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I got wrangled into a game by my friend against a visitor at my FLGS.

It was my Tau with my friends Orks against the visitors CSM.

I shoot with some Ork Lootas a unit of 9 Noise Marines and a (I think) Chaos Champion. Its the HQ from the Dark Vengeance set. With many shots I hit a bunch of times and cause a decent amount of wounds.

He then rolled saves, which he failed 4.

Here is the point, he started pulling models from the front, like he is supposed to, BUT after he first two, the closest was the Chaos Champion, and he said that because his save was different, 2+ instead of 3+, he got to reroll the wounds again.

I let him do it, because I figured it was something from the new CSM 'dex, but was that allowed?

No, not at all. Mixed armour saves applies (because there is a character, but it would anyway) and so you roll Look out sir! rolls *before* making saves.

There is no natural way, without rolling one of the Chaos Boons, that a model can reroll armour saves.

Ideally, he should have rolled a wound pool for the guys in front first.

So, two saves for the two guys in front. If any survive, allocate another one wound to the survivor(s), until they both die. Basically, the guys in the front keep taking the hits until they die.

Then allocate to the Champion, one by one, until the champion dies. Once the champion is dead, proceed as normal.

In other words, you don't roll for the entire group, then roll for the champion as an additional roll. It's also not legal to roll for the guys behind the champion, before you've rolled for the champion.

(Note, this doesn't take into consideration Look Out Sir, which just allows the Champion to bounce a wound to the closest model before he attempts a save).

mixed saves. he would have to allocate wounds first to the closet model then take the save on that one, then the next, then champion. he could then look out sir on him if he wanted. if you shot him with different strengths, aps or specials rules he can allocate which one he is saving on his models in whatever order he wants.

BRB 15.

So it was (sort of) OK for him to reroll the two wounds when he got the Champion, because the model has a different save, and he has the option of using Look Out, Sir!

Is that right?

EDIT: Because he found to roll them separately in the first place.

FenixZero wrote:
So it was (sort of) OK for him to reroll the two wounds when he got the Champion, because the model has a different save, and he has the option of using Look Out, Sir!

Is that right?

EDIT: Because he found to roll them separately in the first place.

No, it is not ok to reroll any saves, unless you have a rule that allows it. After the 2 marines died he could attempt to LOS the wounds from the Champion. But he cannot just roll all his saves at once.

FenixZero wrote:
So it was (sort of) OK for him to reroll the two wounds when he got the Champion, because the model has a different save, and he has the option of using Look Out, Sir!

Is that right?

EDIT: Because he found to roll them separately in the first place.

You have to Look Out Sir BEFORE you make armour saves. You then attempt save the ones you've failed - and the models you bumped the successful Look Out Sir wounds onto take their saves.

Look out Sir itself is only going to trigger on a 4+, so it's a different "save" value by itself.

The only pool rolling you do in mixed saves, is for all the identical save models right before the model(s) with the different save. Repeat.

There is a relevant entry in the FAQ that functionally changes the way LOS works from how it's stated in the rulebook.

Make sure you show that to the guy if you play him again. He isnt allowed to do what he did.

OK, now I understand.

It felt wrong at the time, but I'm still learning the rules.

It sounds like he messed up, because he should have rolled each guy till they died and not rolled them all at the same time. Realizing his mistake the only fair thing he could do is let those guys die and re-roll the saves on the IC. It's hard to tell though from one point of view, but it seemed like the fairest way to resolve the issue especially since he had a 2+ save instead of trying to save the other 2 guys by putting any 2's rolled on the IC.