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So I am looking for some constructive criticism. I have about 4-5 games at 1850 under my belt, and this is my first time playing 40k so your help in any fashion is appreciated. I am thinking about taking out Creed and upgrading my russes to punishers. I am also pondering putting my hq in a vendetta given the ruling that my astropath and officer of fleet are still alive and so their board effects take place. I would have a junior officer on the field in their place.

I grew to love this game when I was twelve and just got into it at twenty-two, and have always liked the IG. I am having a blast (large blasts actually), but am hoping the community can help me progress with my list that has had some progress in the small group I am playing with. I've found that I really like the orders and the squadron of basilisks. I may be competing in a small scale tournament in the next month!

Thanks for any help/ fun conversation you can offer. I hope to be reading away as I paint this weekend.

- K


1. HQ: 205 pts
- Company Command Squad
- Creed
- Astropath
- Officer of the Fleet
- vox

2. Troops: (two groups, I throw the platoon command squads in my vendettas)
- Platoon Command Squad (265 pts)
- Infantry, vox, plasma
- Infantry, plasma, commissar
- Infantry, plasma

- Platoon Command Squad (265 pts)
- Infantry, vox, plasma
- Infantry, plasma, commissar
- Infantry, plasma

3. Fast: (not a squad)
- Vendetta (140 pts)
- heavy bolter sponsons

- Vendetta (140 pts)
- heavy bolter sponsons

- Vendetta (130 pts)

4. Heavy Support
- Rus (165 pts)
- Lascannon

- Rus (165 pts)
- Lascannon

- Basilisk (375 pts)
- Basilisk
- Basilisk

Drop the sponsons on the vendettas and give you rPlatoon Command squads flamers so when you drop them off they can clear some units off objectives or kill off a huge chunk of a blob. Drop the lascannons of the russes as the new FAQ replased lumbering behemoth with heavy so russes the fire ordnance weapons have to snip fire everything else so you are essetially paying 15pts for a bs1 lascannon. Drop 1 basilisk as it is over kill to have 3 in a squad. Use the points from the 2 lascannons and the basilisk to form up some more troops or get creeds squad a chimera for protection. But great list so far, pretty much correct as i said and your doing pretty good the only problem us just having so little troops at this point level.

Thanks for the input!

It is a shame that russes no longer have lumbering behemoth. Having flamers on the platoon command squads sounds amazing, I never thought of that! Easily worth losing the heavy bolter sponsons. I will have to play test only two basilisks in a squadron, as how could I refuse more guardsmen? (more basilisks is the answer to that).

Welcome to the Imperial Guard!

It's not a bad list, especially considering that you're new to Guard, but there is some room for tweaking. Going from the top...

Creed is a big target, so I would suggest stashing him and his squad in a Chimera. I don't have any experience playing him myself, but I know a few IG players that recommend him.

Are you running your Platoon Command Squads without any upgrades? That's not a bad idea if you just want them to function as late game objective grabbers, though if you can find the points, it might be worthwhile to give them Flamers. Dropping into position and flaming a soft target can be quite effective, when it works (people are crazy for Flamers right now, since there are so many infantry hordes out there).

The Heavy Bolter sponsons on your Vendettas aren't a great option. Typically, you want your Vendettas to be shooting at armored targets, tanks and 2+ Save models. The Heavy Bolters don't have great synergy with that, though they're cheap enough that you can probably get away with keeping them to help your Vendettas deal with larger units of softer targets.

Ordnance Russes are really no longer good carriers for your Lascannons, since the new rules force them to snap fire all other weapons on the turn that they fire their main gun. Heavy Flamers are popular for point defence, though I'm a fan of Heavy Bolters since I find that my Russes very rarely get into Heavy Flamer range of anything. I see that you're considering Punishers. They're a fun unit, but they're not particularly competitive. If you want a dakka Russ (that is, a Russ that puts out a lot of shots), consider a Leman Russ Exterminator with Hull and Sponson Heavy Bolters. You're not getting as many shots, but you're getting better shots, and your four Strength 7 Autocannon shots get re-rolls to hit.

I haven't run the Basilisk, but I have faced Manticores plenty of times. Three Basilisks would put out a disgusting volume of shots, but they're also an easy target for your opponent and one that loses effectiveness as the battle goes on and your opponent draws closer to your lines. I would consider losing one of them in favor of a Veteran Squad in a Chimera. Mobility can be key in the game, since you may need to contest or capture a distant objective. Your Vendettas and Russes will already be drawing a lot of fire (not to mention your Basilisks), so you may be able to use that to your advantage in order to keep your Chimera Vets relatively unmolested early in the game until they're able to take a position.

Yea i run my PCS with flamers and i grav shute them with the vendettas, so there is a chance they will scatter and die but they are great for getting late game objectives and creating many wounds on a unit holding an objective. As SKaerKrow mentioned if your using creed you will want something for him to hide in but if you think of creeds strengths its giving 4 orders at great ranges and if i recall correctly most of the good orders need to have line of sight to the enemy like bring it down or orbital relays. from what it looks like you are running 2 blob squads in which your only giving 2 orders too and once they get tied up in combat they wont be able to give the orders to them as it will be no use. so i would suggest maybe dropping creed as it would be pointless to use his tactical genius on anything in the list at this level. I would just run a CCS in a chimera with x3 plasma guns and the vox at this point and then drop on basilisk. So lets drop the vendettas sponsons, drop lascannons on the russes, drop one basilisk, and then drop creed=270pts left. Take a CCS with a chimera and x3plasma a vox=115 left. Then give x4 flamers to each of the PCS giving you 75 pts left. Now if you arrange your infantry squads around so theres 4 squads in 1 platoon and 2 in the other you could buy another commissar and have 3 20man blobs so you get another scoring unit that also will give you another squad to give an order too which will then leave you with 40pts. For 65pts you could also throw marbo in there. Maybe throw some power axes or power swords on your sergeants and commissars for 10pts a piece.

Thats the best advice i could probably do for your list that would improve it. Personally i played with punushers to test them and i find them to be not worth their pts. I even used pask in 1 and he did great against monsterous creatures but to be honest your best off running LRBT or Demolishers as those are probably your best bests for LR's although the exterminator with bolters sounds like it wouldnt be too bad.

Awesome thanks for the advice! I think creed is definitely gone, same with a basilisk. I am now considering taking out one of the vendettas, I'm rather interested in the banewolf or the hellhound. And more blobs are to come!

You two are proving some of my friends reviews of dakka to be correct. Helpful, and kind to newbies like me ^^.

So, your initial list really isn't that bad. I like the HB sponsons on the vendettas, and I think the 3x basilisk squad is blast-tastic.

I do agree, though, that creed is a rather questionable choice, and the PCSs really do need weapons, and, of course, the problem with russes (though 3x HB on ordnance isn't THAT bad).

My biggest concern, actually, is the anti-tank. Yes, you have 3 vendettas, and that's great, but that's also 3 swatted fliers away from having very little serious anti-tank. Those basilisks and russes are good for peeling off HP, but not for destroying vehicles outright. This is especially a problem given that vendettas aren't going to arrive until at least turn 2.

Also, if you're looking into blobbing up those infantry squads around the commissars, you're looking at only 2 serious scoring units, which isn't enough for this points level. In fact, 77 infantry models is a little light at this points level as well. If you spend too many points on support units at the expense of scoring units, you might find yourself in a bit of a jam against armies that are focused on winning the scoring unit battle. Most games are objective based, which might give you problems.

It's not a terrible list, though. Welcome to the guard.

You could add a hellhound or bane wolf but the only problem is that it generally needs to be relatively close and as the rest or your army is a lot slower and its really the only av12 that will be on the board for turn 1 and possibly turn 2 if your vendettas dont come in which will pretty much mean it will get shot up. but that willl allow you to advance your infantry more.

Updated list ^^, the help has been awesome so far

HQ: Command Squad + vox + Astropath + Officer of the Fleet = 115
Troops:
- Platoon Command Squad + Flamer + Flamer = 275 (in vendetta)
- Troop + vox + commissar + plasma
- Troop + plasma
- Troop + plasma

- Platoon Command Squad + Flamer + Flamer = 275 (in vendetta)
- Troop + vox + commissar + plasma
- Troop + plasma
- Troop + plasma

- Platoon Command Squad + Vox= 240
- Troop + vox + commissar + melta
- Troop + melta
- Troop
- Chimera (dedicated to company command)

Fast:
- Vendetta = 130
- Vendetta = 130

Heavy:

Punisher + Pask = 230

Exterminator = 150

basilisk= 250
basilisk

I wouldn't favor OotF personally. Since you have Vendettas, if your opponent has flyers you want them to arrive first, so you can shoot them down when your Vendettas arrive. OotF will delay them, making your Vendettas vulnerable.

With all the melta and plasma in those Platoons, I wonder if you wouldn't be better turning one into a couple of Veteran squads in Chimeras. I think if you drop the voxes you could afford it.

Your Platoons and Basilisks give you tons of anti-infantry, making the Punisher a bit redundant. The Pask/Punisher combo is lots of fun, but very expensive for a job that's already handled well.

I like a pair of Executioners at this point level. Your two Russes could be traded for those evenly. They do monstrous things to transports, terminators, infantry... everything that doesn't have AV14. And you have Basilisks and melta for that.

Edit: Executioners are expensive to a lot of people, so the standard Battle Tank or Demolisher is also favored. With all the infantry I'd suggest more range over more punch, so if you don't care for Executioners use the LRBT.

So, something you probably weren't aware of: infantry platoons count as a single unit for the purposes of reserves. This means that, amongst other things, you can't put a part of a platoon in reserves and deploy another part of the same platoon on the table. They've all got to go in, or they've all got to go on the table. As such, your plans for putting PCSs in the vendettas isn't going to work.

Also not the biggest fan of the officer of the fleet or pask here. If you lightened things up a bit and shuffled them around, you'd have the points for 3 vendettas and 3 russes of some type.

I'm also gonna be starting a guard army soon I think I may take some of your ideas

Just in case anyone was interested in my latest updates. Although I really like the russes, I took them out for six hydra flak tanks just sounds like a better idea, and my hope is to spam 12 shots from each squadron, which should be capable of taking down a fair amount of fliers, and glance the high armor stuff. I'll have to depend on my vendettas to take care of land raiders, ect.

HQ: Command Squad + Astropath= 80
Troops:
- Platoon Command Squad = 295
- Troop + commissar + plasma
- Troop + plasma
- Troop
- Troop

- Platoon Command Squad = 295
- Troop + commissar + plasma
- Troop + plasma
- Troop
- Troop

- Veterans (demo, with shotguns) (in the vendetta) +flamer +flamer =110

- Veterans (demo, with shotguns) (in the vendetta) +flamer +flamer =110

Fast:
- Vendetta = 130
- Vendetta = 130

Heavy:

- Hydra = 225
- Hydra
- Hydra

- Hydra = 225
- Hydra
- Hydra

basilisk= 250
basilisk

You know in 6th Edition the Hydras have to snap fire against ground targets, right? Want to make sure that's all clear before commenting on the rest.

Unless your playing against a lot of air, i wouldnt have 6 hydras and 2 vendettas. Just seems like overkill and as mentioned hydras can shoot at normal bs at flyers but have to snap fire at ground units so it makes them kinda bad.

Thanks for all the help. I did not know that hydras had to snap fire at ground units. I think I will be slimming it down to 2-3 hydras, adding a russ of some variety and perhaps an aegis defense line. I would love suggestions about what kind of russ I should add.

You're good on range with the Basilisks. I'd try a Demolisher to create a zone of denial in front of your Platoons. Anything that wants to come across to them deals with a S10, AP1 monster shot.

Aegis is nearly always worth it for a Guard player. I find the Quad-Gun is well worth its points.

just make sure you use Tactical genius to your advantage.

"Wait where did that rus-.....CREEEEEED!"

If you're going to lighten the hydras, spend the points you saved on getting some guns for your infantry squads. They look pretty sad having only lasguns.

Deffinitly get heavy weapons and special weapons on the troops, they will need the support. As for russ varients I go with the barebones LRBT but if you want someting up in your opponents face then nothings better than the beastly demolisher.

I just played a game with the demolisher russ, I felt that it was more or less a basilisk. I like the idea of having so many chances with a punisher. I have included lascannons in my guardsmen blobs so that I can deal with high toughness items. And probably the best note is that this list only requires me to buy 25 more cadians, a chimera, and two sets of supplies to convert chimeras into hydras.

My concerns are 1) My guardsmen blobs are too small. 2) My command squad is vulnerable without a chimera. I am hoping that my punishers will make up for a lack of pew pew.

I appreciate the advice! ^^

HQ:
- Command Squad + Astropath= 80

Troops:
- Platoon Command Squad = 265
- Troop + commissar + plasma
- Troop + plasma
- Troop + lascannon

- Platoon Command Squad = 265
- Troop + commissar + plasma
- Troop + plasma
- Troop + lascannon

- Veterans (demo, with shotguns) (in the vendetta) +flamer +flamer =110

- Veterans (demo, with shotguns) (in the vendetta) +flamer +flamer =110

Fast:
- Vendetta = 130
- Vendetta = 130

Heavy:

- Hydra = 150
- Hydra

- Punisher = 360
- Punisher

- Basilisk= 250
- Basilisk

Where'd the flamers go? I guess the platoons don't get assaulted often.
Are those Plasmas on the troops guns or cannons?

From the little I have read about IG (my main force is in the post ) the CCS has a lot of weapon options. Are none of them any good? I was going to put 2x flamers and a heavy flamer on them, in a Chimera.

This is all looking interesting, as I need to know what to get to pad out the Battleforce when it arrives.

Yes your command squad lacks fire power and survivability and will lead to an easy slay the warlord pt and possibly and easy kill pt if purge the alien is played(victory pt game). You basically have 2 vendettas and 2 lascannons that are part of a blob for anti tank. You might be better off with 2 demolishers for more effective killing power over the punishers and it will save you pts to give to your CCS

I don't think it's worth it to just have the one hydra. Go big or go home with the air war, I say. I'd drop it for more guns for the troops. Also, you probably have a way of having your HS slots be 3x basilisks, which will probably be neat.

Id drop the Hydras all together. Not everybody runs a CronAir or DFC list. Use Vendettas for anti-air and if you need more anti-tank put a Lascannon HWT into some of your Infantry Squads.

Thanks Tankboy, Allaros, and OutlawBandit! I appreciate the advice! ^^ Hydras are so yesterday :p. What do people think of sniper rifles? I find the possibility of pinning the enemies troops desirable. I may have gone overboard and may replace a few of the sniper rifles with grenade launchers. I also like the interceptor on the quad gun. I intend to plop a guard squad in there on top of an objective. Split of a group of 10 and leave one squad with 20.

HQ:
- Command Squad + Astropath + sniper + sniper + sniper= 95

Troops:
- Platoon Command Squad = 250
- Troop + commissar + sniper
- Troop + sniper
- Troop + lascannon +sniper

- Platoon Command Squad = 250
- Troop + commissar + sniper
- Troop + sniper
- Troop + lascannon + sniper

- Chimera - 55 (for the CCS)

- Veterans (demo, with shotguns) (in the vendetta) +flamer +flamer +flamer =115

- Veterans (demo, with shotguns) (in the vendetta) +flamer +flamer +flamer=115

Fast:
- Vendetta = 130
- Vendetta = 130

Heavy:

- Punisher = 180

- Punisher = 180

- Basilisk= 250
- Basilisk

Fortification:

- Aegis Defense Life + quadgun= 100

Snipers are okay, but really not great. There's a reason they're only 5 points apiece.

My biggest concern for your list, still, is the low amount of anti-tank, and of weapons for your infantry. Those PISs, for example, should each have a heavy and special weapon, and if that included either a lascannon or a meltgun, that would help with the anti-tank problem as well.

Also, I don't get the 2x punisher squad. Firstly, you still have an HS slot free, and secondly, what do you expect that 20 shots won't kill that the answer for is 20 more shots? Seems like you'd be suffering pretty badly from overkill against those things that punishers are good against.

Whoops formatting error. The punishers should be separate. I could see scaling one back to a battle tank and putting some HWTs in the PCSs

Your CCS may fare better with a lascannon. I agree, the Punishers aren't helping you. You have gobs of anti-infantry with your lasguns. There's no need to add onto that pile. Split the Russes and swap to LRBTs or Demolishers, most likely.

In your Infantry Squads, I'd scrap sniper rifles for flamers and/or autocannons. Flamers give you some defense against assaults with overwatch. Autocannons are just plain handy.

I get what you're doing with your Veterans taking flamers to air drop, but their BS4 goes to waste on the templates. Meltaguns or plasma guns are usually more effective and versatile. If you're trying to keep it assault-capable with the shotguns, use meltaguns.

If you can spare the points (maybe from the Russ downgrade), give those PCSs some special weapons, too. They can take 4; put that to use!

I would agree switch out the punishers for LRBT's or demolishers to save points, not to also mention that they are also decent at killing vehicles, well the demolisher is great. I would not take snipers on your blobs as they cant move and fire heavy weapons. flamers if your staying cheap but I would suggest plasma for doing easy wounds. If your HQ is hanging back I would suggest a lascannon over those snipers.