Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey just looking for feedback on this list! What do the Dakka readers think?!

LORDS-603

Level 4 Archmage
 Jewel of dusk
 Floriath robes

Prince
  Barded horse
  Dragon armor
  Enchanted Shield
  Vambraces
  Ogre blade

HEROES-219
Noble
 Barded horse
 Dragon armor
 Lance
 Shield
 Banner of battle
 Bsb


CORE-635

65 spearman
  Shields,  spear
 Full command
 Lion standard

SPECIAL-1119

16 Swordmasters
   Muso, Standard

16 Swordmasters
  Muso, Standard

16 Swordmasters
  Muso, Standard

9 dragon princes
Full command
Banner of Ellyrion
Gem of courage

So that's it! Hard hitting as balls! Was contemplating dropping 4 sm from each unit to have 4 units of 12 instead of 3 of 16, more maneuverability?? Also for magic I think good choices would be light or life, though with life I'd want to grab the silver wand for the wider variety than the extra power dice. Tell moi what you think! (this could be going into a tourney btw. I want mean n fun not cookie cutter n playing to win ie teclis)

Cheers
Mike

I'm not sure I'm a huge fan of this approach. To start with you have no chaff and G.Eagles are widely regarded as one of the best chaff units in the game. If you want to power up your magic phase why not take the BoSorcery instead of the Jewel? You have virtually no ranged abilities to deal with enemy chaff - especially if you take Life magic and next to nothing that can deal with ethereals. You need some more ranged abilities and magical attacks - look to the Am.Light and maybe to dropping some spears for archers. Why do you need 65 anyway? Such a large unit will just get redirected out of the game while the opponent goes after the expensive and easy to kill Sword Masters.

If you really want to do this and need a cavalry bus for characters, SHs are the way to go. You pay so much more for the DPs and then put 2 characters in the front and lose all those points you paid for extra attacks, etc. I would maybe go with Shadow if you intend on running a large block of spears (mindrazor anyone?!).

I don't own g eagles unfortunately and idk I've never ever needed them honestly, not saying they aren't good by any means.

Main reason for the huge block of spears is elves spearman drop like flys pretty much no matter what, I've had so many awesome outcomes using big massive centre blocks of spearman, you wouldn't beleive me if I told you lol

As far as the ranged attacks go, I have honestly given up on he shooting, it's not my thing it's a constant let down in s serious way (least in my exp) I used to run that block as seagaurd instead of vanilla spears n I basically payed 4 PTA extra a model to kill 1 to maybe 8 models on a good day , I just can't justify it personally. I'd rather take full advantage of asf and keeping the spears around longer

I completely spaced on the magic attack thing that's going to get fixed I think a amulet if light on my nage will be able to remedy that,

I'm not looking die a character cav bus, more of a combat res unit that can hammer n overwhelm n still win combat after the first round. Also idl if your familiar with the point difference but silver helms are a sad sad display of cavalry compared to dp, it's about 3 points more for a dragon prince you get +1 atk, ws, I, and leadership plus 2+ ward vs breathe and flaming, and you cab take a magic banner and item on the champ, there is no comparison between the two there

I'm unfamiliar with the term "chaff" what is that?

Cheers
Mike


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't own g eagles unfortunately and idk I've never ever needed them honestly, not saying they aren't good by any means.

Main reason for the huge block of spears is elves spearman drop like flys pretty much no matter what, I've had so many awesome outcomes using big massive centre blocks of spearman, you wouldn't beleive me if I told you lol

As far as the ranged attacks go, I have honestly given up on he shooting, it's not my thing it's a constant let down in s serious way (least in my exp) I used to run that block as seagaurd instead of vanilla spears n I basically payed 4 PTA extra a model to kill 1 to maybe 8 models on a good day , I just can't justify it personally. I'd rather take full advantage of asf and keeping the spears around longer

I completely spaced on the magic attack thing that's going to get fixed I think a amulet if light on my nage will be able to remedy that,

I'm not looking die a character cav bus, more of a combat res unit that can hammer n overwhelm n still win combat after the first round. Also idl if your familiar with the point difference but silver helms are a sad sad display of cavalry compared to dp, it's about 3 points more for a dragon prince you get +1 atk, ws, I, and leadership plus 2+ ward vs breathe and flaming, and you cab take a magic banner and item on the champ, there is no comparison between the two there

I'm unfamiliar with the term "chaff" what is that?

Cheers
Mike

With those swordmaster units only being 16 men, they are going to get shot down. Also only 4 need to be killed (every easy for 12+ archers) to test panic, and they will draw almost all the ranged attacks since they die so easily. You definately want some eagles in to get in agsint warmachines or shooters to prevent all those points in swordmasters from being wasted. Also I'd take out the dragon princes of caledor for Pheonix Guard, or if you want something fast go with Lion Chariots. The DPoC just cost way too many points, and they are essentially just calvary with a 2+Ward vs flaming attacks and 2 attacks. You may also want a bolt thrower to soften up any big scary monsters coming your way that are toughtness 6. Not really needed if you can get the Swordmasters in though.

I know Phoenix gaurd are awesome an dragon princes can be very hit or miss, I'm just surfing for more original army ideas that with the right playback cause alot of damage, as for being shot at I was thinking lore of light for phas protection I think it is?( Prot shooting spell.)

And as for the size of the SM units I usually only run then 12-14 ..... Maybe the meta in my area is that much different, there's a big variety of armies but I can't say my SM get pin cushioned every time, they get attention sure but it's rare j don't get there with anything n in my other lists I only have 1-2 units of the smaller ones :s

The big reason I want the DP is the couple times I tried out the battlebanner combat res stack unit it's pulled off quite nicely. That 2+ ward has come in handy on a lot of occasions though, if someone rolls anvil of vaul hill or my favorite is a big block of chosen made to be bunker busters w the flamming banner gets charged by dpoc , the look on the chaos guys face is a little priceless lol

My DP's have earned their points back every game I've taken them.
But I only run 5 with a musician, so 160 points isn't too hard to earn back with 10 WS5 S5 attacks on top of the 5 horse attacks.

14 is the optimal SM size if you are running Lore of Life since you can regrowth any that die before combat or during it. They should be the target of that spell 90% of the time if they have suffered any wounds. 14 gives you 2x7, meaning you are getting corner attacks against any 100mm wide unit. At 2x8 you've got 2 models that can't attack and cost 30 points to give you 2 wounds that you can recover anyway.

Personally I love Dragon Princes' and when I did play HE I used a DP bus. There are a couple changes that I would probably make though.

The Prince I would kit out with:

Prince
-Elven Steed
-Barding
-Dragon Armor
-Shield
-Giant Blade (+3 str)
-Temakor's Gauntlets (6+AS, 5+ Ward vs Str4 or higher)
-Potion of Foolhardiness

Mage I would kit out like so:

Archmage
-Lv4
-Sivler Wand
-Talisman of Saphery
-Folariath's Robe's

BSB I would maybe go with something like this:

Noble
-Dragon Armor
-Elven Steed
-Barding
-Ogre Blade (+2 Str)
-Charmed Shield
-Iron Curse Icon

I would also add a Lv1 or Lv2 with something like this:

Mage
-Lv1 or Lv2
-Elven Steed
-Crown of Command or Sacred Incense (-1 to shooting at unit)

I would give the Lv4 Life, with 5 spells you have a good chance at getting the important ones. With the other mage I would go with beasts for Wyssan's or a chance at Savage Beasts of Horrors'

Not much is different but I believe it would add more of a punch to the Knight Bus, ensuring that you have continuous Str 6/7 attacks after the charge. They are also stubborn or harder to hit with ranged attacks, and you have a force multiplier in the mage. Ensuring you have the last two with the additional mage with the knights.

I would also drop the Sword Masters to being 14 strong, hopefully you can find the points for the mage that way.

As far as the spearmen, I would look at replacing their banner with Gleaming Pendant (1 re-roll of a failed leadership) as I find that this is very useful when away from your BSB. I would also change The Gem of Courage to The Amulet of Light (making all the attacks from the DP Bus to magical).

Just food for thought

Grix.

The term Chaff refers to throwaway units that you expect to be destroyed but use as speed bumps or similar.

My comment about using a SH bus instead for character delivery is that with DPs you pay 7pts more per models (and lots more for the champ, etc) which is very points inefficient if you are sticking a couple of characters in the front rank. This leads to the expensive DPs that you paid for being pushed to the back rank where they only get one attack - the same as SHs. The idea therefore is to use SHs as a character bus - same save and cheaper than DPs whilst using DPs as a shock unit without characters as you lose so much in terms of efficiency and attacks when you displace the DP models from the front rank. This is often why you see DPs played in small 5 man units with only a musician. They are still cheap(ish) at this size and do not suffer from the problems of losing attacks when you rank up or costing a premium. The other issue is that in the character bus the CC lord will put out most of the hurt anyway so the extra attacks from the bodyguard unit aren't worth as much. The loss of the SH unit champ to a suicide challenge accepted to protect the characters is also less of an issue as the SH champ is half the cost of the DP champ.

Very little able bodies on the list, imo - and by able I mean resistant and/or expendable. The huge spearmen block won't do you much good, for example, as it'll be a nightmare to manoeuver - i'd rather have split it between say 2x30 blocks or 2x25 spearmen blocks + some archers or something along those lines.

The BSB would be better suit with Banner of Sorcery rather than Battle, would make you save points for some more bodies. Jewel of the Dusk would be redundant, and why not the Talisman of Saphery, like Grix said?