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OK. This just occurred to me. Can someone let me know if I am out to lunch on this as I do not have the codex in front of me.

I give the Dimensional Key to a daemon prince at I8.

He goes into assault and kills a marine or two. This activates the key. This now makes all enemy units within 12" treat terrain as both difficult and dangerous. The marines at I4 start their pile in. Since they are now moving through dangerous terrain, each marine is now taking a dangerous terrain test to simply pile in (assuming they are not in base to base)?

Or, does this not take effect until the next turn?

Scratch my previous....

it would be immediate, if you choose to unlock the key, and so that at the start any phase enemy models would test for Dangerous.

So it wont kick in until the next start of any phase.

40k-noob wrote:
Scratch my previous....

it would be immediate, if you choose to unlock the key, and so that at the start any phase enemy models would test for Dangerous.

So it wont kick in until the next start of any phase.

I thought it might be too good to be true.

So daemon kills something in my assault phase, it would be effective starting at the beginning of my opponent's turn?

I don't know, the way it's worded I'm inclined to think it is immediate. From the CSM codex:

"When the bearer kills an enemy model in the Fight subphase, he may immediately unlock the Key's power. From this point on, all enemy models that start any phase within 12" of the Key's bearer treat all terrain as both difficult and dangerous during that phase."

It seems to me that the Key's power triggers as soon as somebody is killed by it's bearer, and that anyone who was within 12" of the wielder at the beginning of that particular phase treat all terrain as difficult and dangerous. That is to say if you were more than 12" inches away at the beginning, moved into the bubble somehow (pile in maybe) and then later moved again (consolidate move) you wouldn't have to test. It's important to note also that the way the key is worded, it's difficult and dangerous terrain effect only lasts a single phase, so if it doesn't go off on the initiative step of it's bearer and immediately impact the current assault phase, then it has no effect at all.

 alienvalentine wrote:
I don't know, the way it's worded I'm inclined to think it is immediate. From the CSM codex:

"When the bearer kills an enemy model in the Fight subphase, he may immediately unlock the Key's power. From this point on, all enemy models that start any phase within 12" of the Key's bearer treat all terrain as both difficult and dangerous during that phase."

It seems to me that the Key's power triggers as soon as somebody is killed by it's bearer, and that anyone who was within 12" of the wielder at the beginning of that particular phase treat all terrain as difficult and dangerous. That is to say if you were more than 12" inches away at the beginning, moved into the bubble somehow (pile in maybe) and then later moved again (consolidate move) you wouldn't have to test. It's important to note also that the way the key is worded, it's difficult and dangerous terrain effect only lasts a single phase, so if it doesn't go off on the initiative step of it's bearer and immediately impact the current assault phase, then it has no effect at all.

it is immediate, if he wants to "unlock" the Key, and that is the only part that is immediate. Note the rest of the rule, From this point on, all enemy models that start any phase within 12" The testing part doesn't kick in until the start of the next phase.

That and pile-in movement is not the same as a charge move - and a charge move is where you're reduced to I1.

rigeld2 wrote:
That and pile-in movement is not the same as a charge move - and a charge move is where you're reduced to I1.

Not worried about the I1. More concerned about do they now need to take dangerous terrain tests simply to pile in?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alienvalentine wrote:
From this point on, all enemy models that start any phase within 12" of the Key's bearer treat all terrain as both difficult and dangerous during that phase."

And, I am starting to think it would be immediate.

It does not say that at the beginning of each phase, check to see which models are within 12" of the key bearer. They are now considered in.....

It says, from now on, anything that began a phase within 12" treats terrain as both difficult and dangerous. This seems like it would be retroactive.

40k-noob wrote:

 alienvalentine wrote:
I don't know, the way it's worded I'm inclined to think it is immediate. From the CSM codex:

"When the bearer kills an enemy model in the Fight subphase, he may immediately unlock the Key's power. From this point on, all enemy models that start any phase within 12" of the Key's bearer treat all terrain as both difficult and dangerous during that phase."

It seems to me that the Key's power triggers as soon as somebody is killed by it's bearer, and that anyone who was within 12" of the wielder at the beginning of that particular phase treat all terrain as difficult and dangerous. That is to say if you were more than 12" inches away at the beginning, moved into the bubble somehow (pile in maybe) and then later moved again (consolidate move) you wouldn't have to test. It's important to note also that the way the key is worded, it's difficult and dangerous terrain effect only lasts a single phase, so if it doesn't go off on the initiative step of it's bearer and immediately impact the current assault phase, then it has no effect at all.

it is immediate, if he wants to "unlock" the Key, and that is the only part that is immediate. Note the rest of the rule, From this point on, all enemy models that start any phase within 12" The testing part doesn't kick in until the start of the next phase.

I think you're reading this wrong. "From this point on" is when it starts, "... that start any phase within ... " is a test condition for each unit. I'm of the opinion that it starts immediately.

Yep, I missed that "any" part didn't I. This is what I get for posting before my first cup of coffee...

I'd tend to think it isn't retroactive. The rule says "start any phase" not "started any phase".

I'm not 100% sure about that though.

I don't have the rulebook to check, but...don't pile in moves ignore terrain anyway?

 Super Ready wrote:
I don't have the rulebook to check, but...don't pile in moves ignore terrain anyway?

Not slowed by difficult terrain but can trigger dangerous tests.
Edit: page 23.

I agree with rigeld2 in that it isn't retroactive due toe the distinction between "start any phase" and "started any phase". If it had said started then it would apply but since it just says start then from that point in time on it can cause the tests but since the assault phase has already started it doesn't apply until your opponents turn.

"When the bearer kills an enemy model in the Fight subphase, he may immediately unlock the Key's power. From this point on, all enemy models that start any phase within 12" of the Key's bearer treat all terrain as both difficult and dangerous during that phase."

Follow up question that came up this weekend:

Does this power make a 12" bubble of dangerous / difficult terrain around it OR does it only change terrain that is already on the board (i.e. ruins, area terrain, etc.)? I was under the impression that it just made everything around the key bearer dangerous. My opponent said it would only impact terrain pieces on the board. I conceded that he was right and, until FAQ'd, feel this power is pretty useless.

All terrain includes Open terrain, which is typically the entire area that other terrain sets on.