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Okay, so, the local store is holding a tournament, and the rules are 1750 points, only one named character, and no fortifications. So, I had an earlier list that used the Aegis Defense Line, but, that is out and all the good tricks that go with it. Here is the newer revised list. Comments are welcome to improve upon.

CCS: plasma gun x2, Grenade Launcher, body guard x2, Plasma pistol, Carapace armor
Chimera w/ multi laser and heavy flamer

Vet Squad 1: Plasma gun x3, Missile Launcher, Carapace armor
chimera w/ multi laser and heavy bolter

Vet Squad 2: Melta gun x3, shotguns, Demolitions,
Chimera w/ heavy flamer and heavy flamer

Vet Squad 3: Melta gun x3
chimera w/ multi laser and heavy flamer

Vet Squad 4: gunner SGT Harker, Sniper rifle x3, Heavy bolter team

Scout Sentinel w/ auto cannon

Bane wolf w/ heavy flamer

Manticore Rocket Launcher

Manticore Rocket Launcher

Leman russ squad:
Exterminator w/ lascannon and heavy bolter sponsons x2


I know there are going to be one Nids player, Two Ork players, and a host of grey knights/blood angels/ and other SM armies with a CSM or two thrown in there. The Banewolf is there to take care of SM power armor or just draw a ton of fire. Heavy flamers alot for nids/orks. I like the idea of Harkers squad infiltrating or maybe coming in from reserve. However, they are there to camp on objectives in cover and have alot of shots. Manticores are there to just take alot of shots, the S10 is a big help against other mech armies and horde armies. Will let you know how it all works out.

Template weapons cant be used by vehicles after moving.... so unless youre opponent is stupid enough to stand still i wouldnt recommend them... also drop the demolitions on the melta vets... the meltas do tank busting just fine.. Also drop carapace on those plasma vets, carapace or chimera not both.. also bodyguards are mot usualy worth their points and they will be in that chimera anyway

Where does it say template weapons cant be used by vehicles after moving? They can't be snap fired after moving, but so what? I still think HF are the better choice on chimeras.

Well if they cant be snap fired as they have to be after moving that means they cant fire.... and unless your getting close (too close for IG really) flamers will be a waste of points, really if an enemy is getting that close to your chimera it means theyre gunna have something to pop it and really you want to get rid of them before they get that close, therefore HB

If fortifications aren't allowed why aren't you taking any Vendettas? Quad guns are the only AA a lot of armies have, also this could give you an AA option or two. I would definitely replace the Scout Sent with one, and a Bane wolf is for tank hunting not MEQ hunting. With a small blast you will kill 1ish models(maybe 3 if your opponent scrunches stuff up) for the same points you can rock a Vendetta for roughly 2 models and some AT.

Marbo...

I don't see why taking 1-2 flyers would be simply a good investment for AA. Otherwise you are leaving yourself open to a large part of the game now.

If you need points I would start by dropping the sentinal and the HB sponsons. After that drop the Carapace armor (CCS squads are dead if theyre getting shot anyways), body guard, and Plas pistol.

My other concerns would be using shotguns over lasguns, not saying you are going to get many wounds with either but lasguns do have 2x the range and have the same ROF at 12". The missile launcher also looks slightly out of place as well.

I think this has a solid base to it but a lot of the upgrades could be cut for more/better units. Also try to get more redundancy IG are naturally weak as individuals but become very strong when used towards one goal, so rather than having 4 different squad loadouts I would go for a max of 2 different loadouts Your opponents will have a harder time eliminating threats that way

Lets do a little trimming here,

CCS - 2x plas, carapace, chimera body guards arent really worth it if your commander is sitting in a tank, the GL doesnt mesh well and the plasma pistol is points needed else where

Vets - 3x plas, carapace, chimera fine
Vets - 3x melta, chimera demolitions are okay but lets use those points elsewhere for now
Vets - 3x melta, chimera fine
Vets harker isnt worth it losing him pays for that squad to have a chimera, the sniper rifles arent worth it, the HB isnt worth it

sentinels just suck so take that out and there are better vehicles then the bane wolf so lets lose that too

Manticore took out 1 because an extra russ will probably be more useful

lose the exterminator you can get a better russ variant with all the points freed up

total 895

that leaves 855 points to play with so you should try something like this,

CCS - 4x plas, carapace, chimera

vets - 3x plas, carapace, chimera
vets - 3x plas, carapace, chimera
vets - 3x melta, carapace, chimera
vets - 3x melta, carapace, chimera

vendetta

manticore
demolisher
demolisher

hull heavy flamers on everything
total 1575

Now you have a better HQ 4 good troops, a nice fast attack, and a solid heavy support and you still have 175 points to play with which would probably be filled by storm troopers pretty well or you could try my personal favorite the 2x LRBT with and 2 individual demolishers which would make it 1715 and then put an astropath and/ or a master of the fleet in the CCS

Not a bad first draft. I find your lack of anti-air ability to be disturbing though, and there are definitely some options here that you could do without.

For the CCS, find the points to load them out with four plasma guns. Quad plasma units can credibly threaten everything short of AV 14 vehicles, and if they've piled out of their transports, orders can really benefit the unit quite a bit. They're also your best option for dealing with Nid monstrous creatures.

For the Veteran Squads, I don't find Demolitions or Carapace Armor to be particularly worthwhile. Avoid Shotguns, they don't have any advantage over the Lasgun at this point unless you plan on charging with your Vets (Spoiler Alert: You don't plan on charging with your Vets).

I love Harker, but I usually outflank him in a Chimera. I see what you're going for with this squad, and since you don't have much in the way of dedicated anti-infantry fire, it's not a bad investment. Just hug cover and make sure that you keep his position protected from assault.

Regarding Chimeras with Hull Heavy Flamers, I find Heavy Bolters to be superior in almost every instance. One game out of five your Heavy Flamers might actually be in a position to do something, where your Heavy Bolters would have contributed the whole time.

Drop the Bane Wolf, get a Vendetta. You have no anti-air capability in this list, and the Vendetta is one of the best anti-air/anti-vehicle units in the entire game. This will be huge if you're up against Chaos Helldrakes, Storm Ravens or Nid monstrous creatures.

I would also drop one Manticore and add a second Russ. I like your Russ configuration because you won't have to snap fire any of your weapons, but it's the only Armor 14 vehicle in your list, and as such, it's going to attract everything that your opponent can throw at it. Russes seem durable, but trust me when I say that they do not hold up well to a dedicated attack. If you have two Russes, you give yourself a bit of redundancy and force your opponent to potentially split their fire. The good old fashioned Russ Battle Tank would suit your army well, I think. It also takes care of Space Marine Power Armor, and has the range to reach out and touch campers.

Good luck! I hope your trample the heretic and xenos filth like so much mud under your boots.

 General Ian wrote:
loads of stuff I agree with

This is good advice. I'd personally take out the carapase if the vets and CCS are in chimeras, that's a hell of a lot of points spent on making the guardsmen barely more survivable. This could be spent on another Vendetta which will either dominate, or draw fire. Either way it's awesome.

 SkaerKrow wrote:

Regarding Chimeras with Hull Heavy Flamers, I find Heavy Bolters to be superior in almost every instance. One game out of five your Heavy Flamers might actually be in a position to do something, where your Heavy Bolters would have contributed the whole time.

One of us must be doing something wrong here because I've found the heavy flamer to be far more useful than the heavy bolter and i usually end up regretting switching them out every time i do.

Griddellol wrote:
This is good advice. I'd personally take out the carapase if the vets and CCS are in chimeras, that's a hell of a lot of points spent on making the guardsmen barely more survivable. This could be spent on another Vendetta which will either dominate, or draw fire. Either way it's awesome.

You're right about the carapace, for me its a bit of a personal preference but if all the carapace was taken out of the alternate list i wrote up a second vendetta could fit which in the circumstances is probably a better trade off.

On the matter of HB vs HF. I sit on the fence. The HF is very situational, but when that situation arises it makes the heavy bolter look like a pile of crap. Example: wiping out a whole squad of deep striking storm troopers. The HB is an ok way to increase the output of the chimera (and to guarantee the search-light going off - I've rolled 3 misses on the ML plenty of times) through out the 5+ turns.

I'd go for a healthy mix, generally throw HFs on the melta vets and HBs on the plasma.

 General Ian wrote:


One of us must be doing something wrong here because I've found the heavy flamer to be far more useful than the heavy bolter and i usually end up regretting switching them out every time i do.

In my experience, canny opponents will not permit your Heavy Flamers to get close enough to targets that actually care about getting shot by Heavy Flamers. It's not hard to keep Chimeras out of Heavy Flamer range, either by blownig them up or screening/avoiding the gun's exceptionally limited range. On the other hand, the Heavy Bolter is usually in range from the word go, can snap fire if you're using your Chimera while on the move, and can threaten thin skinned vehicles and (if you're really desperate) fliers. Even when I outflank my Heavy Flamer Chimeras, they tend to find precious little in the way of targets.