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HQ

Haemie- liquifier gun, venom blade

Troops

2×10 wracks- 2 liquifier guns in raiders

2×10 kabals- SC

Elites

4 incubi in venom w/ 2 SC's

Fast attack

6 reavers- 2 HL's

4 beastmasters- 5 khymera, 6 razorwings

Heavy support

3 ravagers w/ NS

Total: 1477pts

Dont really know what to do with the extra points, might give the haemie shattershard or the reavers cluster claptraps. So basic strategy is to run the wracks up as fast as possible along with the beasts, reavers, and incubi who will have the haemie, while the kabals stay back with the ravagers and hold rear objectives and take pot shots. I would have loved to include the baron in this list seeing as it's more cc in nature having the first turn could really help, plus his cover bonous would of been nice for the beasts too, but alas the points would not permit me. However I have come up with a 2000pt version of the list which does include him:

HQ

Baron

Haemie- liquifier gun, venom blade

Troops

2×10 wracks- 2 liquifier guns in raiders

2×10 kabals- SC

Elites

2×4 blasterborn in venoms w/ 2 SC's

4 incubi in venom w/ 2 SC's

Fast attack

6 reavers- 2 HL's

5 beastmasters- 10 khymera, 6 razorwings

Heavy support

3 ravagers w/ NS

Really like the look of the second list, but I usually play at 1500pts so im not sure when i'll be able to use it :/ please let me know what you think

You look a bit light on AT.

I dont think the Incubi are needed, as you have a beast pack for CC power. Combined with the baron you will have grenades and the razorwings cover the AP2 with rending.

Instead of the incubi, if you take 5 wytches with HWG's in your venom, you could take the baron with points to spare in the 1500 list.

I would also split your reavers into 2 squads of 3 because you have the 3rd Fast attack slot open. Gives you more options with bladevanes and heat lance delivery.

First list
I'd consider dropping one of the kabalites and put them on a raider, then use the points to may be buy another unit if possible. From my experience(and I play on slightly smaller table), footslogging units just can't keep up with the rest of the army. Let's say you want to assault an unit that requires some softening u- oh wait, they aren't in range. Now what you have done is that you have a terribly squishy unit that is useless when they're needed, so your opponent can take out what is of more immediate threat, then ...well, I was gonna say point all their guns, but 10 warriors with no PT, even with cover saves, aren't gonna take much of an effort... Now if they were on a raider, they could move with the rest of the army and provide whatever support they're needed for, on time.

Also lack of grenades mean if you play on a terrain heavy table, your opponent could hide in terrains and being that you're fielding mainly an assault army, you'd be really in a disadvantage if you charge them.

Second list
A much better list, I agree. But again with the footslogging warriors. We really don't do objective holding that well, how hard do you think it is to take down 10 T3 models with pathetic armours and no FNP?

But at the end, if you like to give objective holding a try, I'd say go for it. A lot of things can make or break a list, and that is way outside of what an outsider, like myself, can comment on.

Dr. Serling wrote:You look a bit light on AT.

I dont think the Incubi are needed, as you have a beast pack for CC power. Combined with the baron you will have grenades and the razorwings cover the AP2 with rending.

Instead of the incubi, if you take 5 wytches with HWG's in your venom, you could take the baron with points to spare in the 1500 list.

I would also split your reavers into 2 squads of 3 because you have the 3rd Fast attack slot open. Gives you more options with bladevanes and heat lance delivery.

not quite sure if your math is right as replacing the incubi with hwg wyches would only free up 40pts. Please let me know if im missing something

Baronyu wrote:First list
I'd consider dropping one of the kabalites and put them on a raider, then use the points to may be buy another unit if possible. From my experience(and I play on slightly smaller table), footslogging units just can't keep up with the rest of the army. Let's say you want to assault an unit that requires some softening u- oh wait, they aren't in range. Now what you have done is that you have a terribly squishy unit that is useless when they're needed, so your opponent can take out what is of more immediate threat, then ...well, I was gonna say point all their guns, but 10 warriors with no PT, even with cover saves, aren't gonna take much of an effort... Now if they were on a raider, they could move with the rest of the army and provide whatever support they're needed for, on time.

Also lack of grenades mean if you play on a terrain heavy table, your opponent could hide in terrains and being that you're fielding mainly an assault army, you'd be really in a disadvantage if you charge them.

Second list
A much better list, I agree. But again with the footslogging warriors. We really don't do objective holding that well, how hard do you think it is to take down 10 T3 models with pathetic armours and no FNP?

But at the end, if you like to give objective holding a try, I'd say go for it. A lot of things can make or break a list, and that is way outside of what an outsider, like myself, can comment on.

thanks for the advice I may just get rid of the kabals and get either another large wrack squad or maybe a couple small ones with a hexrifle. The reason I had the kabals footsloging is that for whatever reason 10 man squads of footsloging kabals never get shot at when I field them. I think its because their too small to pose a threat compared to the rest of the army, but a little too big to Wipe out without dedicating a decent amount of firepower to get rid of, as a result their ignored for the entire game unless their the last units standing. I know it doesnt make much sense but it works, also I dont really like putting them in raiders, because its seems like a lot of points for a unit that will on avg. only deal roughly 5 wounds.

I don't know, I think that's an illusion of durability rather than them being actually a durable unit. They survive not because they're marines/necrons good, but because your opponent are purposefully ignoring an unit that isn't doing much, it really isn't gonna be hard for them to shoot the warriors out, since we don't have ATSKNF or fearless, and ld8 can/does break at times, for example, 10 bolters at 24" will on average take out 3 or so warriors after a common 5+ cover save, and how often you see marines running with only 10 bolters? They'd have some proper AI/AT weapons packed in usually. But the main problem is that they can't do anything even if your main force needs their shooting to soften the enemy unit(s), because they're just so far back, giving them a raider is so that they can keep up with the force. And I think your maths is a bit off.

22 poisoned shots at 12", no rack. SC on assault profile because you'd be moving to keep your jinks save.
22 shots - 14.67 hits - 7.33 wounds
5+ save - 7.33 unsaved
5++ - 4.89 unsaved
4+ - 3.67 unsaved
3+ - 2.44 unsaved
2+ - 1.221 unsaved

You've gotta remember while the numbers are, obviously, going down as the saves get better, units with better saves tend to be of smaller size, so being able to take out 2.44 from a MEQ unit actually isn't all that bad. Obviously, on a whole, I'd prefer venoms over gunboats, but if you were to field warriors to the number of 10, then I'd say gunboat is much better for the cost.

Sorry for not being clear, I was averaging their wounds outside of rapid fire range due to the fact that Kabals in rapid fire range in my experiences are dead kabals, and our av 10 transports dont do much to prevent that, which is why I dont use gunboats. I dont condemn anyone who does use gunboats, because everyone has their own play style, and have different things that work for them. I just think that if I'm going to risk my troops getting that close I would prefer having a unit thats a bit tougher and hits harder like wracks, but again thats just my preference.