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Was told that I can only fire Snap Shots after jinking with my heldrake.

Problem is, Fire Shield + Invisibility was up on him. He was also in Hover mode.

Is that a Jink? If he Zooms next turn, can he not shoot his Baleflamer? Are there 2 different cover saves happening here (both of which are the same value)? Must I always Jink if I want to claim a cover save at all?

No, Jinking is a specific option for a Zooming flyer. You don't have to Jink to claim a coversave if you can source the cover save from something other than the Jink special rule. If you didn't elect to Jink, you aren't bound by it's drawbacks.

 Brometheus wrote:
Was told that I can only fire Snap Shots after jinking with my heldrake.

Only if you use the Evade special rule.

Problem is, Fire Shield + Invisibility was up on him. He was also in Hover mode.

Fast Skimmers get Jink whenever they move. They cannot Evade, as only Zooming Flyers can.

Is that a Jink? If he Zooms next turn, can he not shoot his Baleflamer?

If he Zooms he can fire the Baleflamer, only if he does not use the Skyfire special rule, in which case he must target a non-Zooming Flyer/Swooping FMC.

Are there 2 different cover saves happening here (both of which are the same value)? Must I always Jink if I want to claim a cover save at all?

Yes. You have Jink + Invisibility, and Fire Shield + Invisibility. In either case you would have the same Cover Save.

You must Evade in order to gain Jink while Zooming, and subsequently can only fire Snap shots. If you were Hovering, you have the Jink rule without having to Snap Shot.

If you have a cover save from some other source than Evade (which lets you Jink), then you do not have to Evade and are not bound to Snap Shot. Invisibility itself would give you a 4+ cover save by means of the Shrouded and Stealth. Not sure about Fire Shield.

Chrysis wrote:
No, Jinking is a specific option for a Zooming flyer. You don't have to Jink to claim a coversave if you can source the cover save from something other than the Jink special rule. If you didn't elect to Jink, you aren't bound by it's drawbacks.

You are thinking of "Evade". All (Fast) Skimmers have Jink.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fragile wrote:
You must Evade in order to gain Jink while Zooming, and subsequently can only fire Snap shots. If you were Hovering, you have the Jink rule without having to Snap Shot.

If you have a cover save from some other source than Evade (which lets you Jink), then you do not have to Evade and are not bound to Snap Shot. Invisibility itself would give you a 4+ cover save by means of the Shrouded and Stealth. Not sure about Fire Shield.

4+ cover if the weapon being fired does not have Melta or Soul Blaze.

Why not Melta or Soul Blaze, Happy?

Happyjew wrote:

Chrysis wrote:
No, Jinking is a specific option for a Zooming flyer. You don't have to Jink to claim a coversave if you can source the cover save from something other than the Jink special rule. If you didn't elect to Jink, you aren't bound by it's drawbacks.

You are thinking of "Evade". All (Fast) Skimmers have Jink.

You're right, I am. Getting a cover save from Jink doesn't confer any drawbacks. Getting a cover save from Jink because you're a Zooming Flyer who chose to Evade does, but because you chose to Evade not because of Jink.

Fragile wrote:
Why not Melta or Soul Blaze, Happy?

Thats for fire shield, among other things it give 4+ cover against non-melta/soul blaze weapons.

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Why not Melta or Soul Blaze, Happy?

Thats for fire shield, among other things it give 4+ cover against non-melta/soul blaze weapons.

Ah, dont have the codex with me atm. Invisibility itself gives a 4+ cover save. So with Fire Shield it would be a 2+ unless the weapon has Melta or Soul Blaze ?

Is Invisibility a 4+ cover save specifically or +2 to your cover save? If it's specifically a 4+ cover save it won't stack with Fire Shield, if it has some provision to add to existing saves ala Stealth and Shrouded it will.

Chrysis wrote:
Is Invisibility a 4+ cover save specifically or +2 to your cover save? If it's specifically a 4+ cover save it won't stack with Fire Shield, if it has some provision to add to existing saves ala Stealth and Shrouded it will.

Funny you should say that because, (among other things) Invisibility gives Stealth and Shrouded. Thats where the 4+ comes from.

That's what I suspected, but didn't have the book on hand to check.

Might be worth pointing out that if you Zoom and Evade (Jink) you can't fire the Baleflamer next turn at all as you can't fire templates with Snapshot.

i think.

 Praxiss wrote:
Might be worth pointing out that if you Zoom and Evade (Jink) you can't fire the Baleflamer next turn at all as you can't fire templates with Snapshot.

i think.

The OP was in hover mode

 Praxiss wrote:
Might be worth pointing out that if you Zoom and Evade (Jink) you can't fire the Baleflamer next turn at all as you can't fire templates with Snapshot.

i think.

Do Helldrakes not get a 5++ Daemon save?
So it's really not worth evading unless you're stacking cover bonuses.

Good point - the heldrake never needs to use the Evade rule as it has a 5++ already!

Thanks everyone, just making sure I'm not going crazy.

Fragile wrote:

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Why not Melta or Soul Blaze, Happy?

Thats for fire shield, among other things it give 4+ cover against non-melta/soul blaze weapons.

Ah, dont have the codex with me atm. Invisibility itself gives a 4+ cover save. So with Fire Shield it would be a 2+ unless the weapon has Melta or Soul Blaze ?

Nvm misread rules