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So... Three children of Eastern European descent have been removed from their foster family due to their parent's supporting the United Kingdom Independence Party.
A speaker for the local council said that due to the party opposing multiculturalism in the UK, it wasn't in the best interests for the children to remain with the family. The parents however advocated the children speaking their own language and learning about their history.

Thoughts on the matter Dakka? Is there something to be gleaned from this other than it just being politically charged rabble rousing?

I think the parents should have been allowed to keep the children.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Source

So... Three children of Eastern European descent have been removed from their foster family due to their parent's supporting the United Kingdom Independence Party.
A speaker for the local council said that due to the party opposing multiculturalism in the UK, it wasn't in the best interests for the children to remain with the family. The parents however advocated the children speaking their own language and learning about their history.

Thoughts on the matter Dakka? Is there something to be gleaned from this other than it just being politically charged rabble rousing?

Yeah, I don't think being raised in an anti-multiculturalism environment is healthy for a child's mind, In Canada it is common courtesy to be open and kind to other cultures (although you don't have to agree with everything they do either, like female genital mutilation which is practiced by

certain African societies I feel that is absolutely appalling).

The UKIP are not particularly nice people but this is absurd.
Especially since they were advocating that the children learn more about their heritage...

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Source

So... Three children of Eastern European descent have been removed from their foster family due to their parent's supporting the United Kingdom Independence Party.
A speaker for the local council said that due to the party opposing multiculturalism in the UK, it wasn't in the best interests for the children to remain with the family. The parents however advocated the children speaking their own language and learning about their history.

Thoughts on the matter Dakka? Is there something to be gleaned from this other than it just being politically charged rabble rousing?

Yeah, I don't think being raised in an anti-multiculturalism environment is healthy for a child's mind

Nor do I, but they were encouraging the children to learn about their own history and learn their own languages.

If simple political affiliation now decides whether or not someone is alowed to adopt, then how can they let Conservative families adopt, since the cuts to the Police forces are potentially going to endanger the lives of their children later on. How can they let Labourites adopt based on how, in areas with labour councils, services for old people are declining rapidly in quality; they're going to be raising their children in a world that'll make them suffer later on. How can they let Liberals adopt when they're Liberals?

Really, unless the family has shown this anti-multiculturalism, and shown that they accept all these negative morals, can anyone justify taking kids away and putting them through yet more trauma? Are the kids being fed? Yes. Are they happy? Yes. Do they go to school? Yes. Is the household stable? Yes. Are they suffering in any way, shape or form? No. What is the problem?

The problem is that UKIP are a single issue party, that issue is immigration. It takes a certain type of mind to think immigration is more important than the economy, education, health, defence, crime and foreign policy combined, and in recent years UKIP has been taking votes from the BNP.

In this instance I think the council has been a bit heavy handed and should have investigated properly, but I can see their point in that socialising children in a family unit which might very well loathe the culture and heritage of the children would be bad for them.

As a bit of background the children were only there on a temporary basis, and a judge had previously chastised the council for not taking into account the children's cultural needs.

 Cheesecat wrote:

Yeah, I don't think being raised in an anti-multiculturalism environment is healthy for a child's mind

That's a worrying statement. It's pretty rich to tell people that they're no longer allowed a nation state.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Really, unless the family has shown this anti-multiculturalism

I agree with the majority of your post, but would just like to raise the point about anti-multiculturalism, it is UKIP's raison d'etre, they are against multiculturalism and promote uniculturalism, i.e. if you are in Britain you WILL ascribe to British culture. This however, sits against the actual actions of the parents, hence they should have been investigated rather than just had the children taken away.

 Testify wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

Yeah, I don't think being raised in an anti-multiculturalism environment is healthy for a child's mind

That's a worrying statement. It's pretty rich to tell people that they're no longer allowed a nation state.

I don't understand why people would think multiculturalism would be bad for national identity.

 purplefood wrote:
The UKIP are not particularly nice people but this is absurd.
Especially since they were advocating tnhat the children learn more about their heritage...

It's odd, why would they foster eastern descent kids if they think they shouldn't be allowed in?

They either were going to be horrible foster parents and fill their heads with patriot nonsense, or more likely they losely hold UKIP beliefs and think they're a breath of fresh air from the usual suspects.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Source

So... Three children of Eastern European descent have been removed from their foster family due to their parent's supporting the United Kingdom Independence Party.
A speaker for the local council said that due to the party opposing multiculturalism in the UK, it wasn't in the best interests for the children to remain with the family. The parents however advocated the children speaking their own language and learning about their history.

Thoughts on the matter Dakka? Is there something to be gleaned from this other than it just being politically charged rabble rousing?

Yeah, I don't think being raised in an anti-multiculturalism environment is healthy for a child's mind

Nor do I, but they were encouraging the children to learn about their own history and learn their own languages.

If simple political affiliation now decides whether or not someone is alowed to adopt, then how can they let Conservative families adopt, since the cuts to the Police forces are potentially going to endanger the lives of their children later on. How can they let Labourites adopt based on how, in areas with labour councils, services for old people are declining rapidly in quality; they're going to be raising their children in a world that'll make them suffer later on. How can they let Liberals adopt when they're Liberals?

Really, unless the family has shown this anti-multiculturalism, and shown that they accept all these negative morals, can anyone justify taking kids away and putting them through yet more trauma? Are the kids being fed? Yes. Are they happy? Yes. Do they go to school? Yes. Is the household stable? Yes. Are they suffering in any way, shape or form? No. What is the problem?

This is a good point, I think I agree with this more.

I do not understand where the natural parents are, or why the children could not be fostered in their own country and culture, or how native British parents would be able to foster foreign children in the foreign culture whatever their political affiliation.

You cannot naturally learn your native language without being in the presence of native speakers.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I do not understand where the natural parents are, or why the children could not be fostered in their own country and culture, or how native British parents would be able to foster foreign children in the foreign culture whatever their political affiliation.

You cannot naturally learn your native language without being in the presence of native speakers.

Parents immigrate here are deemed unfit and the kids get put into our system.

On the last part I would agree, but you could take them on holiday to immerse them in the culture.

On another note the adoption system here is probably better than there native countries.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

Yeah, I don't think being raised in an anti-multiculturalism environment is healthy for a child's mind

That's a worrying statement. It's pretty rich to tell people that they're no longer allowed a nation state.

I don't understand why people would think multiculturalism would be bad for national identity.

Because if a group of people from another culture form an enclave in a city, that city is no longer a part of its parent country's culture.

Something about the story doesn't add up, it just doesn't seem enough to take foster kids away, they say that they support UKIP but apparently more than respect the kids backgrounds when looking after them.

What will an investigation into the motives of the local authority turn up? If the decision to remove them from fostering does just hinge solely on them supporting UKIP thats going to be difficult to defend.

UKIP is not the BNP. You can be anit-immigration without being a screaming facist, however to the dogmatic admitting that is a no no.

They aren't bend over backwards PC, so that means they must be evil.

This isn't too different than the idiots who lost their kids that they named after Hitler and Himmler. They made a name for themselves when a local bakery refused to make a cake for their kid Adolf Hitler.

I'm not a fan of government intrusion, but foster kids are technically wards of the state. If you have dangerous tendencies, they should be able to take the kids back.

 Testify wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

Yeah, I don't think being raised in an anti-multiculturalism environment is healthy for a child's mind

That's a worrying statement. It's pretty rich to tell people that they're no longer allowed a nation state.

I don't understand why people would think multiculturalism would be bad for national identity.

Because if a group of people from another culture form an enclave in a city, that city is no longer a part of its parent country's culture.

I disagree, for example Montreal has a large Anglophone population (about 30%) but a lot of people would still say that it's still part of Quebec's culture or Richmond, BC 45% of the population is Chinese but I still consider it a Canadian city.

 Orlanth wrote:
UKIP is not the BNP. You can be anit-immigration without being a screaming facist, however to the dogmatic admitting that is a no no.

They aren't bend over backwards PC, so that means they must be evil.

Noone has suggested they are fascist, just racist, and when, regardless of the question asked, Farage starts spouting some drivel about immigration you can see where people get the idea that he might be a bit of a xenophobe.

purplefood wrote:The UKIP are not particularly nice people but this is absurd.
Especially since they were advocating that the children learn more about their heritage...

Learn from who? Here is an admittedly hyperbolic example: would you trust a neo-nazi to educate Jewish kids about their heritage?

Cheesecat wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

Yeah, I don't think being raised in an anti-multiculturalism environment is healthy for a child's mind

That's a worrying statement. It's pretty rich to tell people that they're no longer allowed a nation state.

I don't understand why people would think multiculturalism would be bad for national identity.

Fear of the 'other'.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

Yeah, I don't think being raised in an anti-multiculturalism environment is healthy for a child's mind

That's a worrying statement. It's pretty rich to tell people that they're no longer allowed a nation state.

I don't understand why people would think multiculturalism would be bad for national identity.

Because if a group of people from another culture form an enclave in a city, that city is no longer a part of its parent country's culture.

I disagree, for example Montreal has a large Anglophone population (about 30%) but a lot of people would still say that it's still part of Quebec's culture or Richmond, BC 45% of the population is Chinese but I still consider it a Canadian city.

11.3% of Montreal is Anglo, not 30%. It's funny how the RoC seems to like inflating their presence in Montreal. There's more Allophone in Montreal than Anglo.

And a lot of people would say that there's enough noted differences between Anglo's and Franco's values to say that we're two different cultures. You know, the two loneliness often mentionned... Anyhow, it's fair to assume that it's a sticky issue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 azazel the cat wrote:
Fear of the 'other'.

That's beyond reductive. If you live in a culture that has a set of value that has driven other's to seek to come to that culture, it's pretty normal to wish that said immigrants do not also export the set of values that have made them wish they didn't live in their original culture either.

 Orlanth wrote:
UKIP is not the BNP.

They are the elderly middle english equivilent, basically the kind of person who buys the Daily Express is their natural supporter. I find it very worrying that they are described as a "mainstream political party" to tell you the truth. At least it will dilute the tory vote.

Something doesn't seem right here. Either there is more going on that isn't in the BBC article or someone was really incompetent.

Cheesecat wrote:
I disagree, for example Montreal has a large Anglophone population (about 30%) but a lot of people would still say that it's still part of Quebec's culture or Richmond, BC 45% of the population is Chinese but I still consider it a Canadian city.

You can speak for your own country I'm sure. Suffice that to say I find it weird going to work, sitting in the canteen and hearing no English whatsoever. It can be isolating, even though people are friendly enough many don't even have the basic English skills to communicate. And there are entire communities like this.

Is it seriously "dangerous" to want to live in a country full of people who speak the same language of me, and with the same social etiquettes? That is more or less the point of nation states.

Cheesecat wrote:
Fear of the 'other'.

Which is an entirely natural part of our nature. You could argue that you can't have a sense of "us" without a sense of "them".

 Testify wrote:
You could argue that you can't have a sense of "us" without a sense of "them".

Which is uniformly dangerous. 'Us and them' only works in times of conflict, unfortunately it is the single biggest cause of conflict.

Palindrome wrote:

 Testify wrote:
You could argue that you can't have a sense of "us" without a sense of "them".

Which is uniformly dangerous. 'Us and them' only works in times of conflict, unfortunately it is the single biggest cause of conflict.

Certainly not. If you identify yourself to certain values, then by necessity you take position against the values that are antagonistic to them. You can't be a feminist without being anti-sexist, for exemple. Defining an 'us' delimits an 'other'.

Of course, you can still find community in shared caracteristics, like human integrity, hopes for a happy life, etc, etc...

 Testify wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

Yeah, I don't think being raised in an anti-multiculturalism environment is healthy for a child's mind

That's a worrying statement. It's pretty rich to tell people that they're no longer allowed a nation state.

I don't understand why people would think multiculturalism would be bad for national identity.

Because if a group of people from another culture form an enclave in a city, that city is no longer a part of its parent country's culture.

Which has happened in every city ever since time immemorial. Almost every major city on the east coast has certain parts that are predominately Irish, or predominately Italian, Puerto Rican, etc. Ever heard of China Town? It's nothing new, nor has it ever threatened our country's identity.

Kovnik Obama wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
Fear of the 'other'.

That's beyond reductive. If you live in a culture that has a set of value that has driven other's to seek to come to that culture, it's pretty normal to wish that said immigrants do not also export the set of values that have made them wish they didn't live in their original culture either.

And that's beyond irony.

It's rarely a 'culture' that drives others to immigrate. Nobody actually decides to move to New York because they like pizza and profanity. Most moves tend to revolve around labour and economic reasons, which I would argue are not really cultural facets.

Seems queer to take away someone's children for something like that. It's not like they were putting the children in danger by having their opinions...

I fear that excessive multiculturalism will lead to a brittle society. Everything will be more or less fine as long as times of relative peace and plenty abound, but when the gak hits the fan - the aliens/asteroid/super plague are dropping ninety percent of your city, without a shared culture, a certain level of homogeny, you will lack the level of unstinting trust in your neighbors necessary to pull through as a functional whole.

 rubiksnoob wrote:
Which has happened in every city ever since time immemorial. Almost every major city on the east coast has certain parts that are predominately Irish, or predominately Italian, Puerto Rican, etc. Ever heard of China Town? It's nothing new, nor has it ever threatened our country's identity.

Emphasis mine - in the US, it actually IS our country's identity. I think we're doing OK for it.