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So I took the plunge a while back and bought a lizardmen army. I got busy and never even had the chance to finish putting them together.

Now that I've finished school, I think I'll have the time to actually build/play the army. Unfortunately, I have no idea what I'm doing.


Things I have that I can remember off the top of my head:

2x Lizardmen Battleforce
1x Kroq-Gar
1x Stegadon

I think that about sums it up, I mainly just remember having a ton of Saurus Warriors and Skinks.


So after looking at the basics of tactics there was one that stood out to me as an overall strategy that I like to use in other games and know I have a bit of a knack for. That's the pinchers tactic where you have a strong defensive center and fast offensive flanks. However, I've heard that the Saurus riders are pretty bad for their points. I don't plan on being competitive, but would prefer to build a list that doesn't make my strategy impossible to pull off.

I can't buy a ton more models (think ~$100), so please try to stay within what I have. However, if I do need to get more you now know how much I can get.


With all that in mind and if the dakka gods are willing, could you please help me come up with an escalation list that I can use to learn the game. I don't know standard point values for WHFB, so armies that are roughly the size of 40k's 500, 1000, 1500, and 2000 point games is the closest I comparison I can make.

I wouldnt bother with Kroq-Gar, he's awesome but you are going to be better off with a Slaan Mage-Priest, and maybe a skink shaman or 2 since he can channel through them to get range and they aren't too expensive. Lizardmen generally have exceptional luck in magic phases. Kroq-Gar will give you a lot of points, but you can kit out a Mage-Priest to be pretty nasty, it may cost a bit of points, but they are actually going to be well spent, since he can get a nice ward save as well as the ability to ignore miscasts(the bane of all things magic). Not to mention you can toss in a bunch of temple guard (which you already have) to protect him fairly decently. Also temple guard are worth the points as they hit hard and take a bit of abuse before they cease to exist.

With that said Saurus knights aren't the most effective calvary in the game, they are good but for their price they are point sink that can be spent else where. They are great for beginning players though since you can play a larger game to see what direction you want to go in with the local competition. Though I don't think having 5 hanging around with to possibly flank someone every couple games is a bad idea either, I just personally don't use them unless its a game over 2500pts.

Lizardmen run best with 6 salamander's, 2 packs of 3. This is really horrid on a budget since 1 runs about 27.95 USD/ea and you don't get the 4th handler in the blister(though you may not even want to incluse a 4th). But salamanders are massively powerful units, that can cook entire regiments if all 3 in the pack hit. With that said they are also a fairly low point per model. Not to mention any warhammer player loves throwing down multiple templates in the same phase, and no one likes with it happens to them.

Razordons are decent as well(same price per unit), but since they may roll poorly on their number of shots fired, or extremely good, you can't count on them to produce reliable results.

Lastly kroxigors are pretty amazing, and are common to find on ebay for a significantly lower price than the gw price of about 22.50USD/ea?, not exactly sure how much they are. I got 6 the other day for 32 GBP(roughly 52$ american), so something to keep in mind.

I don't have my book on me, since im at work but I would gladly give you some input on an escalation list if you would like. But the general information I tossed out should give you a good idea of some things to look around and plan with.

I had heard that about Kroq-Gar, but I love the model and Carnosaurs are pretty much the coolest thing in WHFB imho.

Good to know about the salamanders, razordons, and kroxigors. I'll start watching ebay and see what I can find, but I know that what I need asap is a frog.

Thank you for the help though, and I'm looking forward to the escalation lists later.

An Oldblood on a Carnasaur isn't bad. He's just not as mind-bogglingly, idiotically good as a Slann Mage Priest. If you really wanted to, you could do up a decent monster-mash kind of army. Not the best, but still viable.

I'd kit out a nice, tough Old Blood (off-hand, I'd say...Berserker's Sword, Trickster's Helm, Glyph Necklace), get a Skink Chief BSB on a Stegadon, and a Priest or two.
Add in s'more Stegadons and some Salamanders, and you'd be giving your opponent a lot of Big targets to reckon with. Chameleon Skinks can take down war machines to protect your guys, and a few blocks of Saurus can provide ranks to negate Steadfast.

@Warpsolution, that's a very good point on the Chameleon skinks, I like those alot and they are very effective, also don't they have the sniper special rule making character hunting a lot easier? It has been a while since I've fielded them.

I personally have had better luck with the terradon riders since they get a vanguard and are fast cav(though most lizardmen players tend to hate these things). Not to mention when they fly over they drop boulders, makes not only taking a warmachine out fairly simple, but can add a bit of fun that your opponent has to watch out for, especially on a lower toughness unit. Though the boulders will never do amazing damage, it's still cute and can be frustrating.

Regardless of terradon riders or chameleon skinks, it comes down to prefferance and the amount of points you are willing to sink into an auxilary unit that you will inevitably get killed in the course of the game. Chameleons being cheaper, very predictable once placed on the table, but most likely to get the result you placed them on the table to begin with, but they probably won't be able to achieve more than 1 result for you.

Where as Terradon Riders, more expensive, have a more extensive movement range and vanguard. They are also are very unpredicatable, and they have a bit more survivability. The problem is since they come from in front of your opponent, and aren't armoured, usually present an easy target to shoot at and get a desired effect from. Though if they get behind the opponent they tend to do a lot more damage, and are capable of rolling through more than 1 warmachine or archery battery.

On the subject of the Oldblood on Carnosaur, yes they own. But using a few lvl 2 skink priest's can become your undoing at times. Yes they can pack a very nasty punch and are great fun to play with. You still find yourself fighting an uphill battle in your offensive and defensive magic phases without a level 4 caster, unless the winds of magic dice fall in your favor. Inevitably you will have spells hurting you with a lvl 4, just as well as having a few level 2's can result in some great offensive magic phases. They just become less likely. The other thing is skink priests are bunkered in by other skinks presenting easy kill targets, not to mention the horrible possibility of a miscast slaughting them and all the skinks around them. Though if in a stegadon, problem solved as far as blowing everything up around you. Where as a slaan can negate said problem of a miscast but, if not atleast he can withstand the wound, and the templeguard around him are a bit more resolute though most things around a miscast tend to die a horribly painfun and untimely death.

Overall regardless of what you like, you can make it work. It just tends to be in tournaments people are less likey to neglect magic then they are a CC melee smash character.

@Tookyflakes: Chameleons don't have Sniper (that would make them the best thing in the book, no question).
Terradon riders are...30pts for T3, W2, and a, what 5+ save? They're not too good at killing war machines, since they'd have to get into close combat and maybe even lose a model (depending on the army whose machine it is). They're not the absolute trash I once thought they were, but they're still not very good.
Chameleons are the 2nd best unit in the book. With 12 shots in a unit of 6, that's an average of 2 wounds a turn. For 72pts. The Mathhammer, I'm sure, favors the Chameleons, even without considering how they're more survivable (-1 to Hit, Scout, and more Wounds/pt).

The difference between a lvl2 and a lvl4 is 2 spells, 50 more points of item allowance, and +2 to cast/dispel, which is almost one die.
A Slann is better than an Oldblood, every time. But that's because (1) casters are better than combatants right now and (2) Slann are too good. 4 is greater than 2, 4+2 is greater than 2+2. We know.
The other thing is, I'd suggest running Priests with Skink Skirmishers, for their fragility. And as far as Miscasts go, I think everyone else would infinitely prefer losing 12 Skinks than even half that in Temple Guard. T2 to T4 doesn't matter against S6 and up.

Yeah, tournaments don't see many Combat-Lords. But my point is that it'd be possible to put up a decent fight with one. A Slann would be better, but you won't auto-lose with the big monster.

Ya sniper would be just insane. Maybe next update... LOL. The reason I like the terradons is just preferance, and as of recently I've been playing alot of brets so the cav thing is wearing off into my other armies a bit.

As far as the Slaan goes it not always just 2 spells, Since a slaan must take 1-4 Disciplines of the ancients. So he can be a lore master for free, if you take nothing else. Also he has the selection of any lore in the game. This is a huge advantage since Lore of Shadow is just that much better than every lore in the game atm, other than maybe death(death just is generally too short range to comfortably use with a caster, but thats what temple guard are for) Though the channel ability only works for magic missles, this can heighten the potency of death or any lore for that matter. Though the ignore miscaster is a 1 use item for 45 points that works on a 2+ it still an option though maybe not the best. The biggest impact with a slaan is how he saps away the magic from enemy wizards. Becalming Cogitation is amazing.

Thanks a lot for the suggestions Tooky and Warp. I have yet to even play a game so most of it kind of went over my head, but it will all make a lot more sense when I play.

I don't have the book or anything in front of me right now, but is there any way to take both a slaan and a combat-lord?

So for the 500 point list, though it may not be to great it will touch on some key components you will need for higher lists and really get you set up. I have inlcuded lists for 2250 and 2500 since in my experiance in progression leagues a lot of them stop at 2250, or 2500. The real problem for lizardmen with progression lists is, it is very hard to fit in an engine of the gods since its 290 points for the skink priest and most of the jumps wont faciliate this because since you are starting out slow and small getting in the slaan is a much bigger concern, though you can rework it if you see it being required. I normally don't use one but especially against daemons undead and woodelves it can be a huge help, so that would be something you'd have to decide for yourself if you know that your league contains a lot of players using these said armies. In which case you'd have to facilitate this in the 1500-2000 point jump as at 1500 points you will be over the 25% in heros allotment, with a minimal skink priest being lvl 2 and only carrying a dispell scroll. I also made sure to give all the salamanders extra handlers because a misfire can kill the entire crew if you are unfortunate, this will save some problems for you in the long run and make them misfiring a little less horrible.

Lords
-None

Heros
-Skink Priest, level 2, dispell scroll 125 pts

Core
-Saurus Warriors x10, FC 140pts
-Skink Skirmishers x 11 Brave 83 pts (can put the priest in for protection)

Special
Chameleon Skins x 6 72 pts

Rare
Salamander Hunting Pack x1 (i had 5 extra points left so I put an additional handler in) 80pts

Total 500

1000 Pts list.

Lords
-None

Heros
-Skink Priest, level 2, dispell scroll 125 pts

Core
-Saurus Warriors x30, spears FC 390pts
-Skink Skirmishers x 14 Brave 104 pts
-Skinks x12 w/ 1 Kroxigor FC 142 pts

Special
Chameleon Skins x 6 72pts

Rare
Salamander Hunting Pack x2 w/ handlers 160pts

Total 993

1500
Lords
Slaan Mage Preist, Focus of Mystery (Lore Master) Cube of Darkness, Blood Statue of Spite 340

Heros
-Skink Priest, level 2, dispell scroll 125 pts

Core
-Saurus Warriors x30, spears FC 390pts
-Skink Skirmishers x 14 Brave 104 pts
-Skinks x12 w/ 1 Kroxigor FC 142 pts

Special
Chameleon Skins x 6 72pts
Temple Guard x10, musician 167 pts

Rare
Salamander Hunting Pack x2 w/ handlers 160pts

Total 1500

1000 Pts list.

Lords
-None

Heros
-Skink Priest, level 2, dispell scroll 125 pts

Core
-Saurus Warriors x30, spears FC 390pts
-Skink Skirmishers x 14 Brave 104 pts
-Skinks x12 w/ 1 Kroxigor FC 142 pts

Special
Chameleon Skins x 6 72pts

Rare
Salamander Hunting Pack x2 w/ handlers 160pts

Total 993

2000
Lords
Slaan Mage Preist, Focus of Mystery (Lore Master) Cube of Darkness, Blood Statue of Spite, BSB, Sun Standard of Chotec 405

Heros
-Skink Priest, level 2, dispell scroll 125 pts

Core
-Saurus Warriors x30, spears FC 390pts
-Skink Skirmishers x 14 Brave 104 pts
-Skinks x12 w/ 1 Kroxigor FC 142 pts

Special
Chameleon Skins x 6 72pts
Temple Guard x21, FC 371 pts

Rare
Salamander Hunting Pack x3 w/ handlers 240pts
Salamander Hunting Pack x2 150

Total 1999

2250
Lords
Slaan Mage Preist, Focus of Mystery (Lore Master) Cube of Darkness, Blood Statue of Spite, BSB, Sun Standard of Chotec 405

Heros
-Skink Priest, level 2, dispell scroll 125 pts

Core
-Saurus Warriors x30, spears FC 390pts
-Skink Skirmishers x 14 Brave 104 pts
-Skinks x18 w/ 2 Kroxigor FC 227 pts

Special
Chameleon Skins x 6 72pts
Chameleon Skins x 6 72pts
Temple Guard x21, FC 371 pts

Rare
Salamander Hunting Pack x3 w/ handlers 240pts
Salamander Hunting Pack x3 w/ handlers 240pts

Total 2246

2000
Lords
Slaan Mage Preist, Focus of Mystery (Lore Master) Cube of Darkness, Blood Statue of Spite, BSB, Sun Standard of Chotec 405

Heros
-Skink Priest, level 2, dispell scroll 125 pts

Core
-Saurus Warriors x30, spears FC 390pts
-Skink Skirmishers x 14 Brave 104 pts
-Skinks x12 w/ 1 Kroxigor FC 142 pts

Special
Chameleon Skins x 6 72pts
Temple Guard x21, FC 371 pts

Rare
Salamander Hunting Pack x3 w/ handlers 240pts
Salamander Hunting Pack x2 150

Total 1999

2500
Lords
Slaan Mage Preist, Focus of Mystery (Lore Master) Cube of Darkness, Blood Statue of Spite, BSB, Sun Standard of Chotec 405

Heros
-Skink Priest, level 2, dispell scroll 125 pts

Core
-Saurus Warriors x30, spears FC 390pts
-Skink Skirmishers x 14 Brave 104 pts
-Skinks x21 w/ 2 Kroxigor FC 242 pts

Special
Chameleon Skins x 6 72pts
Chameleon Skins x 6 72pts
Temple Guard x21, FC 371 pts
Stegadon 235 pts

Rare
Salamander Hunting Pack x3 w/ handlers 240pts
Salamander Hunting Pack x3 w/ handlers 240pts

Total 2496


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For a slaan and a combat lord, the slaan would have to be fairly minimal, more so than the one in the progression list. You can make it happen but with all those points in lords, you will be losing points in a lot of other places, also the game would have to be 2250+ pts to really make it even worth while.

You can totally run two Lords, as long as their total cost is 25% of your army or less. The problem is, the Carnasaur makes such a happening difficult, when your other option is at least 275pts. Games near the 3000pt mark are, if my memory serves, the only ones you'd be able to fit in both.

With a Carnosaur-Oldblood and a Priest, you could do an effective point-denial type list, where your opponent simply cannot kill enough stuff.

Let me make a quick point on the Slann. With zero upgrades, he's basically better than any other Wizard. I'd gladly trade my Grey Seer or Orc Shaman or Prophetess for a naked Slann. More wounds, a 4+ Ward, high Leadership and Cold-Blooded, and a free Discipline is an amazing deal for 275pts.
The thing is, adding more points to him only makes him even more awesome, so that's usually what people do.

You could run one with the Higher State of Conciousness so he's immune to non-magical attacks, then give him the BSB upgrade and the Crown of Command, to make him Stubborn and re-roll break tests.
Not only is he remarkably tough and a lvl4 caster, but now he can charge into combat with any unit your Old Blood doesn't feel like fighting, such as super elite units that could take him down, or really big units of weak guys not worth his time.

Its going to be about 3180pts to field a slaan and a carnosaur. Thats taking in bare naked Slaan and Oldblood, with only 165 magic items between the 2. No bsb upgrade ect. So to kit out, taking 4 disciplines 200 ppoints of magic items between the 2, 3920.