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So, I've received a tank from eBay I'm trying to salvage and reclaim and I'm running into some major issues. After some research into stripping techniques (thanks, Dakka!), I found that Super Clean does a pretty awesome job of it. My first attempt at a stripping a Predator Annihilator is humming along smoothly. The paint came off with a few swipes of a toothbrush and the glue turned extra brittle and I was able to work an old hobby knife under it and just pop it off without more than a few scratches here and there, and anything that didn't was easily sanded down with a diamond model file. It's currently cleanly primed and awaiting it's turn in the painting carousel.

Now on to what's going wrong:

Seeing that the first model was proceeding well I spent some extra money on a second, seeing as I wanted some rhinos as well. I got the item fairly cheap, but it was fugly as sin and had a baaaaad Ultramarines paint job on it. The paint had a weird luster to it (like it's not acrylic) and there was some awful assembly/gluing. I assumed after the first one, this one would just pop apart and I'd rebuild it.

See the picture of the original look here:


After several days in a sealed container of fresh Super Clean it's STILL not fully stripped of the paint. Not just in crevices but massive, snakelike blotches across the bottom and sides. Especially the white (the belly is white, the rest of the tank is blue). The arrows on the side are painted with the same stuff as the bottom. Worse even is the gluing. It's not becoming brittle or coming apart. I'm suspecting some sort of plastic glue. I forced the sides and roof off and they came off because the glue was thin, not because of the weakness inherit in the plastic.

I have no idea how I'm going to get the Razorback/Predator turret piece off the top of the body and replace it with Rhino roof doors (which I have a couple spares of). It is COMPLETELY stuck in there and prying at it iwth a finger or a hobby knife doesn't budge it so much as a millimeter. When looking under the top of the rhino (which I was able to pry up and off) there's a layer of that glue all over.

Also, in cracking it open, a few small pieces of plastic (one of the tread teeth, a piece of the floor, and a corner off the center interior wall) have come off. I'm very worried about more, but need to get in and get this glue off and reset the poor construction. I was also hoping to paint the interior.

Would it help if I took/posted pictures of the tank as it is now? Halfway stripped.

I must say this depend a bit if the paint is obscuring details or not. If it is then you have a problem. Of not, just leave it be.

The bad glue job is a mess. Perhaps you should use some greenstuff in there and file it down to get sharp edges?

It almost looks like the previous owner used a hot glue gun to attach pieces. You could probably pull it apart and focus on repairing each piece to get better results.

Was it glued together with superglue at least?

If you aren't worried about saving the turret plate, I'd suggest going at it with an old pair of clippers. If you start from the hole you can cut out big chunks then carefully shave off the remainder with an exacto.

Also if the gaps are wide enough you may be able to saw the thing apart, file the old glue off and redo it.

For stripping the paint, if you can get the doors out, you can try filing/sanding the arrows off, or just replace them if you have spares.

What you've got there is a model that was poorly assembled with solvent glue (not superglue) and painted with what is commonly called enamel paints.

Plastic glue actually bonds the two peices together. To separate the parts, your only option is cutting. Stop trying to pry it apart (if it was hot glue, it would have come apart already) as you'll only break more sections. Get your self a razor saw and start cutting along the joins. once you get the joins separated, sand down the edges to make them meet evenly.

For stripping it, you're probably SOL. "Enamel Paints" (not a totally accurate title, since you can have acryilic enamel but still...) as they are usually called are non-acrylic and are thinned with minerals spirits. Thus, they aren't going to come off with simple green or purple power which are mostly effective against acrylic paints and will break down superglue. You can try other stripping agents, but mostly likely any solvent strong enough to break down enamel paints is going to damage the plastic.

Still, at this point you've got nothign to loose, why not try applying something really strong to a limited area of the model and see what happens. Whatever you do stay away from MEK or Acetone as they will kill plastic.

 Niiai wrote:
I must say this depend a bit if the paint is obscuring details or not. If it is then you have a problem. Of not, just leave it be.

The bad glue job is a mess. Perhaps you should use some greenstuff in there and file it down to get sharp edges?

Yes. The white paint in particular is filling in the details of the doors its on and the underside interiors of the track assemblies (something that's closer to being hidden at least). It's the side doors that are the real concern for me as they absolutely will not come out due to the gluing.

As for whether it's superglue? I don't know. It's an eBay rescue and was second hand from a gamestore, so they can't answer any questions about it. Super glue falls apart and becomes brittle in Super Clean. This stuff is absolutely not doing so. It MIGHT be a plastic glue.

The glue itself is vaguely whiteish in color (only going transparent at the edges of it). It's not PVA glue as that would dissolve in Super Clean or peel apart by hand. It's also not that thick, it's just everywhere on the interior of the model, and was way over applied.

EDIT: @Eiliff -- just saw your post. That's what I'm starting to feel is the issue. I think you're just confirming it for me.

I really had high hopes for this. I guess I should attack this with clippers and a file tonight.

Destroyed Rhino terrain/objective? :-)

Destroyed rhino terrian! collect enough and make a junk yard.

Just use a fine sander on the paint, a few minutes of sanding it down with rough grain and then very fine should get passable results.

As for the roof piece, if you're not worried too badly about aesthetics, just leave it in place and glue the doors over the top. Use an exacto first to get the pokey-outy bits (hinges and such) smoothed out, then after use gs to spackle the rough edge around the door base.

In reply to the title: Get a new job?

Iranna.

PolecatEZ wrote:
Just use a fine sander on the paint, a few minutes of sanding it down with rough grain and then very fine should get passable results.

As for the roof piece, if you're not worried too badly about aesthetics, just leave it in place and glue the doors over the top. Use an exacto first to get the pokey-outy bits (hinges and such) smoothed out, then after use gs to spackle the rough edge around the door base.

This is not a bad idea. There an awful lot of recessed detail on a model kit though. Rather than a sander, maybe a wire brush wheel on a dremel ( or a hand drill) would strip off the paint. At a very high speed it would eat through or melt the plastic, but perhaps at a low or medium speed it would take the paint away.

The problem is that the enamel paint might a harder surface than the plastic, but it's still worth a shot as it might flake off and not have to be completely ground off.

If it was painted with enamels, only paint thinner will remove it, along with a lot of the plastic.

2 ideas: brush on the paint thinner and use a soft toothbrush (preferably of someone you hate) to remove the loosening paint.

Or just deal with it, prime over top of the poor paint job, and know better next time.

 CIsaac wrote:
Would it help if I took/posted pictures of the tank as it is now? Halfway stripped.

Yes, with a few exceptions Super Clean will remove every paint which is out there - but some paints will actually stain the plastic (certain rattle can brands for example). Pictures of what came off and what didn't would help to figure out whether or not what is left is staining or something else. Barring that, the next step up on the hierarchy of paint strippers is Easy Off or DOT3 Brake fluid (Easy Off having the fewest disposal issues). Either of those should remove the remaining paint - though if it is staining, the only way you can deal with that is an abrasive.

 Breotan wrote:
Was it glued together with superglue at least?

The way that joint looks, it is probably thick plastic glue like Testor's Tube glues or a different brand of comparable consistency. Superglue usually looks like crystallized something or other when the gaps are so large.
________________

Regarding getting the parts apart, you actually have a bit of an advantage if it is in fact tube glue as I suspect. The plastic in those joints tends to remain "different" from the rest, so it it pretty easy to separate the parts in most cases. How it will be different will depend on the specific brand used, but it can sometimes be soft and gummy...almost to the point where you can use a fingernail to pry two parts apart or it might be hard - in which case you will need to use a sharp knife and careful pressure to follow the joint. Once it starts to separate though, the joint will generally crack along the seem.

What I would probably start with is a dip in a bath of water - make sure you soak it all the way through and let the water get inside and out. Pull it out and throw it in a big zip lock bag or Tupperware type container. Toss that in the bottom of the freezer. Cross your fingers and wait. Between the water expanding when it freezes and the physical changes caused to the plastic joints the models often fall apart with no effort. For an added punch, you can pull the model out and toss it right under hot water from the faucet.

If it is a really big mess on the inside though - you might just be better to cut your losses and either work the exterior only or use it as a terrain feature.

This looks like just about the worst case scenario available, if you don't trash this I'd LOVE to see what you do with it man!

Ok, here we go. This is going to get fairly pic heavy so I'll spoiler tag them all. This is what I could do with five days of soaking in Super Clean and scrubbing with a toothbrush until my fingers fell off. I've peeled it apart as much as I dare, but you'll be able to detect some small damage here and there. Here's the tank in as much of a deconstructed condition as I can make it. The tracks absolutely will not pull off safely. I'm not even trying them.

Front, top and front glacis. I absolutely cannot get that terribly assembled driver out of the hatch.


Rear, top of the tank. Thick, thick glue on the edges.


Interior, floor:


Right hand side (the same side from the original photo). There's glue dappled on the front. Probably going to have to sand it off:


Left hand side. It would not peel apart like the right hand did.


Interior left hand side. You can get an idea for how bad the track assemblies look. Also where the sides met the flooring are just awful.


The center divider.


And, finally, the rear door.

You could probably use a pick or something to manually remove the paint that is stuck in the crevasses. It's actually looking pretty good so far.

 Smitty wrote:
You could probably use a pick or something to manually remove the paint that is stuck in the crevasses. It's actually looking pretty good so far.

That's kind of my opinion also. It's not unsavable, and a bit of work with a dental-style pick (Harbor freight has a cheap set for a couple bucks) might take away even more of the paint. Track assemblies can be grimey (I always model mine with mud anyway) so that's not really a problem.

You're going to have to do some sanding and putty work on the body, but that's not the end of the world either. I highly recommend a plastic modelers putty like squadron rather than green stuff as it dries faster and is easier to smooth, and sand level. It's what airplane modelers use to modify models.

I wouldn't worry about the interior. Just glue it shut and call it a day.

yeah the snake like things you talk about are caused by the insane amount of glue used and the previous owned did use a hot glue gun or something. also to attach the rhino door with the outside in is pretty much a sign that he was braindead...

i had something similar... a MK1 vindicator and it is a paint, but with a lot of patience, filing, filling, sanding, filling, filing, sanding you can get it to work...

nice work stripping that nightmare, props to you

There are some good news, at least I think so:

Do not use the interiot of the tanks. My tanks at least are shut down, I do not like movable parts. The white arias in general would probably be used as rust effect (I like my models to be worn.) However, this represents a problem with your doors, unless you are a good painter. You could potensialy have some rust on the doors.

I think the models looks in fine working condition exept for the details on the top hatch.

PS: Is the glue stone hard? Perhaps he went crazy and used araldite?

 Niiai wrote:
There are some good news, at least I think so:

Do not use the interiot of the tanks. My tanks at least are shut down, I do not like movable parts. The white arias in general would probably be used as rust effect (I like my models to be worn.) However, this represents a problem with your doors, unless you are a good painter. You could potensialy have some rust on the doors.

I think the models looks in fine working condition exept for the details on the top hatch.

PS: Is the glue stone hard? Perhaps he went crazy and used araldite?

Initial testing (very gently) with a hobby knife scratches it, but it doesn't crack apart like Super Clean weakened super glue does. I can probably sand it down easily enough. I have diamond files and I can get some super fine sandpaper from the hardware store down the street.

I have a well stocked Hobbytown USA down the street with all the airplane modeling accessories available in it. While I don't own a pick or a razor saw, I can see picking them up as a long term investment if I want to keep doing things like this. They have a variety of both available.

So, here's what I'm contemplating:

1) Sawing out the turret piece and the driver. (use plasticard underneath to make up for sawed out lips/plastic)
2) Replacing them with a closed hatch bit and a closed rhino top door bit (which I have)
3) Sanding down the extra glue where possible.
4) Use a pick to clean out the details that can be saved in the track assemblies and door areas.
5) Seal up the tank, glue it shut so the interior is permanently hidden.
6) Complete the reassembly and then prime it.
7) Paint it up, then heavily weather the underside and the tracks (like it'd been plowed through mud)
8) Mask any cuts or scrapes or bad paint/glue blobs as 'battle damage' and cut them out/down and make it look like bullet/glancing wounds in the armor.

Sound like a plan?

Wow, I can't believe you got that thing looking as good as it does. I've had rough experiences wtih stripping plastic as well, but nothing like that. Still, to be honest it doesn't look that bad anymore. I've primed over far, far worse and just pressed on.

Any way you shake it, your plan seems solid to me.

 CIsaac wrote:


Initial testing (very gently) with a hobby knife scratches it, but it doesn't crack apart like Super Clean weakened super glue does. I can probably sand it down easily enough. I have diamond files and I can get some super fine sandpaper from the hardware store down the street.

I have a well stocked Hobbytown USA down the street with all the airplane modeling accessories available in it. While I don't own a pick or a razor saw, I can see picking them up as a long term investment if I want to keep doing things like this. They have a variety of both available.

I highly recommend the razor saw. Except for a jewlers saw which is a bit more fragile, the razor saw is the easiest non-powered way to make perfectly strait and even cuts in plastic and metal figs. I don't even bother with the handle as I find holding it in my palm gives the most control. You can lubricate the blade with a bit of vaseline for really smooth cutting Also, it's dirt cheap and will last quite a while.
http://shop.hobbylobby.com/products/1-saw-blade-765693/

As for picks, they're not essential, but are a nice thing to have around and are easier to use than the tip of an exacto blade. Places like Menards or Harbor freight usually have a set for cheap. Make sure you get the ones with the wirey ends. The chunkier pics aren't bad for sculpting, but won't "pick" the real small spaces.
http://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-pick-set-93514.html

Here's the kind of putty I mentioned earlier. A really useful item and should be available at HobbyTown USA.
http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/squ/squ9065.htm

 CIsaac wrote:

So, here's what I'm contemplating:

1) Sawing out the turret piece and the driver. (use plasticard underneath to make up for sawed out lips/plastic)
2) Replacing them with a closed hatch bit and a closed rhino top door bit (which I have)
3) Sanding down the extra glue where possible.
4) Use a pick to clean out the details that can be saved in the track assemblies and door areas.
5) Seal up the tank, glue it shut so the interior is permanently hidden.
6) Complete the reassembly and then prime it.
7) Paint it up, then heavily weather the underside and the tracks (like it'd been plowed through mud)
8) Mask any cuts or scrapes or bad paint/glue blobs as 'battle damage' and cut them out/down and make it look like bullet/glancing wounds in the armor.

Sound like a plan?

Sounds like a plan! Keep us posted on how the restoration goes.

If it dosnt work out there is always Nurgle or the orky way.

This is why I use DOT3 (BECAUSE THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN TYPES) brake fluid to strip paint.

It cares not what the paint is. PRIMER, ENAMEL, ACRYLIC. ALL gone. Won't hurt my plastics (but works better on metals as you can leave them in longer).

I've stripped a rhino sprayed with solvent based auto primer with it (10 minute soaks followed by vigourous scrubbing with a nailbrush, followed by another soak and a toothbrush scrub.).

Plastic glue, however, isn't a glue and once it sets, those joined pieces are ONE piece, with the bond being the strongest part.

 chromedog wrote:
This is why I use DOT3 (BECAUSE THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN TYPES) brake fluid to strip paint.

It cares not what the paint is. PRIMER, ENAMEL, ACRYLIC. ALL gone. Won't hurt my plastics (but works better on metals as you can leave them in longer).

I've stripped a rhino sprayed with solvent based auto primer with it (10 minute soaks followed by vigourous scrubbing with a nailbrush, followed by another soak and a toothbrush scrub.).

Plastic glue, however, isn't a glue and once it sets, those joined pieces are ONE piece, with the bond being the strongest part.

My main issue is difficulty of disposal. That's why I demured on brake fluid for something I could dispose of using just a kitchen sink. I've learned my lesson, though. Next time I ask the seller if they know what type of paint/glue was used.

Looking at the pictures, it almost seems like he used a two part epoxy glue (basically liquid resin) instead of plastic glue. If this is the case, you're cutting it off because there is no solvent for epoxy resin.

I think you're going to have to bite the bullet and tool up for major surgery here. This is going to be a heart/lung transplant instead of resetting a broken arm. :(

 Breotan wrote:
Looking at the pictures, it almost seems like he used a two part epoxy glue (basically liquid resin) instead of plastic glue. If this is the case, you're cutting it off because there is no solvent for epoxy resin.

I think you're going to have to bite the bullet and tool up for major surgery here. This is going to be a heart/lung transplant instead of resetting a broken arm. :(

Yup. I bought a hobby board and Razor Saw. I'll probably have time this weekend to start surgery. I also bought some fine grain sandpaper from the local Home Depot to make an attack on some of those glue puddles on the outside armor.

Until them I'm working on my other tank rescue. It's primed and I've started painting. Hoping to have it done by Saturday.

Update to post concerning the Rhino. I think the top can't be salvaged. The sides/bottom/tracks on the other hand look to be savable.

Here's the equipment I'm using (as well as a pick of it)
1) Xacto brand Razor Saw
2) Xacto brand hobby knife
3) 400 grain sandpaper
4) diamond metal files
5) Hobbico brand cutting board



As to the glue itself, there are several spots where it caused the plastic itself to bubble as it set into it. So this is some time of plastic or resin glue.

Here's what I've got. Pic heavy, so spoilered.

First, here's the ( looking forward from rear ) the left hand side of the tank. Sanded down all the glue puddles that literally were everywhere. I need to pick at the door details some more, but it's doing better.


Interior left of the tank. Filed down the join to the floor. Sanded the area that sticks out to make the front fender of the tank.


Right hand side of the tank. Still need to do some fine sanding, but I think it's looking good.


Interior right side. As you can see this part came away clean from the interior wall whereas with the left side, they're permanently joined.
Not much to say here. Cleaned some flash/glue off the treads.


The interior floor plus right interior wall. Permanently joined at the joint. Can't break them apart without major damage. The floor has been sanded smooth, but those marks aren't going to ever come off. I've smoothed the side/join areas with the other side of the tank as best I can.


The bottom. The reason that white's not coming off the track wheels? It's under the glue. Never coming off.
I've sanded it as flat as I can. I'm going to mud the heck out of this if it makes it to painting.


The front of the underside, sanded flat.


And here we go... the part that is generally making me mad and frustrating me. This is the part I just can't do anything with. The top. Every time the razor saw meets the glue, it sticks and I can't saw through without the model shaking so hard and bending it's about to snap in two. The turret hole piece that goes where the roof doors should be is just not coming out clean. On top of that the front fender already has developed a crack and I can't cut the front armor out either as the razor saw sticks there too. It's a mess. As you can see I tried sawing out the driver and only got a stump for my trouble. I can't get the razor saw to catch well enough in the hatch to do a circular cut. Hobby knife blades start to bend.


At this point I'm pondering writing off the top and buying bits for it from a bits store. Opinions?

Do you have a dremel?

A dremel is risky ask it chews through plastic pretty fast, but if used carefully you can sand through glue and cut away glue and plastic?

A cheap mototool kit usually only costs 10-20 bucks. It's probably more than you want to invest in this project, but it's a usefull tool to have around for hobbying.