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Things that need Skyfire: Annihilation Barges
Things that don't need Skyfire: Gauss Pylons

And yet, here we are...
(fix these things, GW, and you may see an increase in their sales)

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Oh God... I've been playing them wrong, haven't I? I've been playing Tau too often, but I thought Skyfire let you CHOOSE to either fire at full BS for that turn vs. Flyers, or Ground units, snap-shooting versus the other?

I apologize profusely if i've been giving advice based on my own misplays and stupidity.

Edit: Yep. Just checked BRB. I'm a moron, and my Gauss Exterminator Pylons just became significantly less sexy. :(

Yeah, its only intercepter which allows you to choose.
Which is not a rule I'm a fan of, really. Skyfire should always let you choose, and interceptor should do exactly that, allow you to fire upon units coming from reserves.

Funnily enough, I actually thought that the mini pylons come with interceptor. I should read that book again.

sieGermans wrote:
Sky fire still gets full BS versus skimmers and jet bikes, though! Which is sometimes relevant, I guess?

Interceptor just lets you shoot the weapon at the end of the enemy movement phase, at something that came in from Reserve that movement phase.

Skyfire gives normal BS when shooting at Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures and Skimmers. Everything else, is only snap shooting, which includes Jet Bikes.

Those rules got a major overhaul in 7th, that kind of killed anything with built in skyfire on the weapon. At least they give Flyers the option to turn on or off skyfire.

Not our flyers, though...
(if you're using that supplement... which I wouldn't suggest doing... because it kinda sucks for us)

sieGermans wrote:
Sky fire still gets full BS versus skimmers and jet bikes, though! Which is sometimes relevant, I guess?

Skyfire doesn't allow you to use your normal BS against Jetbikes.

Ah, right-o. I'll correct my post!

Draco765 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Oh God... I've been playing them wrong, haven't I? I've been playing Tau too often, but I thought Skyfire let you CHOOSE to either fire at full BS for that turn vs. Flyers, or Ground units, snap-shooting versus the other?

I apologize profusely if i've been giving advice based on my own misplays and stupidity.

Edit: Yep. Just checked BRB. I'm a moron, and my Gauss Exterminator Pylons just became significantly less sexy. :(

Yeah, its only intercepter which allows you to choose.
Which is not a rule I'm a fan of, really. Skyfire should always let you choose, and interceptor should do exactly that, allow you to fire upon units coming from reserves.

Funnily enough, I actually thought that the mini pylons come with interceptor. I should read that book again.

sieGermans wrote:
Sky fire still gets full BS versus skimmers and jet bikes, though! Which is sometimes relevant, I guess?

Interceptor just lets you shoot the weapon at the end of the enemy movement phase, at something that came in from Reserve that movement phase.

Skyfire gives normal BS when shooting at Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures and Skimmers. Everything else, is only snap shooting, which includes Jet Bikes.

Those rules got a major overhaul in 7th, that kind of killed anything with built in skyfire on the weapon. At least they give Flyers the option to turn on or off skyfire.

Eh really? That's dumb.
Only fighters can choose skyfire, btw. Which necrons don't have. Because Death from the Skies is gak.
I flicked through it. The combat roles are barely developed, wings are just to make you buy more flyers, the new stats have little impact and the dogfight phase is a waste of time, little more than a convoluted version of Rock Paper Scissors.
I was not impressed. I hope 8 ed doesn't use those rules.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Draco765 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Oh God... I've been playing them wrong, haven't I? I've been playing Tau too often, but I thought Skyfire let you CHOOSE to either fire at full BS for that turn vs. Flyers, or Ground units, snap-shooting versus the other?

I apologize profusely if i've been giving advice based on my own misplays and stupidity.

Edit: Yep. Just checked BRB. I'm a moron, and my Gauss Exterminator Pylons just became significantly less sexy. :(

Yeah, its only intercepter which allows you to choose.
Which is not a rule I'm a fan of, really. Skyfire should always let you choose, and interceptor should do exactly that, allow you to fire upon units coming from reserves.

Funnily enough, I actually thought that the mini pylons come with interceptor. I should read that book again.

sieGermans wrote:
Sky fire still gets full BS versus skimmers and jet bikes, though! Which is sometimes relevant, I guess?

Interceptor just lets you shoot the weapon at the end of the enemy movement phase, at something that came in from Reserve that movement phase.

Skyfire gives normal BS when shooting at Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures and Skimmers. Everything else, is only snap shooting, which includes Jet Bikes.

Those rules got a major overhaul in 7th, that kind of killed anything with built in skyfire on the weapon. At least they give Flyers the option to turn on or off skyfire.

Eh really? That's dumb.
Only fighters can choose skyfire, btw. Which necrons don't have. Because Death from the Skies is gak.
I flicked through it. The combat roles are barely developed, wings are just to make you buy more flyers, the new stats have little impact and the dogfight phase is a waste of time, little more than a convoluted version of Rock Paper Scissors.
I was not impressed. I hope 8 ed doesn't use those rules.

Since Death from the Skies is an optional supplement, it does not have an effect in the game unless the players agree to it. Which, normally, they don't, and was not factored in with my responses.

Draco765 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Draco765 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Oh God... I've been playing them wrong, haven't I? I've been playing Tau too often, but I thought Skyfire let you CHOOSE to either fire at full BS for that turn vs. Flyers, or Ground units, snap-shooting versus the other?

I apologize profusely if i've been giving advice based on my own misplays and stupidity.

Edit: Yep. Just checked BRB. I'm a moron, and my Gauss Exterminator Pylons just became significantly less sexy. :(

Yeah, its only intercepter which allows you to choose.
Which is not a rule I'm a fan of, really. Skyfire should always let you choose, and interceptor should do exactly that, allow you to fire upon units coming from reserves.

Funnily enough, I actually thought that the mini pylons come with interceptor. I should read that book again.

sieGermans wrote:
Sky fire still gets full BS versus skimmers and jet bikes, though! Which is sometimes relevant, I guess?

Interceptor just lets you shoot the weapon at the end of the enemy movement phase, at something that came in from Reserve that movement phase.

Skyfire gives normal BS when shooting at Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures and Skimmers. Everything else, is only snap shooting, which includes Jet Bikes.

Those rules got a major overhaul in 7th, that kind of killed anything with built in skyfire on the weapon. At least they give Flyers the option to turn on or off skyfire.

Eh really? That's dumb.
Only fighters can choose skyfire, btw. Which necrons don't have. Because Death from the Skies is gak.
I flicked through it. The combat roles are barely developed, wings are just to make you buy more flyers, the new stats have little impact and the dogfight phase is a waste of time, little more than a convoluted version of Rock Paper Scissors.
I was not impressed. I hope 8 ed doesn't use those rules.

Since Death from the Skies is an optional supplement, it does not have an effect in the game unless the players agree to it. Which, normally, they don't, and was not factored in with my responses.

Actually I don't think it is. In the introduction it said that its an update that replaces the rules in the BrB.
Dogfight, at least, is optional, as it clearly says your opponent doesn't have to do it. I don't think there are any drawbacks either, which makes it a bit pointless, imo.

The rules aren't optional, but if nobody owns the book...

Requizen wrote:
The rules aren't optional, but if nobody owns the book...

True. Which makes it even more stupid. If you are going to release an update like that, make it free or incorporate it into the next edition of the rule book.
GW marketing gonna GW marketing, I suppose.

Assault flyer vs. fighter is what killed death from the skies, before that if you were worried about flyers you took one. After DFTS you have to take the right kind of flyer, and the right kind of flyer can only skyfire, so they are useless if your opponent didn't bring a flyer. If it weren't for that dumbest of rulings, people would have eaten DFTS up, the formations are pretty good.

They basically altered the risk/reward profile for (aka nerfed) every flyer in the game, and didn't adjust their points or abilities. The dumb part is they reprinted the rules for every flyer in the game (save for some FW exclusives), so they had the chance to rewrite everything to be balanced around the new rules and were like "Eff it, it's too much work, throw some formations at it, nerds like formations". Then because they realized it was a giant pile, they decided to make it required, so at least TFG would buy it, and other players would have to buy it in self defense. The problem is even TFG realized what a steaming pile the book was and skipped it.

I'm especially bitter because I have flyers, and they are some of my best painted models, and I can't use them because of that stupid effing supplement. I used to see flyers weekly, now nobody in my meta runs them. If GW came out tomorrow and said "Ha ha we were just kidding both players have to agree to DFTS, our bad" they would be seriously doing their game a favor.

Cadian spoilers below:

sieGermans wrote:
Cadian spoilers below:

Spoiler:

So, the White Dwarf magazine for this month narratively describes Trazyn's new rule set as something along the lines of allowing three (3) units to deep strike in from his tesseract vaults. Has anyone seen a more concrete rule set description that we can all evaluate?

I thought we were told that it was for a special scenario.

Not I, but I'm pretty stoked we got tossed a bone in cadia. The real question is why didn't Trazyn bring his legions if he is going to throw his lot in with the imperium (and possibly anger Imhotek, who is not fond of the imperium). Guess we'll just have to wait and see

Tyazyn and Imotekh don't get along very well, not since he tried to steal Imotekh's staff for his collection.

Regardless, if they're able to fix the worst HQ in the codex, even slightly, I'll be happy.

 skoffs wrote:
Tyazyn and Imotekh don't get along very well, not since he tried to steal Imotekh's staff for his collection.

Regardless, if they're able to fix the worst HQ in the codex, even slightly, I'll be happy.

He technically can't be the worst HQ choice due to Illuminor existing but he's definitely in the bottom three.

Huh?

Szeras is good in a CAD, exuding a RP +1 bubble and a re-roll leadership saves bubble. He buffs a unit (+1 T, +1 BS, or +1 S) and he has a gun that is arguably better than a Heavy Destroyers since it has Lance.

Trazyn does next to nothing.

Am I missing something?

col_impact wrote:
Huh?

Szeras is good in a CAD, exuding a RP +1 bubble and a re-roll leadership saves bubble. He buffs a unit (+1 T, +1 BS, or +1 S) and he has a gun that is arguably better than a Heavy Destroyers since it has Lance.

Trazyn does next to nothing.

Am I missing something?

Competitive Necrons are almost never in a CAD, the buff is completely random and only given to two types of units, and the gun is only better against AV14, and the Heavy Destroyers will be in a Cult anyway meaning rerolls.

Meanwhile, Trazyn has a much better default Warlord Trait and functions better against tarpits. He isn't good at all but between the two he's much better as a Tactical choice, and that says a LOT.

Szeras fits tactically into a gunline Necron list. In that list you are running a CAD to get a fortification (voidshield generator or skyshield) to protect your msu Heavy Destroyers and optional Judicator Stalker.

Meanwhile, Trazyn doesn't really fit into any list. Any role he could play some other HQ does it better.

The only thing he can maybe be the best at is not giving up Slay the Warlord (provided you want to play the hefty cryptek/lord tax to enable his Surrogate Hosts ability). But at that point you are better off hiding a superior HQ in a Scythe or a Bunker or the old standby of Lychguard+ Orikan to avoid giving up Slay the Warlord.

REGARDLESS, they're both bad.
Hopefully now Trazyn won't be AS bad.

col_impact wrote:
Szeras fits tactically into a gunline Necron list. In that list you are running a CAD to get a fortification (voidshield generator or skyshield) to protect your msu Heavy Destroyers and optional Judicator Stalker.

Meanwhile, Trazyn doesn't really fit into any list. Any role he could play some other HQ does it better.

The only thing he can maybe be the best at is not giving up Slay the Warlord (provided you want to play the hefty cryptek/lord tax to enable his Surrogate Hosts ability). But at that point you are better off hiding a superior HQ in a Scythe or a Bunker or the old standby of Lychguard+ Orikan to avoid giving up Slay the Warlord.

It really isn't hard to just get in a Fortification if you need one via allies. It is a bad justification.

Also via that gun line you're running Crypteks anyway and it isn't like you invest in them anyway. So there's that.

So that armored assault box came out a recently, which is making me contemplate picking up a box or more up. I don't currently own any arks. I know that some of you are lukewarm towards them and I know a new addition is coming out soon. How many would you get? The answer is probably between 0 and 2, but I wanted your thoughts before I get one. It would be delaying my purchase of wraiths and spyders in case you are wondering, but I figure those will always be available. I am also wondering how long it will be available for. If it will be out a while it might be worth waiting on a Necron made to order to save on shipping.

I'd get one to try it out.

I run two when I'm using Warriors to objective grab in a Decurion.

It's a great deal (save $25 USD), but yeah, Ghost Arks aren't so great at the moment.

 skoffs wrote:
It's a great deal (save $25 USD), but yeah, Ghost Arks aren't so great at the moment.

They reversed the ruling on passengers needing to snap shot if their transport jinked. Now if only grav wasn't in the game.

 Anpu-adom wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
It's a great deal (save $25 USD), but yeah, Ghost Arks aren't so great at the moment.

They reversed the ruling on passengers needing to snap shot if their transport jinked. Now if only grav wasn't in the game.

Grav is mostly just 24" range and limited in numbers. Assault the Devastrators/bikes with Wraiths/Tomb Blades/Lychguard and they're quite safe. Not to mention 4+ jink save on Grav shots. Jinking Ghost Arks are way more survivable than people give them credit.

Yes, we're all aware of the FAQ that lets occupants fire at full BS,
But if taking a Decurion, there are generally better things to spend the points on (unless going Silver Tide, in which case a couple of them in the list come in pretty handy).
If going CAD, on the other hand, ObSec makes them much more worth it.

Honestly I'd get it if you don't have a ghost ark and need warriors and scarabs. Ghost ark is iffy, it can jink and has 4 hull points, so it's pretty tough as long as it's getting glanced, and the fire power it brings is respectable. Since it can jink all day without affecting the passengers and is immune to small arms fire while the quantum shielding is up, it can really extend the life of a unit of warriors, while giving them a very noticeable boost in shootyness.

The problem is one penetrating hit and it's going down fast and The current meta is chock full of melta, missiles, and lances. We tend not to run many vehicles so it's likely to get a lot of attention from your opponents anti-vehicle units. Still the flying bread box list had quite a bit of following before the FAQ's first draft.

Vehicles in general are bad, unless they are free.

Why give your opponent's anti-AV something to shoot at when you could spend those points on more of our superior infantry.