A question of scale...

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**Synister_Intent**

As the title states I have a question about scale. I am looking to build a Dakka squadron for my Ork army but I want to use other models, such as the p51 mustang model but don't know what scale to purchase, can someone please help me out with this? Also does any company other than GW produce flight bases for these models? Thank you in advance for any and all help you can give me.

**Dheneb**

A quick search says that Tamiya does a 1:32 model of the P-51, which is about 30cm/12in long. So 1:40-something sounds like the right size.

**winterdyne**

You'll find 1/48 a little 'skinny'. GW minatures are around 1/50 for height, 1/32 for hands and torso 'width'.

**steelcult**

I use 1/48 scale aircraft for mine - usually something random that catches my eye in the LHS - then ork em up

**Sean_OBrien**

1:48 scale aircraft - though as mentioned above, GW uses a chibi scale with their figures. Orks are even broader, so you will probably need to make some adjustments to the cockpit area in order to get them to fit.

You should be able to lessen the issue by using stocky airframes like a P-47 "Jug", I-16 and maybe some civilian racer's like Wendell William's racer or the Gee Bee. The large radial engines give the fuselage greater heft which should put them more in proportion with the deformed GW figures.

On the flight bases - you can actually get a variety of flight display bases which are made for model aircraft through suppliers who sell the models. They aren't difficult to make on your own though, just a disk and a stick (more or less).

**Squigsquasher**

I wouldn't call GW models "deformed". The problem is that because they're bigger than most models, any problems or faults are more noticeable. Orks are obviously meant to have exaggerated proportions as they aren't human, and some of the older models are a little bit disproportionate, but the modern models are largely alright. Space Marines are in very bulky armour so they will naturally look slightly disproportionate. Just putting on winter gloves can make your hands look much bigger, so imagine what thick heavy ceramite gauntlets will do. Also, once again they aren't really human, and have been modified and enhanced for strength, not aesthetics.

**winterdyne**

Squibs quashed, are you mental? GW minis are massively deformed, and purposely so. Exception is the LotR range, that's pretty much true 28. The truth of the matter is 'correct' proportions simply don't look so good on the tabletop for fantasy minis.

Edit: Squigsquasher. Gotta love iPad auto correction.

**Squigsquasher**

No, I'm not mental, they just don't look that deformed. Like I say, the older models like the Empire Outriders, Zombies, Catachans and the metal guardsmen have massively oversized hands, but more modern minis like the plastic characters they have released are much more proportionate. Even if the are deformed, they don't LOOK deformed at a glance. They still look good, and you don't notice the slight disproportionate nature of some of the models until you look up close at them.

**Foxfyre**

Winterdyne's correct, GW use heroic scale for their models meaning that the proportions are off for ease of drawing focus.
The best example I can give is to compare the following 2 products:-
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/SPACE_MARINE_MkIV_COMMAND_SET.html
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440271a&prodId=prod1050240

See the difference in the head size? That's because FW uses a scale much more in proportion than GW's heroic scale.

**Squigsquasher**

Yeah. The forgeworld head is way way too small.

In all seriousness, it just sounds like another excuse to bash GW. On top of the normal list of things (the prices are too high, the quality control isn't good enough, the fluff is bad, and more recently, they contribute to animal cruelty :facepalm) it smells heavily of typical "GW IS TERRIBLE EVERYTHING THEY MAKE SUCKS INFINITY IS BETTER!" and that gets my goat. You may have a point, I just hate bashing so much that I have knee jerk reactions to things like that.

Also the Space Marine Commander kit is quite old, their newer stuff is much better scalewise.

At least they aren't giving the female characters gravity defyingly huge breasts and ludicrously thin waists.

**blood lance**

Squigsquasher wrote:

At least they aren't giving the female characters gravity defyingly huge breasts and ludicrously thin waists.

That's because there aren't any.
-Hides-

**Squigsquasher**

*cough* Lelith Hesperax, Wyches, Sisters of Battle, Daemonettes, various Dark Eldar and Eldar models, a great deal of Bretonnian, Elf, Dark Elf models etc...*cough*.

**winterdyne**

Not bashing the scaling at all. I actually like it. As I said, it looks better on a table than 'true ' proportions, which are a bit scrawny.

**Squigsquasher**

Ah, that's fine then. I do apologize, my fanboi side does get out of control sometimes.

**Sean_OBrien**

Squigsquasher wrote:
In all seriousness, it just sounds like another excuse to bash GW.

I just find chibi to be a more appropriate word than heroic. Heroic things are idealized. Batman, Superman, Wolverine - even something like Michelangelo's David. Chibi is child like, larger heads, hands and feet - shorter torso, arms and legs. When you compare the miniatures to the artwork - they are chibi representations of the artwork in most cases (Tau, Tyranids, Eldar and Necron being generally less chibi).

I use the same term to apply to other miniature manufacturers when compared to ones like Dark Sword who strive to provide realistic proportions. Neither is necessarily bad - however it provides a point of reference for comparison that heroic doesn't to someone who is looking to find a vehicle which might work with them or are otherwise trying to figure out their "scale". Proper scales don't work with them because they are deformed though. A 1/48 scale aircraft is about the correct size compared to existing GW kits - however you will need to modify the cockpit because the chibi figures are broader with orks being even more so. Nothing there which is bashing GW, just answering the question asked.

**Eilif**

Squicssquasher,
Just for general "good-to-know" info, GW figures (and most miniatures for that matter) are to some degree "Heroic" in scale. This means that they are bulkier than a truely-to-scale models wil be. There are many reasons for this, a few of which are...

1) To show detail in a small model. Many people prefer the look of a figure that is heroic because it's easier to see detail and the artistry of the sculptor comes across well even when not viewed close up.
2) To make the model sturdier. True-scale models often have very very thin joints.
3) To make their models distinct from everyone elses. This is not as much an issue anymore as most models are heroic, but the degree of heroicness is one of the quickest ways to tell lines of models apart.

Sean_OBrien wrote:
1:48 scale aircraft ...

...You should be able to lessen the issue by using stocky airframes like a P-47 "Jug", I-16 and maybe some civilian racer's like Wendell William's racer or the Gee Bee. The large rotary engines give the fuselage greater heft which should put them more in proportion with the deformed GW figures.

Hit the nail on the head. Most of the more common and well know combat aircraft have nice slender airframes, but some of the oddites like the ones mentioned above have a chunky look that folks have used for ork aircraft.
Here's one fellow who used a Gee Bee.

If that's roughly the look you're going for, I'd stick with 1/48 fighter planes and racing aircraft. Head to your model shop and look at the sides of the boxes and you will often see forward profiles and angled shots that show which aircraft have the bulk you will need.

Best of Luck!

**Squigsquasher**

Yeah, like I say, I do get a bit over righteous when it comes to GW, and I apologize. You definately have a point.

Actual chibi Warhammer would be awesome though.

**Sean_OBrien**

Don't be afraid to get outside of the box either. If you like something like a P-51 or a Spitfire, consider using them in a double configuration like the F-82 and then having an additional area for the ork pilot. The regular cockpits should be pretty close to grot sized. Almost giving it a configuration like a P-38. Would be extra orky if you used a Spitfire on one side and a Mustang on the other.

Another interesting choice (though somewhat more difficult to find) would be a real odd ball like an Abrams P-1 Explorer. Having an ork prone with his head sticking out the bubble canopy on the front would look pretty slick IMO. I know there was one manufacturer of a resin kit for that about 10 years ago (picked it up from Wonderfest...but I don't recall who made it). There are some paper templates for it as well that might be useful if you are up to the task.