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Thought I'd throw this out there and see what everyone has to say.

A local player announced that he was modeling his Ork Boyz on 60mm bases at 4 Boyz to a base. He wants to do this so that his green tide of over 200 Orks is easier to move across the table, and easier to transport as well.

Now, the bases section on pg. 3 of the BRB says that models should be on the base they're supplied with or one of proper size based on similar models and that all of the rules within the book are designed to fuction properly when everyone is using the correct size of base.

My contention with this is that it seems like modeling for advantage, even though I understand that it was not the player's original intent in the slightest. Other players are arguing with me telling me that the weaknesses from this outway the advantages and that this should not only be acceptable, but tourney legal as well. From where I stand, it's like having a looted wagon the size of a shoe box. Everything may have line of sight to it, but it's giving an entire army a cover save and has line of sight with it's cannon to anything on the table.

The main advantages I can see in this particular situation are that the unit doesn't lose ground when taking wounds from shooting. If I have a unit of marines gearing up to assault in the following turn and I lose the 3 closest to shooting wounds, I have to make up that distance in my assault roll. With 4 models on one base take wounds, as long as it's no more than 3, that unit is still at the same distance it was before it was wounded. Also, how does one tell which of the Boyz are in base to base with who? By allocating wounds across multiple 60mm bases, you can save your front line from breaking down in assault, or make a large gap for an i1 Nob to move up at his step. On top of that, you're also getting a greater surface area than the 4 bases alone would have for base contact. Also, when resolving wounds from overwatch, how does one decide whether the assault is successful when the next closest boy is on the same base? There are some other little benefits from this as well, but these are the biggest that leap out at me.

Now, everyone else contends that weaknesses to flamers/templates and difficuties with skirting terrain negate the benefits from this. But how does one decide which models are under a template when they're all on the same base? Is it based on the model, which normally has overlap to due their large size, or the imaginary footprint of the base?

I dunno. I don't wanna be a jerk about this, but if you had 25 W4 60mm bases headed your way at a tourney, when everything of yours was modeled properly, how would you feel about it?

Its literally not allowed. I would say so if it was a tourney.

Not allowed. Simply put.

I wouldn't play against it. If he's going to complain about playing a horde army, he should find another army or learn to move them more expeditiously.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I wouldn't play against it. If he's going to complain about playing a horde army, he should find another army or learn to move them more expeditiously.

I'm not holding it against the guy. He was just trying to be creative with saving time. It's our local TO/LGS owner who is fighting for it. I told the guy to buy or make some movement trays for causual games and then use them regular for tournies and he seemed agreeable to that.

If he uses movement trays, he'll complain about templates, flamers, and beam shots.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
If he uses movement trays, he'll complain about templates, flamers, and beam shots.

Not if he has the right kind of movement trays.

This is house rule territory, really. I don't think I'd mind playing against it as long as there were some 3/2/1 size Ork bases to use when wounds were suffered. But it's absolutely against standard rules - even though the "use the base supplied" rule is no longer in the rulebook - since you're cramming multiple models onto one base. The rules for standard Infantry (ie the basic rules, which don't include Swarms) cover single models on bases, there's no allowance to cram more in.

So for Tournaments? Absolutely not, and that TO is asking too much of the other players. FLGS play? It's up to the players themselves, and it sounds like the Ork player is considering all options in a fair manner, so... I'd say hey, why not.

What happens is I clip the edge of one of the bases with a Template/Blast Marker?
Will I wound all four Boys on the base?
I bet he'd not be happy then.

Make up movement trays.
One sheet of MDF (1/8") and some art card glued together.
Cut the MDF to the shape you want, drill some 1" holes in it, glue the card onto the base. many shape you want, as many boys per base you want.

His method is certainly not legal.

Super Ready wrote:This is house rule territory, really. I don't think I'd mind playing against it as long as there were some 3/2/1 size Ork bases to use when wounds were suffered. But it's absolutely against standard rules - even though the "use the base supplied" rule is no longer in the rulebook - since you're cramming multiple models onto one base. The rules for standard Infantry (ie the basic rules, which don't include Swarms) cover single models on bases, there's no allowance to cram more in.

So for Tournaments? Absolutely not, and that TO is asking too much of the other players. FLGS play? It's up to the players themselves, and it sounds like the Ork player is considering all options in a fair manner, so... I'd say hey, why not.

Actually, the rule is still in the book on pg. 3. And I wouldn't mind playing against movement trays in a friendly game, but I agree that a tournament should hold players to a higher standard.

marv335 wrote:What happens is I clip the edge of one of the bases with a Template/Blast Marker?
Will I wound all four Boys on the base?
I bet he'd not be happy then.

Make up movement trays.
One sheet of MDF (1/8") and some art card glued together.
Cut the MDF to the shape you want, drill some 1" holes in it, glue the card onto the base. many shape you want, as many boys per base you want.

His method is certainly not legal.

After hearing some thoughts on it, I believe he is making up some movement trays; better yet, they're gonna be Orkified

 Son 0f Dorn wrote:
Thought I'd throw this out there and see what everyone has to say.

A local player announced that he was modeling his Ork Boyz on 60mm bases at 4 Boyz to a base. He wants to do this so that his green tide of over 200 Orks is easier to move across the table, and easier to transport as well.

Now, the bases section on pg. 3 of the BRB says that models should be on the base they're supplied with or one of proper size based on similar models and that all of the rules within the book are designed to fuction properly when everyone is using the correct size of base.

It depends on how he does it. For example, if he places 4x 25mm bases (or paints 25mm circles) on the top 60mm round base, I would have absolutely no problems with it and all measurements are done to those. Basically it would just be a movement tray, and I don't see any problems using those. Ok, there are times when it would become necessary to replace those 60mm bases with separate ork boys, but thats about it. Note that all of my later points are based on the 'movement tray' type assumption, otherwise it is really far in the house rules territory.

 Son 0f Dorn wrote:
My contention with this is that it seems like modeling for advantage, even though I understand that it was not the player's original intent in the slightest. Other players are arguing with me telling me that the weaknesses from this outway the advantages and that this should not only be acceptable, but tourney legal as well.

Tournament legality depends a lot on how exactly does he do it, but yes, they're correct about other aspects. That setup will incur many disadvantages and the advantages will be pretty minor, especially when you consider that 90%+ time you would be able to gain all those advantages by just placing the models one by one.

 Son 0f Dorn wrote:
From where I stand, it's like having a looted wagon the size of a shoe box. Everything may have line of sight to it, but it's giving an entire army a cover save and has line of sight with it's cannon to anything on the table.

It depends. Movement trays are obviously different by large margin, as they don't give any pretty much real ingame advantages that you wouldn't gain by careful placement of models.

Personally, I think he'd get lot more bang for his buck by just using movement trays of some sort. They'd fix his main issues: easier to move, easier to transport without really affecting game mechanics as you could easily remove correct models from those etc.

edit: well, others have covered all these points already, so this was kinda pointless post

I think this varies on the unit, I would not tolerate this if it was done for a clear advantage and not in the spirit of fair-play. That is what you have to weigh up.

For example I would not do this with my Tyranid synapse creatures because it would make the range of their synapse power go either more or less and therefore be hard on me or unfair to my opponent.

However some models like the Defiler can have a base added as long as the size is within reason. I converted a Carnifex with huge legs and it needed a bigger base simply because the normal base was too small.

Hope my rambling helps.

Creative movement trays are all better than static 60mm bases which simply won't work and hurt too much gameplay.

Besides, you will have to transition from movement tray to models as soon as you assault.

I have yet to see a good movement tray solution for 40k which works with terrain and other aspects. if someone came up with one, I would be glad to green tide again.

As a side note has anyone ever tried hooking their bases to thick gauge metal wire for moving hordes? I have been wanting to try this but before putting the hook up system in place wanted to see if anyone has experience.

Also it seems like it would be legal as it can be removed and can be bent to accommodate CC etc. Are there any rules concerns?

It's fully against the rules. Now if you don't mind it let him but remember if a template hit 1 base it would hit 4 guys at once. His ease of movement will hurt him in the end.

seem to me the easiest way to get his models moved faster and still be legal is either use the standard base and glue them together in sets of four
or
glue some magnets on the bases and create some custom trays. for example take two Popsicle sticks and glue them in an X with magnets at each end then he could easily move 4 at a time, be legal and still have the models separate
or another example is to glue 3-4 magnets on the 60mm base and then place his magnetized models on that base for movement purposes and just make it clear that their actual base is what counts.