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As I continue to round out my forces, I'm wondering what Dakka's opinion on Vanguard Veterans are. I've always heard that they were a smidgen too expensive to be worthwhile, but how are they without the jump packs? Anyone have any experience in running them? Any tips on good loadouts? Just looking at the options, it seems that they can get real pricey, real fast (since every single squad member can potentially swap out both pistol and sword).

In the same vein, has anyone had a great deal of success/failure using Death Company? Mainly I'm looking to make my list not quite so top-heavy with Troops (currently uses 3 Grey Hunter squads and 2 Assault Marine squads), and I'd kind of like to check out what the Blood Angels have for elite close combat forces. I've already got the one unit of Sanguinary Guard, and I'm just not sure what else to look at.

Any advice? Thoughts?

They aren't bad, just not good compared to other stuff you can take in the Codex.

Vanguard veterans when used rigth will devestate the opponent. stick them in a drop pod and give them combi weapons. my personal favorit is a combo of combi melta and combi plasma.

As for death company I have never used them, just killed them. But they are a solid enough CC unit but I think regular Blood Angels assult marines are better

 Trondheim wrote:
Vanguard veterans when used rigth will devestate the opponent. stick them in a drop pod and give them combi weapons. my personal favorit is a combo of combi melta and combi plasma.

As for death company I have never used them, just killed them. But they are a solid enough CC unit but I think regular Blood Angels assult marines are better

I think you are mistaking Vanguard for Sternguard.

If we're talking allies I'd go for Death Company since they're troops.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If we're talking allies I'd go for Death Company since they're troops.

They still don't score though.

Vanguards are only worth the price if you intend to use their Heroic Intervention and charge something, so they do need their Jump Packs. Personally I'd use DC just to kill more stuff, but if you can think of a reason to assault from DS then do take the Vanguards. If you can't think of a pressing reason to do it take normal Assault Squads instead.

Spetulhu wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If we're talking allies I'd go for Death Company since they're troops.

They still don't score though.

True, but you don't have to take another Troops choice to unlock them as allies.

I've generally been running two Assault Squads as allies, and while I love 'em both, I think they just lack a little oomph. So what are some good ways to outfit them Death Company? With jump packs? Without? With Lemartes?

I mainly want to avoid buying boxes of them if I'm going to assemble them a certain way and then not use them like that. One way I saw someone run them is just with a mix of bolters, power swords, and power fists (like two swords, two fists, and then a bunch of bolters) and that seemed to work out for him. On the other hand, I think someone else just ran a squad of 10 with Dante and had them loaded with power weapons.

As for the non-scoring thing, I don't care that much. Honestly, I'll probably still be running an Assault Squad and my three squads of Grey Hunters (they can be a hell of a nuisance), so I'll have four different units that can snap up objectives. After a game I had a few days ago, I feel like my army just lacks that deadly punch. The Sanguinary Guard are nice and all, but the no invul thing has been hurting me.

And yeah, I know, Death Company don't have that either, but they've at least got FNP and more models in the unit.

Yes, they are VERY points heavy, more so than Terminators. However, I personally like running the Vanguard Vets in 5 man squads (or 10 man squads Combat Squaded to allow me to bring some higher cost stuff for a bit less vs. bringing a 2nd 5 man squad). While I run them in some of their most expensive outfittings (dual LCs and TH/SS), I do find that they are a good precision strike unit to deal with specific threats. Deep Strike the TH/SS guys near a vehicle you don't want left on the table, declare a Heroic Intervention, assault it, and then it's gone. Do the same with the LC guys against a heavy weapons squad to get them off the table. They are a deployed then destroyed unit, but if they don't make their points back in stuff killed, they will in preventing some of your other units from dying.

Another capacity to run them in is with a character that will give them Infiltrate (such as Shrike from Codex: Space Marines. I'll use him as an example, since I don't know what other characters give Infiltrate to a unit they join). Infiltrate Shrike and the Vets out of LoS, and wait for the first opportunity to charge (T1 if your opponent went first, otherwise T2). Shrike also gives them Fleet to practically guarantee the unit a charge when they are allowed to. Use the Jump Packs to move 12" and charge 2D6" (3D6" discard the highest through difficult terrain), using Fleet to allow YOU to choose which dice to re-roll on the charge. I know you're looking at Blood Angels, but if you choose to go the Shrike route, throw in a squad of 5 doubly-armed Scouts giving the SGT a Power Fist for your Troop choice and use them to Infiltrate and pop a vehicle in melee.