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Hey all! So this is my problem. I play almost all of my games with this one person, (too far from GW to go there for games) who plays Blood Angels. Of my last 4 games with him, I've only beaten him once, and that was with 'nids. (I got paroxysm off on his 500 point death company and cleaned them up with hive tyrant and tyrant guard). Most games are 2,000 points, and we proxy like mad, so take that into account. Also, we usually do a mix of 5th ed and 6th ed because 6th ed has some really, really stupid rules, but next game we are trying to go only 6th. I've tried a few strategies, but they haven't seemed to work. Luckily he almost always uses the same army, so I'll post it below and see what you guys think of it! Thanks in advance!!


Blood Angels

HQ:

Mephiston
notes: funnily enough, hasn't done anything due to really bad reserve rolls, but just waiting for him to smash me to death D:

Chaplin
notes: takes this only when running his ball of doom, making it hurt. More on this later

Elites:

x2 Sanguinary Priests
notes: screw these guys. Power armor is annoying enough, but FNP??? My flashlights are useless.

Librarian furioso in drop pod
notes: hasn't used this much recently, but drops it in and blood lances side armor of tanks D:

Troops:

2 Blocks of 10 Assault marines each, 4 melta pistols in one squad (or 2 in each i forget)
notes: All around annoying; rape me; MELTAS IN PISTOL FORM???; he combat squads the melta pistols so he can fire bolt pistols at my guys and the meltas at my tanks

Da Blob of Death: 10 Death Company, 4 power swords,
notes: only taken when going with blob of death army, also death company dreadnought

Fast Attack:

Stormraven, plasma cannons, multi-meltas
notes: only with blob of death, sticks all his death company crap in it, flat outs into my deployment zone turn 1, then proceeds to gak on me

Heavy support:

~1 land raider, 1 vindicator, 1 predator
notes: not a huge problem, but still piss me off >

My List:

HQ

CCS, Creed, astropath, officer of the fleet, x3 plasma guns

Elites

Marbo

Troops

PCS, x3 meltas
-10 guardsmen
-10 guardsmen
-10 guardsmen
-Special weapons squad, x3 plasma guns
-- Chimera

x2 Veterans, x3 plasma each
- x2 chimera

Fast Attack

Vendetta

Heavy support

Lemen Russ Squadron (outflanking)

Battle Tank, meltas, lascannon
Demolisher,
Executioner, plamsa cannons,

(separate) Lemen Russ Demolisher


If you want me to post my list I will. (edit: see above) Note that this isn't his exact list, but it's pretty darn close. THANKS IN ADVANCE!!


Sincerely,
A Tactical Genius

First off, welcome to dakka.

Second, we have no idea what your list looks like, so we can't really help.

Third, we don't even know what rules you guys play if you say you don't play 6th or 5th. What did you change?

Well we now play with 6th edition rules, but starting out we used a mix, sorry the confusion! I'll update my first post with my list!
Thanks!

I see no terminators so I call: BATTLECANNONS. These ignroe the armor and the FNP of the blood angels. 150 points each with AV14 casing.

The landraider can be a problem, since he has no other mech in there you could use some deep striking storm troopers with melta to pop it open on turn two. Follow this up with a BATTLECANNON shot.

You can also use the LR executioner, 5 plasma blasts wrecks marines up pretty bad, but I think ignoring 3+ armor and FNP is all you need.

Oh storm ravens are jokes. A couple of vendettas can handle that and pump out damage or throw plasma vets into positions where your opponent won't get any cover save.

Ok, will do. Storm ravens are only annoying because they can go flat out, disembark his death company doom squad + dreadnought, and then is death company can assault. Also, should I outflank Vendetta or deploy it normally?

 CREEEED!!!! wrote:
Ok, will do. Storm ravens are only annoying because they can go flat out, disembark his death company doom squad + dreadnought, and then is death company can assault. Also, should I outflank Vendetta or deploy it normally?

Firstly: the storm raven can't do that. If it's flying it can skies of blood the DC out, but they can't assault. If it's acting as a skimmer, they can't disembark if the transport moved more than 6" - quite clearly states in the rules.

Secondly: Outflank a vendetta? What? No such rule for Vendettas.

Scout confers outflank for vendetta.

 Warboss Brokentoof wrote:
Scout confers outflank for vendetta.

The latest FAQ:

Q: What effect, if any, does the Scout special rule have on a Valkyrie or
Vendetta? Will this allow it to enter play in Turn 1 by redeploying 6"
onto the board? (p56)
A: It has no effect.

Your CCS is a weird build.

Creed is fine, 3 plasma guns is fine, but I wouldnt bother with the astropath & OotF. Yes, they're good to manipulate enemy reserve rolls, but for their price you could buy a chimera, allowing those plasma guns & creeds orders to be a bit more mobile & provide support where its most needed on the board.

Also, your PCS has no chimera, but has meltaguns which are very short ranged, but without a transport not very mobile. Why not give the PCS the plasma guns so they have a threat radius of 24 and the give the special weapons squad the meltas because they're more easily able to close with the enemy.

WOW i didnt even realize that about the vendetta and outflanking, I figured it couldnt move the 6 but i thought it could outflank, thats slightly depressing now lol. But anyways for your list i suggest running the barebones LRBT. sponsons are not worth the bs1 and the lascannon at bs1 isnt worth it either.

I would have your demolishers outflank as it has the shorter range and wont be able to fire turn 1 where as the battle tank will and the exectioner probably can. so have the LRBT and the executioner chilling back as some protection for your HQ.

The lone 3 infantry squads with no upgrades is bothering me, what is your strategy with them. Drop the SWS and give the chimera to the CCS so they have better protection. then give your infantry squads the plasma guns from the SWS so they will be a little more threatening when your opponent gets close.

I would drop the officer of the fleet for points maybe the stropath if needed.

Now with the officer of the fleet, SWS, melta sponsons and lascannon(from LRBT) gone you should add more troops or something more for creed to issue orders too. Creed is more for issueing orders and it doesnt seem like you have much infantry for that.

Ok, I'm going to be brutally honest here, but outflanking leman russes is usually a REALLY bad idea. You want your tanks to be farther away from the enemy, not actively trying to get closer (unless its a punisher or demolisher of course) Outflanking leaves them alone and unprotected, begging to get annihilated. Adding onto that, by having them all with different loadouts screws their damage output, as whenever you shoot, you may waste shots from one tank or another. If you want to use Creed's abilities on tanks, I would actually squad up the pair of demolishers, and use the scout move to give them a free 6" move straight at the enemy. Gives them a critical burst of speed, and can let them close the distance on that critical first turn. Keep your executioner and Leman Russ in the back to be protected by the platoon, and they'll serve you well there.

Speaking of the platoon, have you thought of putting, you know, anything on them? Heavy weapons, special weapons, really anything would be better than just lasguns. At the bare minimum, take the 30pts you're spending on multimeltas for the leman russ and use them to buy an autocannon for each squad. The multimeltas will always have to snapshoot if you fire the battlecannon, and since you want to stay back, they'll rarely be used. By using those 30pts to get your infantry autocannons, they can contribute to the game as they bubble wrap your tanks. You could even pull the lascannon from the russ (as they removed lumbering behemoth forcing it to snap shoot as well) and give each squad a cheap special weapon like a sniper rifle or flamer. You could also invest the 15pts in a regimental standard if Creed is chilling with the infantry.

Thanks for the feedback!
Soon i will update my list with your ideas.

-I usually just have the infantry squads there for being annoying, acting as a screen, or just slowing the blood angels down.

-Will put command squad in chimera, as well as drop the OoF and the astropath

-Maybe krak missles in my infantry squads??

-Deploying tanks normally, not outflanking (and thanks with the clarity on the vendetta stuff, don't know 40k rules as well as i know WHF 7th ed. (SCREW YOU 8TH ED!))

Thanks,
A Tactical Genius

Just swap out the outflanking LR, to a squadron of 3 LRBTs. Keep them behind your meatshield guardsmen. I would also consider swapping out that lone demolisher for the executioner. Get rid of creed and run two CCS filled with x4 pllasma guns each instead. get rid of the SWS, and just put the 3 plasma guns in your infantry squads (also consider giving the inf. squads a HWT each for more damage output, auto/lascannons).

Set up as far back as you can, and use the infantry as screeners for the assault squads. Whittle them down as they trudge across the board.

I'd suggest and defense line w/ Icarus pattern las cannon (85 pts) with veteran behind iit. If they need to go to ground for the 2+ cover save, ave creed order them back in the fight on his leadership. The las cannon has the sky fire and intercept rules so it can either shoot at ground targets or flyers (which the storm talon turned in to in the new edition of the rules).

Yeah, your killing power looks REALLY low. That's extra bad against an extra-survivable army like BA. I'd highly recommend ditching creed and the pointless outflanking russ squad. Actually, I'd recommend dumping the russes altogether. Against that kind of a BA list, they're more expensive, without being more survivable. If you really must use russes, take a naked LRBT, or at most a naked demolisher.

Because you've got to use those points to get some GUNS, boy. 12 plasma guns might sound like a lot, but not for the points level you're looking at. Plus, there are a lot of great anti-meq things you could throw down here, like stormtroopers and colossuses and respawning conscripts (100 lasgun shots will beat FNP 3+ eventually, even if you have to refresh them a couple of times), and basilisks (now without minimum range!). Your list has none of this, because it just doesn't have the points to do it.

Fixing your HS slots will help a lot.