How long do dragons/dragon riders last?

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**Dezstiny**

Pretty much the question above is the question I'm asking. I want to play a dragon because what is fantasy without a dragon? =) so Given the rider has like a 4+3++, 2++ against any warmachine and the dragon has a 4+, 6+ against any warmachine, Do I stand a good chance of making it into combat the next turn? thanks =)

**jonolikespie**

Against dwarves and empire, NOPE.
Against anyone else you should make it into combat but you need to be sure you want to, a crapload of return attacks and a few 6s has killed more dragons than cannons. The trick is to charge your unit then charge your dragon and put it on the corner of the fight.

**Crazy_Carnifex**

I'd like to add Ogres to the list of factions dragons are dead meat against (Ironblaster fun).

**happygolucky**

Yeah dragons are awesome (Zombie dragons are immense

) but the problem with them (and any monster now) is as soon as you enemy puts down a cannon, you may as well take off your dragon, sad but very true...

... unless you have a house rule where cannons are multiple wounds D3 rather than D6...

**welshhoppo**

Which will never happen if the enemy is fielding a dragon.

**Cirronimbus**

If you want to bring a dragon you'll need war machine hunters. My Zombie dragon does ok against my friends Empire army for a few reasons. One is placing it behind units and forcing him to have to aim in front of the units and roll high on his scatter+bounce. Another is target saturation... those Corpse Carts and Mortis Engine sure do look like tasty targets for a cannon-ball (but they have Regen).

He usually brings 2 cannons. He gets one turn to fire both cannons, then my war machine hunters usually get them both, and I just have to worry about the steam tank. The odds of him dropping the Dragon or Mortis Engine with two cannons on turn one are actually a lot lower than people think (I know this because he's only done it once). About half the time he manages to kill it (or do so many wounds it dies easily in combat) and the other half his cannons blow up, fail to wound, or get eaten by my Vargheists and Hexwraiths and do no damage to it.

My advice... bring the dragon and warmachine hunters, expect to lose him to some cannons at first until you get the hang of using it against a cannon army. Keep in mind the above is not a cannon-proof 100% effective strategy, but it seems to give me a bit of an edge and I use it.

**jonolikespie**

Another little trick to keep it safe, he can't target somewhere that might hit his own guys, if you park your dragon right in front of an enemy unit you don't fear getting charged by (facing the wrong war, ranged units, etc) he will be forced to drop the ball on you rather than in front and the odds of it sailing over the top go way up.

**Ironbiterknight**

Everytime ive plaged against Dragons (back when i had OG) they did decent until i brought spear chukkas or the bombers against them. It depends, but alot of times you're going to have problems against dwarves ><

**Orlanth**

jonolikespie wrote:
Another little trick to keep it safe, he can't target somewhere that might hit his own guys, if you park your dragon right in front of an enemy unit you don't fear getting charged by (facing the wrong war, ranged units, etc) he will be forced to drop the ball on you rather than in front and the odds of it sailing over the top go way up.

The TLOS brainfart rule prevents this. Very few terrain features will adequately screen a dragon.

**-Loki-**

Orlanth wrote:
jonolikespie wrote:
Another little trick to keep it safe, he can't target somewhere that might hit his own guys, if you park your dragon right in front of an enemy unit you don't fear getting charged by (facing the wrong war, ranged units, etc) he will be forced to drop the ball on you rather than in front and the odds of it sailing over the top go way up.

The TLOS brainfart rule prevents this. Very few terrain features will adequately screen a dragon.

Depends on your terrain. It certainly feels that most of the Fantasy official terrain peices were specifically designed to hide large monsters.

**jonolikespie**

Orlanth wrote:
jonolikespie wrote:
Another little trick to keep it safe, he can't target somewhere that might hit his own guys, if you park your dragon right in front of an enemy unit you don't fear getting charged by (facing the wrong way, ranged units, etc) he will be forced to drop the ball on you rather than in front and the odds of it sailing over the top go way up.

The TLOS brainfart rule prevents this. Very few terrain features will adequately screen a dragon.

Yes but a barricade will stop the ball from bouncing into your dragon and the other guy can't declare that he is dropping the ball on his own men, therefore he has to place the ball on your base and hope he rolls a 2 or 4 for how far from the mark it lands.

**Mr Mugguffins**

Cannons will ruin you're day. True line of sight means that if they can see you, they can shoot at you. Infantry can screen them slightly, but it has to be a very deep unit, and it doesn't work if the enemy do something fiendish like deploy one cannon in each corner of their deployment and flank shoot you to buggery.

Cannons are not the only threat unfortunately.

Stone throwers will have an easier time hitting the beast with the high str multiple wounds hit due to your ill tempered giant amphibian's large base. Massed bolt throwers and certain magic spells can be a nuisance too.

Also, steadfast will mean that you get tar pitted by stubborn (often Inspiring presence buffed) infantry, 50 of which willi often be cheaper than your dragon (100 if it's something like goblins). If they have a genrall and a bsb nearby then you will be lucky to kill them all before enemy flank charges and weight of dice take their toll.

With that said, Monsters can be excellent fun. Look at it's this way, they very rarely go down easy and killing them withou warmachines often takes the attention of more points than your beasty is worth, which means the rest of your army is free too either frollik gayely about the field or support his Lordship Von firebreathinglizardOHMYGODITSGOTMYFACE!!!!1111oneoneeleven.

EDIT:FOR THE GLORY OF SPELLING CORRECTIONS.

**DukeRustfield**

As people correctly pointed out above, your super ferocious dragon will spend much of his time hiding behind fences and trees and buildings and such. Much like a shy crack dealer. Your armor save is worthless against war machines. Much like a crack dealer's fine leather jacket against the frenzied fingernails of a strung-out junkie. And if you do get in combat the tremendous cost of the unit prevents you from ever making your points back against cheap units; yet if the enemy is too elite (str5+, poison) they will be able to kill you for cost. Much like a crack dealer can't work in rich neighborhoods or face cops or too poor neighborhoods and get robbed.

It's a tough life for monsters and crack dealers.