Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Greetings All

This weekend gone while perusing the local car boot sale I stumbled across a couple of bargains for the Late War Germans. Tigers Marsch box and the Panzer IVH Platoon Boxset so I promptly snapped both up for the bargain price of £20. Anyways having looked online at army lists and army builders I think that I have perhaps stumbled upon my 1750 list for a local tournament in where I plan on learning the majority of the rules as well as my own forces. I have to purchase 4 Items (2 x Flak Panzer 38's, Bergpanzer and Tiger #6)

Anyways enough waffling on

Schwere Panzer Company HQ - 445 pts
1x CIC Tiger I, 1x 2iC Tiger I
Recovery Vehicle - 1x Bergpanther Recovery

Compulsory Schwere Panzer Platoon - 430 pts
1x Command Tiger IE, 1x Tiger I E

Compulsory Schwere Panzer Platoon - 430 pts
1x Command Tiger IE, 1x Tiger I E

Panzer Anti-Aircraft Gun Platoon - 80 pts
1x Command Flakpanzer 38(t), 1x Flakpanzer 38(t)

Panzer Platoon - 360 pts
1x Command Panzer IVH, 3x Panzer IVH

1745 Points, 4 Platoons

10 Tanks

For 1745 points You have way too few tanks. Congrats on getting those deals, but You'd better with taking mechinfantry support than Panzers IV. In the objectives game You will be outnumbered and outmaneuvered, though not that much outgunned (at least concerning Tigers ofc).

Indeed. Great bargain, and a nice compact force - but its too small. You've no infantry, you've no artillery, you dont have enough troops to cover objectives. Plenty of firepower there yes, but not enough staying power. Lose 3-4 tanks and it starts looking desperate

If its a learning force then its OK. It isn't ideal though as its very small and entirely armoured. PLus you will only be learning the rules for armour.

An infantry platoon and some recce would really help you out.

From the other hand - You still got decent bargain for armoured/schwere tank sections or almost a half of German LW tank company, which needs at least 5 Panzers IV . Put together two of them as HQ, the remaining three are combat platoon, then grab Open Fire for those StuGs as second combat platoon and you also get infantry and two artillery from the same set as well. A Tiger or two, and You are good to roll for starter games!

Ok so how about something like this?

Schwere Panzer Company HQ - 240 pts
1x CIC Tiger I
Recovery Vehicle - 1x Bergpanther Recovery

Compulsory Schwere Panzer Platoon - 430 pts
1x Command Tiger IE, 1x Tiger I E

Compulsory Schwere Panzer Platoon - 430 pts
1x Command Tiger IE, 1x Tiger I E

Panzer Anti-Aircraft Gun Platoon - 80 pts
1x Command Flakpanzer 38(t), 1x Flakpanzer 38(t)

Panzer Platoon - 270 pts
1x Command Panzer IVH, 2x Panzer IVH

Panzergrenadier Platoon - 195 pts
1x Command Panzerfaust SMG, 1x Kfz 15 field Car, 6x MG, 3x Kfz 70 Truck

Rocket Launcher Battery - 105 pts
1x Command SMG, 1x Observer Rifle, 1x Kubelwagen, 3x 15cm NW41 rocket launcher

1750 Points, 6 Platoons

That looks fine.

The one thing that you are missing is recce. Recce is very important for armoured lists as it restricts the placement of enemy ambushes. Its not vital of course.

I would swap out the AA for a small panzer scout platoon and the PanzerGrens for Grenadiers.

Schwere Panzer Company HQ - 240 pts
1x CIC Tiger I
1x Bergpanther Recovery

Compulsory Schwere Panzer Platoon - 430 pts
1x Command Tiger IE, 1x Tiger I E

Compulsory Schwere Panzer Platoon - 430 pts
1x Command Tiger IE, 1x Tiger I E

Panzer Anti-Aircraft Gun Platoon - 80 pts
1x Command Flakpanzer 38(t), 1x Flakpanzer 38(t)

Schwere Panzer Armoured Scout Platoon - 260 pts
1x Command Panzerfaust SMG, 6x MG, 7x Sd Kfz 251/1

Grenadier Platoon - 165 pts
1x Command Panzerfaust Rifle/MG, 6x Rifle/MG

Rocket Launcher Battery - 145 pts
1x Command SMG, 2x Observer Rifle, 2x Kubelwagen, 4x 15cm NW41 rocket launcher

1750 Points, 6 Platoons

Better? Sorry i want to keep my AA

Thats lots better!
AA is fine.(Very useful as anti infantry if no air threat is present.)

Ill have a quick look at the Schwere Panzer list and get back to you if there are any other options that may be worth mentioning....

Carpe_Jugular wrote:

Better? Sorry i want to keep my AA

Any particular reason why? Air has never been all that dangerous in FoW and while AA can be effective against infantry they need to get close to do so which makes them easy to kill given their lack of armour. If you really want AA then either Mobelwagens/Wirbelwinds or Luftwaffe FlaK 43s would be my suggestions.

Armoured scout platoons aren't recce, the only recce teams available to this list is the panzer scout platoon.

Palindrome wrote:

Carpe_Jugular wrote:

Better? Sorry i want to keep my AA

Any particular reason why? Air has never been all that dangerous in FoW and while AA can be effective against infantry they need to get close to do so which makes them easy to kill given their lack of armour.

Armoured scout platoons aren't recce, the only recce teams available to this list is the panzer scout platoon.

Yes I want to keep the AA as a family member manned one

Why do I need Recce? Sorry if its a rather obvious question

Recce does 2 main jobs. Firstly they can make enemy teams easier to hit but their main role in Armour lists is that they create a bubble around themselves which prevents enemy ambushes. Ambushing AT assests will absolutely shred even a Tiger platoon, most of the time at least. They aren't essential but they will make your life easier and its seomthing that I always include in armoured lists (generally the cheapest armoured car option though).

Their combat role is very limited but they can still take out soft targets like artillery.

IMO I'd try out the AA for a few games and if you find yourself suffering from ambush and not so much from air, then swap it for recce. Careful maneuver can limit the areas that the enemy can use for ambush, and you can lay smoke across likely fire lanes.
A bit of air support will ruin your infantry's day as they advance, maybe not with casualties, but certainly with pinning, and whilst you can safely avoid most of your opponents dedicated AT fire using smoke and concealment, if their sturmoviks cripple one tiger a turn you'll soon be in the stink...

 Exhumed wrote:
if their sturmoviks cripple one tiger a turn you'll soon be in the stink...

Thats a pretty big if though.

Here is another option....(Fast recon on motorcycles, and some pioneers for flexibility .To replace Schwere Panzer scout /not actualy a recon unit,)

HEADQUARTERS
Schwere Panzer Company HQ 1x CIC Tiger I
- Recovery Vehicle Bergpanther


COMBAT
Compulsory Schwere Panzer Platoon 1x Command Tiger IE, 1x Tiger I E

Compulsory Schwere Panzer Platoon 1x Command Tiger IE, 1x Tiger I E

WEAPONS
Panzer Pioneer Platoon 1x Command Pioneer SMG/Panzerfaust, 1x Schwimmwagen, 2x Pioneer MG, 2x Opel Maultier

Panzer Anti-Aircraft Gun Platoon 1x Command Flakpanzer 38(t), 1x Flakpanzer 38(t)

Panzer Scout Platoon 1x Command Motorcycle SMG/Panzerfaust, 3x Motorcycle MG

-SUPPORT

Grenadier Platoon 1x Command SMG/Panzerfaust, 6x Rifle/MG

Rocket Launcher Battery 1x Command SMG, 2x Observer Rifle, 2x Kubelwagen, 4x 15cm NW41 rocket launcher

just a thought...

Not bad lanrak, seems like a lot of rather small platoons though.
As for the likelyhood of enemy air causing damage, Allied air can be taken as priority (rather than the feeble sporadic available to axis) and, I assume, can come with the equivalent loadout to a 129a panzerknacker, carrying something like an AT15 or so rocket which will of course munch through tiger side armour and also benefit from "Flying Tank".
That's what I'd be worried about, anyway. A few crappy bombs won't bother tigers, ofc...

 Exhumed wrote:

As for the likelyhood of enemy air causing damage, Allied air can be taken as priority (rather than the feeble sporadic available to axis) and, I assume, can come with the equivalent loadout to a 129a panzerknacker, carrying something like an AT15 or so rocket which will of course munch through tiger side armour and also benefit from "Flying Tank"

They still need to hit though (assuming the aircraft even turn up), and if you aren't parking your tigers in the open thats not all that likely. Air power doesn't really worry me.

The Hs129 B3 is also unique as it had a 75mm gun strapped to it. Ground attack aircraft typically have cannon with AT values ranging between 7-9 and AT 6 rockets.

Fair one.

So how about something like this

Schwere Panzer Company HQ - 240 pts
1x CIC Tiger I
1x Bergpanther Recovery

Compulsory Schwere Panzer Platoon - 430
1x Command Tiger IE, 1x Tiger I E

Compulsory Schwere Panzer Platoon - 430
1x Command Tiger IE, 1x Tiger I E

Panzer Anti-Aircraft Gun Platoon - 80 pts
1x Command Sd Kfz 7/1 (Quad 2cm) Half-track
1x Sd Kfz 7/1 (Quad 2cm) Half-track

Panzer Scout Platoon - 110 pts
1x Command Motorcycle MG, 2x Motorcycle MG

Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon - 230 pts
1x Command Panzerfaust SMG, 1x Sd Kfz 251/1 or 251/10, 6x MG, 3x Sd Kfz 251/1

Armoured Rocket Launcher Battery - 230 pts
1x Command SMG, 1x Kfz 15 field Car, 1x Observer Rifle, 1x kubelwagen, 4x Panzerwerfer 42
4x Additional Crew

1750 points, 6 Platoons

Thats fine and you have everything covered. The only issue is that the Sd Kfz 7/1s are 100 points in Grey Wolf, also as they aren't armoured keep them well away from enemy teams,even rifle fire will shred them.

Panzerwerfers aren't a bad choice but you don't really need 4 of them with extra crew. If you drop them down to 3 you will have enough points to upgrade your AA to Wirbelwinds while still having a doublewide template.

Oh yeah must have had a brainfart when putting the roster upit doesn't affect the points total however.

I'll look into those Wirblewinds.

Thanks for your.help and suggestions