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So if my Winged DP (Chaos Daemon Dex) flies off the table and enter ongoing reserves, do he re-enter flying and from my board edge or can he deep strike back in?

Or some other thing happens.

ApFrot wrote:
So if my Winged DP (Chaos Daemon Dex) flies off the table and enter ongoing reserves, do he re-enter flying and from my board edge or can he deep strike back in?

Or some other thing happens.

Not sure at this time, however I'm leaning towards no unless the DP started in reserves.

Deep Strike states "must start the game in reserves" pg 36 BGB

I'm not really sure though.

He goes to Ongoing Reserves.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
He goes to Ongoing Reserves.

Did you even bother reading the question? Or just the title..

I think what Falcon means by that statement is, since we have established that the DP enters Ongoing Reserves whatever the ~Ongoing Reserves~ section in the BRB says to do when a flyer/FMC enters Ongoing reserves, is what happens.

Eldercaveman wrote:
I think what Falcon means by that statement is, since we have established that the DP enters Ongoing Reserves whatever the ~Ongoing Reserves~ section in the BRB says to do when a flyer/FMC enters Ongoing reserves, is what happens.

however the OP's opening question states they go into ongoing reserves. However it never tells us if they're allowed to DS in that section.

Besides, check out some of his other posts.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
I think what Falcon means by that statement is, since we have established that the DP enters Ongoing Reserves whatever the ~Ongoing Reserves~ section in the BRB says to do when a flyer/FMC enters Ongoing reserves, is what happens.

however the OP's opening question states they go into ongoing reserves. However it never tells us if they're allowed to DS in that section.

Besides, check out some of his other posts.

OR says to use the rules for Reserve. The rules for Reserve don't include an allowance to Deep Strike, so you cannot do so.
You can only Opt to Deep Strike at deployment.

I don't have a BRB with me but if someone does, could they please quote the ongoing reserves section. That is the answer. If it doesn't say you can deep strike, you can't deep strike.

Eldercaveman wrote:
I don't have a BRB with me but if someone does, could they please quote the ongoing reserves section. That is the answer. If it doesn't say you can deep strike, you can't deep strike.

Why would that be the answer, when the Deep Strike Rule says in order to DS "you must start the game in reserve" pg 36

So any unit can deep strike at any time so long as they started the game in reserves?

tired, misread

Deep Striking is something you declare at the start of the game when you place units in reserves.

Something reentering reserves doesn't give you permission to declare a Deep Strike.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Deep Striking is something you declare at the start of the game when you place units in reserves.

Something reentering reserves doesn't give you permission to declare a Deep Strike.

If you started the game in reserves I believe it does

they essentially follow the normal rules for reserves with the exception they come on the following turn.

If a unit enters reserves part way through the game, such as a Flyer leaving the battlefield, this is referred to as entering Ongoing reserves. Units entering ongoing reserves always re-enter play at the start of their controlling players following turn, but otherwise follow the normal rules for reserves. If a unit is in ongoing reserves when the game ends, it awards Victory points as if it had been destroyed



What i get from this is they must come in from your table edge. The reserves rules pg 124 states that "Models that are arriving by deepstrike or outflank deploy using there special rules. Ongoing reserves states normal rules for reserves.

Backlash wrote:
If a unit enters reserves part way through the game, such as a Flyer leaving the battlefield, this is referred to as entering Ongoing reserves. Units entering ongoing reserves always re-enter play at the start of their controlling players following turn, but otherwise follow the normal rules for reserves. If a unit is in ongoing reserves when the game ends, it awards Victory points as if it had been destroyed



What i get from this is they must come in from your table edge. The reserves rules pg 124 states that "Models that are arriving by deepstrike or outflank deploy using there special rules. Ongoing reserves states normal rules for reserves.

So , I have a question.

I have a unit of terminators in reserve and I choose to deep strike.
My turn 2 , they arrive ,but they scatter on enemy model ,and I roll the 6 result on the Mishap table . So they enter Ongoing reserves.

On your opinion, at the start of my next turn , they must re-enter play by moving from my table edge?

You made me do my homework this time, but i still would have to say yes. "this coming from a tyranid and a SM player" It comes down to splitting hairs between reserves, and on going reserves it is something that needs to be FAQ'd,

At the point your taking about, something obviously has not worked out the way you had intended. So while your terminators are alive, things are not going there way. I can see walking on being a GW intended punishment. "games GW has always made it a point to say that the mishap table is ment to be brutal" Another amusing fact, that i think supports this. Look at units that are immobile, and unable to walk on. Tyranid mycetic spores and SM drop pods. Both have special rules that make it impossible for them to suffer a deepstrike mishap. Again this is something that needs to be FAQ'd but as a player that uses both FMC' and Terminators it seems perfectly fair to me.

Backlash wrote:
You made me do my homework this time, but i still would have to say yes. "this coming from a tyranid and a SM player" It comes down to splitting hairs between reserves, and on going reserves it is something that needs to be FAQ'd,

At the point your taking about, something obviously has not worked out the way you had intended. So while your terminators are alive, things are not going there way. I can see walking on being a GW intended punishment. "games GW has always made it a point to say that the mishap table is ment to be brutal" Another amusing fact, that i think supports this. Look at units that are immobile, and unable to walk on. Tyranid mycetic spores and SM drop pods. Both have special rules that make it impossible for them to suffer a deepstrike mishap. Again this is something that needs to be FAQ'd but as a player that uses both FMC' and Terminators it seems perfectly fair to me.

It seems fair because your stuff works. That's not fair, that's Biased.
Guess no one read this part in reserves.

"Certain rare units are permanently immobile. If a unit like this cannot be deployed, or the player decides to keep it in reserve, it enters the game by Deep Strike."

Just adding to it that part of normal reserves are deepstrike, the only allowance we have other than this to deepstrike though is if we were not deployed.

What are you trying to argue? At no point in my post did i say anything that would keep any unit from deploying. It is a discussion on the ability of units that had previously deployed and entered reserves through some other means to perform a deepstrike. There is nothing biased about it. Read a few posts before mine and you will see the question i was trying to answer.

seems to me that unit from Codex Daemons will have to DS as that is their normal rules for deployment form Reserves.

Not sure the same applies for other Armies.

Backlash wrote:
What are you trying to argue? At no point in my post did i say anything that would keep any unit from deploying. It is a discussion on the ability of units that had previously deployed and entered reserves through some other means to perform a deepstrike. There is nothing biased about it. Read a few posts before mine and you will see the question i was trying to answer.

My bad, trying to post whilst making coffee/waking up.

40k-noob wrote:
seems to me that unit from Codex Daemons will have to DS as that is their normal rules for deployment form Reserves.

Not sure the same applies for other Armies.

I tentatively agree with this. Page 27 of the Daemon Codex says this

The remaining units are held in reserve and their arrival is rolled for as normal. When a unit becomes available, it enters play by Deep Strike.

Does this apply only to the wave that didn't arrive first turn? Or to any Daemon unit in reserves?

Reserves Pg 124
"When a Reserves unit arrives, it must move fully onto the table from the controlling player's own table edge... Models that are arriving by Deep Strike or Outflank deploy using their special rules..."

Ongoing Reserves pg 125
"Units in Ongoing Reserve always re-enter play at the start of their controlling player's following turn, but otherwise follow the normal rules for reserves."

Ongoing Reserves tells us to treat deploying from Ongoing Reserves in the same manner as if that unit is deploying from Reserves; which therefore allows arrival by deployment special rules like Deep Strike.

If a Flyer/FMC with Deep Strike flies off the board, it can arrive via Deep Strike on that player's following turn.
If a model/unit with Deep Strike suffers a mishap that sends it to Ongoing Reserve, it can arrive via Deep Strike on that player's following turn.

 triplare wrote:
Reserves Pg 124
"When a Reserves unit arrives, it must move fully onto the table from the controlling player's own table edge... Models that are arriving by Deep Strike or Outflank deploy using their special rules..."

Ongoing Reserves pg 125
"Units in Ongoing Reserve always re-enter play at the start of their controlling player's following turn, but otherwise follow the normal rules for reserves."

Ongoing Reserves tells us to treat deploying from Ongoing Reserves in the same manner as if that unit is deploying from Reserves; which therefore allows arrival by deployment special rules like Deep Strike.

If a Flyer/FMC with Deep Strike flies off the board, it can arrive via Deep Strike on that player's following turn.
If a model/unit with Deep Strike suffers a mishap that sends it to Ongoing Reserve, it can arrive via Deep Strike on that player's following turn.

100% correct.

 triplare wrote:
Reserves Pg 124
"When a Reserves unit arrives, it must move fully onto the table from the controlling player's own table edge... Models that are arriving by Deep Strike or Outflank deploy using their special rules..."

Ongoing Reserves pg 125
"Units in Ongoing Reserve always re-enter play at the start of their controlling player's following turn, but otherwise follow the normal rules for reserves."

Ongoing Reserves tells us to treat deploying from Ongoing Reserves in the same manner as if that unit is deploying from Reserves; which therefore allows arrival by deployment special rules like Deep Strike.

If a Flyer/FMC with Deep Strike flies off the board, it can arrive via Deep Strike on that player's following turn.
If a model/unit with Deep Strike suffers a mishap that sends it to Ongoing Reserve, it can arrive via Deep Strike on that player's following turn.

I don't believe this is correct. The rules for deep strike (p36) say this:

In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in reserve.

The way I read this is if a unit enters Ongoing Reserves, while it follows "all the normal rules for reserves" on of those rules limits when a unit can DS. Units that are required to DS override this rule as their limitation is more specific.

If a unit started the game in reserve, entered play normally, stuck around for a turn then entered Ongoing Reserves, I would allow it to DS back in as it started the game in reserve. However, if a unit started on the table (say, a Gliding Hive Tyrant), then Swooped off the table, it would have to enter from a board edge.

Does that sound wrong?

 undertow wrote:

 triplare wrote:
Reserves Pg 124
"When a Reserves unit arrives, it must move fully onto the table from the controlling player's own table edge... Models that are arriving by Deep Strike or Outflank deploy using their special rules..."

Ongoing Reserves pg 125
"Units in Ongoing Reserve always re-enter play at the start of their controlling player's following turn, but otherwise follow the normal rules for reserves."

Ongoing Reserves tells us to treat deploying from Ongoing Reserves in the same manner as if that unit is deploying from Reserves; which therefore allows arrival by deployment special rules like Deep Strike.

If a Flyer/FMC with Deep Strike flies off the board, it can arrive via Deep Strike on that player's following turn.
If a model/unit with Deep Strike suffers a mishap that sends it to Ongoing Reserve, it can arrive via Deep Strike on that player's following turn.

I don't believe this is correct. The rules for deep strike (p36) say this:

In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in reserve.

The way I read this is if a unit enters Ongoing Reserves, while it follows "all the normal rules for reserves" on of those rules limits when a unit can DS. Units that are required to DS override this rule as their limitation is more specific.

If a unit started the game in reserve, entered play normally, stuck around for a turn then entered Ongoing Reserves, I would allow it to DS back in as it started the game in reserve. However, if a unit started on the table (say, a Gliding Hive Tyrant), then Swooped off the table, it would have to enter from a board edge.

Does that sound wrong?

That's what I'm getting out of it as well.

 undertow wrote:

 triplare wrote:
Reserves Pg 124
"When a Reserves unit arrives, it must move fully onto the table from the controlling player's own table edge... Models that are arriving by Deep Strike or Outflank deploy using their special rules..."

Ongoing Reserves pg 125
"Units in Ongoing Reserve always re-enter play at the start of their controlling player's following turn, but otherwise follow the normal rules for reserves."

Ongoing Reserves tells us to treat deploying from Ongoing Reserves in the same manner as if that unit is deploying from Reserves; which therefore allows arrival by deployment special rules like Deep Strike.

If a Flyer/FMC with Deep Strike flies off the board, it can arrive via Deep Strike on that player's following turn.
If a model/unit with Deep Strike suffers a mishap that sends it to Ongoing Reserve, it can arrive via Deep Strike on that player's following turn.

I don't believe this is correct. The rules for deep strike (p36) say this:

In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in reserve.

The way I read this is if a unit enters Ongoing Reserves, while it follows "all the normal rules for reserves" on of those rules limits when a unit can DS. Units that are required to DS override this rule as their limitation is more specific.

If a unit started the game in reserve, entered play normally, stuck around for a turn then entered Ongoing Reserves, I would allow it to DS back in as it started the game in reserve. However, if a unit started on the table (say, a Gliding Hive Tyrant), then Swooped off the table, it would have to enter from a board edge.

Does that sound wrong?

You guys are both saying the same thing.. TRip just didn't go into detail as far as you did.

I understand what Deep Strike says; what I'm saying is that Deep Strike only details entering from Reserves, not Ongoing Reserves. Ongoing Reserves tells you to treat the returning unit as if that unit was entering from Reserves.

Meaning that a Swooping FMC can leave the table and arrive the following turn by Swooping in from the table edge or via Deep Strike Swooping.

Units that mishap would be treated in the exact same manner, meaning if any unit goes into Ongoing Reserve due to a mishap, that unit can deploy from Ongoing Reserves in any manner they can choose, including Deep Strike.

Would a model having some form of "may always enter by Deep Strike" in it's rules be an exemption to DS only from start of game, declared, reserves?

Homer

 triplare wrote:
Meaning that a Swooping FMC can leave the table and arrive the following turn by Swooping in from the table edge or via Deep Strike Swooping..

I think it depends on what the FMC is and where it started the game, as I mentioned earlier.

I do not believe that Daemon FMCs can choose to enter from the table edge when arriving from Ongoing Reserves as their Codex mandates that when a unit becomes available it must enter via DS.

The only other FMCs in the game (Hive Tyrants and Harpies) can only choose Table Edge or DS if they started the game in reserve. If they started on the table and swoop off later, they must re-enter via board edge.

 undertow wrote:
The only other FMCs in the game (Hive Tyrants and Harpies) can only choose Table Edge or DS if they started the game in reserve. If they started on the table and swoop off later, they must re-enter via board edge.

Chaos Space Marine Demon Princes also