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Vorian wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Vorian wrote:

EDIT: OK, and lets squish that one right away: the main HH line is expensive, yes. It's also entirely compatible with 40K - if you collect Space Marines you don't have to choose between 40K Marines and 30K Marines in any sense other than which aesthetic you prefer, the models are almost completely interchangable. The rules are also a branch of 40K rules and so don't have any effort-barrier. AT will be a new(to most) system with models that can be used for AT, they two are not equivalent from the logical position of someone with a limited hobby budget seeking to maximise value for money.

So, it's expensive yet still popular.

Glad we agree.

AT has things in its favour and things against it. We will see how all those factor together and how successful it is. At the moment we have nothing but vague guesses at pricing and the other factors are unquantifiable.

So it's expensive and yet popular for particular reasons, which do not apply to AT.

Glad we agree.

And since this is a rumour forum where we discuss rumours evidently speculation is going to be part of any discussion here, but characterising pretty fundamental "it will be a similar size to this thing, so will likely be a similar cost to same thing" logic as "vague guesses" doesn't really work, unless you're willing to sit there with a straight face and argue it's probable that FW would put out a Contemptor-sized model with Contemptor-sized weapons and charge us any significant amount less than a Contemptor to buy it.

Hey, if they do and AT is cheap as chips or even reasonably priced, nobody will be happier than me, but don't pretend either of those outcomes is even fractionally as likely as the speculated figures based on previous product pricing.

I don't expect it to be cheap at all. My point was simply that the pricing alone doesn't mean the game is DoA.

If they sell a quarter the number of Contemptors in Reavers then I think they'll count it as a runaway success.

I'm sure they understand that making it all resin is going to significantly reduce the number of units they'll get out the door.

Which would be a series of devastating counterpoints were I arguing the game was going to be "DoA", or that pricing is the only reason why, or that FW are unaware that expensive resin only will almost certainly result in lower volume.

The main flaw in your logic Yodhrin, is that you're assuming they adopt their normal pricing strategy in the entry stuff.

That they're making plastic terrain suggests anticipation of a certain volume of sales. If they're confident of that volume, or, indeed, to stimulate the demand for that volume, there's a very real chance they'll price some of the basic stuff at a much lower margin than their normal one. Plus I'm sure there's steps they could take to mitigate the cost that they may not usually, such as a design that is easier on the molds (not too many spikes bits etc.)

I expect the Titans will be highly modular, and there's plenty of opportunity to make alternate weapons systems, armour sets etc which, if the existing shoulder pad, tank door etc sets are anything to go by, will yield a substantial margin and help mitigate the lower profit on the core models. Plus other Titan marques can be priced at more of a premium.

I don't think the idea that it'll be really pricey is ridiculous, but assuming there's no possibility of at least the first steps being relatively affordable isn't right either.

 Azreal13 wrote:


I don't think the idea that it'll be really pricey is ridiculous, but assuming there's no possibility of at least the first steps being relatively affordable isn't right either.

I hope so!

Adeptus Titanicus is pretty much the only GW/FW game I'm looking forward to - and probably the only one I'm likely to buy too!

 Azreal13 wrote:


That they're making plastic terrain suggests anticipation of a certain volume of sales. If they're confident of that volume, or, indeed, to stimulate the demand for that volume, there's a very real chance they'll price some of the basic stuff at a much lower margin than their normal one. Plus I'm sure there's steps they could take to mitigate the cost that they may not usually, such as a design that is easier on the molds (not too many spikes bits etc.)

I agree, but at the same time I struggle to see GW/FW releasing any game that isn't supported with terrain.

 Azreal13 wrote:

I expect the Titans will be highly modular, and there's plenty of opportunity to make alternate weapons systems, armour sets etc which, if the existing shoulder pad, tank door etc sets are anything to go by, will yield a substantial margin and help mitigate the lower profit on the core models. Plus other Titan marques can be priced at more of a premium.

It will be interesting to see how FW will approach it. It seems clear they're at least aiming for separate weapons. With the warlord it wouldn't be surprising if certain alternate bits are sold separately but with the smaller titans I imagine it'll be more likely that FW does like they did with Dreadnoughts by doing distinctive variants and faction marked versions as entirely new models.

Also, FW could easily do different patterns of Titans- Mars and Lucius are both done for the 3 main titans, and there are artworks all over the place covering other patterns as well.

Which would be a series of devastating counterpoints were I arguing the game was going to be "DoA", or that pricing is the only reason why, or that FW are unaware that expensive resin only will almost certainly result in lower volume.

The post I was replying to specifically was:

DrRansom wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Er, so you already knew the answer? OK!

I don't think there's any doubt that this will be a success and we'll get all the Other Stuff in there eventually.

Really? If the army costs are about 500, assuming a Warlord and Warlord equivalent are about 125, I can't see the game becoming so much of a success that Forgeworld expands it. That is still pretty expensive for an unproven game system from a company known to drop the games it creates.

You were even responding while I posted with:

Really? I have no doubt it will make FW a profit, but if the pricing is what I think it will be I have strong doubts it will be big enough to generate substantial further investment in the line. Aeronautica Imperialis was a fantastic game with lovely models, but it was expensive enough that only a subset of a niche audience bought in and it flopped, hard.

So, yeah, the post was specifically addressing whether it was going to be a success (not DoA) based purely on price.

I'm just hoping we at least get to see a lot of the legion stuff released - when I asked at the open day they said the game was mostly about the Titans and the knights when I was fishing for how soon we'd see infantry. So I think they are pretty low priority.

New barracuda:




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Forgeworld are definitely moving to support magnets it seems:

The Tau Barracuda AX-5-2 is an advanced fighter suitable for both aerial combat and ground attack missions. It can be armed with a Heavy Burst Cannon, Barracuda Ion Cannon or Swiftstrike Railgun. It carries twin missile pods, multiple seeker missiles, a pair of Gun Drones mounted with either Long-barrelled Cyclic Ion Blasters or Long-barrelled Burst Cannon and a Decoy Drone. All of these options are included for you to choose from when sending your Barracuda into battle. The kit features multiple fitting points for magnets which you may choose to use to allow you to easily swap weapons systems, and also optional raised or lowered landing gear. The detailed construction guide includes guidance on suitable magnet sizes you may wish to use.

Rules for you

Next year Barricuda. Next year. :( This year is Ta'unars time. By next year I'll likely have some more dosh to grab some FW stuff. I might pick up a pair of these since they are so beautiful. As well as some XV9's.

Edit
FW website has new paint jobs for some of their stuff. The R'varna in particular look cool with its new paint job and is making me want one.

Combat Role
• Strike-flyer

GOD DAMMIT FW. You had one job, and you couldn't even do it. The Barracuda is an air superiority fighter, it should NOT be worse at the job than whatever ugly brick the space marines get. Unless this is meant to be the ultimate "DFTS is stupid, don't use it" statement someone needs to get fired over this.

Welp feth that. It can wait. Units with roles before units that look cool.

That is the single biggest deal killer ever. Making it a strike flyer kills it. Kills it so badly. It might even be worse than the codex fliers now. Strike Fliers are the ones who have BS reduced to 1 against air targets right? The railgun is a 20 point upgrade? Jeez. Get the hell out of here. Should be a -20 point downgrade.

I guess I should be glad they didn't include rules for Stormcloud Attack then, that thing is beastly.

What is different about stormcloud attack vs DftS? Also it for nerfed. No reason to take the vehicle upgrade that boosts jink saves since this thing is capped at a 3+ now. Holy gak this thing sucks for its point cost.

It's a completely different game!

Also, they mention that it is a "Strike-flyer", this type is not mentioned in the Death from the Skies book, unless it's another one of FW's famous typos.

I'm pretty sure Strike Flyer is multirole isn't it?

 Gamgee wrote:
Strike Fliers are the ones who have BS reduced to 1 against air targets right?

Right. AKA "our best air superiority fighter can't hit anything". I guess Tau are supposed to take C:SM allies for AA?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gamgee wrote:
I'm pretty sure Strike Flyer is multirole isn't it?

No. It's a ground attack flyer that uses guns instead of bombs, they can't have skyfire.

If we could ignore the silly flyer rules added in that supplement this would be a good flyer, but as it is this is not great.

I mean, you can ignore DftS if you want.

Most people do.

 BrookM wrote:
Also, they mention that it is a "Strike-flyer", this type is not mentioned in the Death from the Skies book, unless it's another one of FW's famous typos.

Oh, huh, you're right. It is "attack", not "strike". Maybe if we can get them to fix it we can get it changed to "fighter" like it should be.

inb4 the next IA book defines Strike-flyer as a new Combat Role that's a combination between Fighters and Attack-flyers.

I mean, it's possible, right? Right?

Now I'm confused. Did they mess it up? In real life military a strike fighter is multi role fighter that primarily is meant to attack ground targets.

I would laugh if they then saddled it with the bomber classification.

Edit
Basically it's a multi role fighter with more points put into speed agility and ground attack.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
inb4 the next IA book defines Strike-flyer as a new Combat Role that's a combination between Fighters and Attack-flyers.

I mean, it's possible, right? Right?

Common sense has no place in this here thread.

More updates.
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Tau-Experimental-Battlesuit-Cadre

Also, the studio R'vana and Y'vahra have been repainted in Vior'la colors.

The Barracuda is £80.

If it's not crippled with 1BS then this is a good fighter. Still a little frail but not bad. The auto targetting CIB's will make great additions to its firepower. I imagine a popular build will be all ion weapons. 11 STR 7 shots its scary stuff. Overall it could actually see it replacing Broadside teams. It's actually more cost effective. The big issue is the survivability, but it's more mobile. Then again it also only gets one good pass on most targets and it might not come in turn 2 when you need it.

What does the strafing run rule do?

A little frail? It's tougher than (or as tough as) most other flyers!

 Gamgee wrote:
What does the strafing run rule do?

+1 BS when shooting at ground targets.

gak man, do you even play?

 BrookM wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
What does the strafing run rule do?

+1 BS when shooting at ground targets.

gak man, do you even play?

Haven't seen a flyer grace a table in my life. Nor painted on any shelf of any 40k gamer I know. I don't play at our community because of logistics but I know flyers are nearly unheard of there. They use ITC and a lot of tough lists. Our community is easily 40+ strong with people having a few armies each. My cousin has a built and quarter painted Valkyrie or something that he never uses and thinks looks ugly as hell (he hates his paint job). Other than that singular exception I have never heard nor seen a 40k flyer. I don't even use the rules it's so rare let alone the ones in DftS supplement which has been laughed off.

Edit
In this case it is one of the best flyers around easily. Might even be in the top 5 now. However that classification could make or break this beautiful model so I will wait to hold judgement. My community doesn't use flyers, but if it can find a way to make someone use worse rules it will. Despite the book getting panned by the community they would still insist I use it of course as its only fair and "official". This attitude has creeped into the few players I had played with.

Edit2
Also going on... a year with no play now.

What size magnets are these hallowed hard points equipped to carry?

Hopefully ones listed in MM's and not ten quarters of half an inch like some companies do..

Forgeworld Death from the Skies update

 Gamgee wrote:
Now I'm confused. Did they mess it up? In real life military a strike fighter is multi role fighter that primarily is meant to attack ground targets.

I would laugh if they then saddled it with the bomber classification.

Edit
Basically it's a multi role fighter with more points put into speed agility and ground attack.

A strike fighter aircraft is a multirole fighter. A strike aircraft is simply a ground attack aircraft mostly used for close air support.