Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all.

So, I'm making an army list. It's generally a fun list, but I still wouldn't like to guarantee losses pretty much

so, Tactical squads, for my army, are pretty much just scoring unit's. I'm running blood angel tactical squads (May have seen my previous post about cost of assault marines, and I just decided to make them shooty, but at least survivable in combat) and I give them a cheap sanguinary priest, with a hand flamer, and a power sword. I run 3 squads, with flamers, and heavy bolters. The idea is, the priest makes them more survivable, and makes them at least slightly effective in assault. It also means that I can afford to give my sergeant nothing but meltabombs, as he can soak up any challenges so I don't lose the priest, and the priest can then power weapon main squads. I also have 2 flamers a squad(priest hand flamer, and special weapon), which means that even if they don't get the charge, which is likely the case as a shooty squad, they can at least do some pretty good overwatch.

But, my question is, are tactical's totally pointless, without some form of transport? Or can I get away with not stuffing them in rhino's?

It might work depending on the rest of your list, but as a rule of thumb, no...

On foot is fine. I'd want to give them missile launchers or lascannons rather than the heavy bolter. They give you durable scoring units a bit cheaper than assault marines, albeit with less mobility, and a heavy weapon for a little bit of long-ranged antitank. Another nice use for the heavy weapon is anti-flyer, if you get a Skyfire mysterious objective. Only Troops can make use of them, so tacticals are in a better position to help there, rather than AMs.

Tacticals are also better against daemons, which are more and more prevalent in competitive circles right now, because they're so darn good in the less-mechanized environment of 6th ed. You're often better off using bolters on them rather than assaulting.

Giving squads a priest loses their advantage of being cheaper than assault marines. If you want to do that, you're better off having a priest or two in actual assault-oriented squads (which will make better use of the furious charge), and moving the assault squads so that they're in range to benefit the tacticals at the same time, at least for part of the game.

Assault marines to run across the board, don't need transports.

for backfield scoring, tac marines are good, yeah I would grab a ML and special weapon, you can combat squad them and have them come in from reserve.

troops in Rhino usually offer attractive target for ennemi heavy support. They will live longer on foot, and would able to conquer / contest objectives during the game

Thanks for the responces all, but I better add. I allready have the models. So I'm really not looking to replace them, so "Buy assault marines" isn't something I will consider unless naked tacticals really are god awful

For blood angels wouldn't you be better off combat squadding them in a razorback? I know its more points, but its also a lot more firepower. And you let the heavy weapon sit in cover somewhere while the assault weapon and sergeant can go in the razorback and try to take forward objectives?

They are certainly not god aweful.

I took 5 tac squads to a tourney to make myself learn how to use them, in my batreps if interested.

They were good then, better now.

Running Tactical Marines without a ride is unnecessarily hampering them.

Since, 5/6 of the games is objectives, you want to beable to move quickly. Since Combat Squads are the way to go when playing Objective games, 5 men running up the board for objectives is asking for them to absorb enemy fire. Rhinos make them immune to Small Arms. Rhinos can move 18" in one turn.

Rhinos have Search Lights to spot for your long ranged weapons, to remove Night Fighting from the equation.

You can use Rhinos to block movement, line of sight, and as cover for other tanks.

Sure, they cost 50pts as a Blood Angel, but that means you get to move 24" in one turn!

And if the opponent doesn't swiss cheese them, you get to move 48". Or more!

Recently I've found that transports for Tactical Squads are not strictly necessary. In 6th edition, almost every turn you're in a transport, you're losing bolter shots. Further, shaken/stunned results on the transport went from "whatever" to extremely damaging. To make matters worse, transports easily concede First Blood and they are Kill Point fodder.

However, if you want to run Tactical Squads without Transports, you need to be very good in terms of your deployment (so that you don't get outmaneuvered) and at keeping your guys alive (so you don't just get your Troops killed. Personally, I've found that Tactical squads without transports can be quite effective in 6th edition, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to a new player.

Yes, in Kill Point games you need to hide your Rhinos. Behind ruins, terrain, or whatever, they need to be back somewhere they aren't going to cause trouble.

Since you can't reserve them without the tactical squad anymore, you can't keep them hidden.

I think the pros they have outweigh the cons. Searchlights are pretty invaluable when it comes to that first turn of Night Fighting, and I can't tell you how many times I've smashed people who've forgotten all about them.

Light them up with Searchlights, then drop a Demolisher Cannon on a tank they left out since they figured they'd get a cover save.

Fire the stormbolters ineffectually at the opponent, then light them up. You don't even need to hit.

Well, the army I'm running, is very, very shooty. I run 3 rifleman dread's and a vindicator, behind a defence line with quadgun. The basic idea is, that if I place my objectives in front of the aegis as much as possible, I force enemies to come up right in front of a whole wall of hurt. Due to this, my army turtles up a lot,
and as long as I have some objectives on my side, It won't be too hard to keep stuff alive untill I need to take them. And most enemies don't hold up well against all that shooting if they come to try and take my objectives off me. So, I like the idea of having all my shooting freed up, so that the tacticals can try and shoot everything hiding from the sight of my main dread/vindicator/quad gun gunline. That's the thinking behind it anyhow

I have said this a few times here, either do lots of armour or none

If all you have is AV11 you have an illusion of mobility, because its dead by turn 2.

If however you have some AV13, for example a vindicator or 2, your light armour has a better chance of making turn 3 or 4 and thus doing whatever you were hoping it would do