature spell (same with who can know spells). Then again it isn't rolled randomly to get so i guess multiple grey seers could use it. I've just never heard of multiple grey seers casting that spell in the same game. That sounds like it takes up a lot of lord choices.

I think i was trying to make a charge with a unit that was going to be in close combat. I dunno i was really stupid that game. As far as death frenzy i think it's good to have on before the combat hits so you know you have it on and you're not effected by psychology (something that is nasty against all non-unbreakable or non-frenzied skaven).

You've got the right idea on the 13th: it's not rolled randomly, so Warptokens + Power Scroll + 2 Seers (515pts minimum) can indeed = 8d6 infantry casualties. Still, I think it's worth the effort maybe one in five games. Not that great.

That said, we've wandered pretty far off the main topic here. I've stated my piece on the original purpose of this thread, so I'll call it a day.