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Lords~
Franz w/ barded warhorse, Ghal Maraz
General w/ FPA, barded warhorse, Ogre blade, Obsidian Lodestone

Heroes~
Captain w/ BSB, barded warhorse, razor standard
Wizard w/ Level 2 lore of fire, talisman of preservation
Wizard w/ Level 2 lore of metal, dispel scroll, seed of rebirth

Core~
Handgunners (x10) w/ marksman hochland
Handgunners (x10) w/ marksman repeater rifle
Crossbowmen (x10) w/ marksman
Crossbowmen (x10) w/ marksman
Knights (x9) w/ preceptor, musician (BSB, general here), great weapons
Inner Circle (x10) w/ full command, steel standard (Franz here)

Special~
Demigryph (x4) w/ halberds, preceptor, standard
Cannon
Cannon

Total: 2497

Recently acquired some of these models...Thoughts?

Its certainly different. I dont think you need the general in there. empire generals are best taken as just hold the line LD buffers. Considering Karl Franz has the 18" LD bubble you should be ok.

I would definately consider running a warrior priest in one of those units of knights, crown of command is also your friend if you are not taking reiksguard.

There also isnt very much gunline about it. I would maybe consider getting a helblaster. They are all sorts of wrong.

The only issue I see is that your knights will be heading out to the enemy but you will have your shooting in the backline, thats 2 tactics which dont really blend well considering knights can usually get turn 2 charges and the enemy wont come to you. It makes the shooty part of the army pretty much redundant.

Deathbysoup

The General is for challenge pick-me-ups and to be used as a beatstick in an otherwise pretty low damaging unit. The idea is to deploy the gunline with each knight unit set up as flank chargers for when the enemy is forced to come at me. A similar list that I ran faired pretty well..Its really not that *different* of a list when seen set up on a table.

A dwarf (or even my Chaos Dwarf) army would love to fight this army. They use similar tactics but are better at it than this line up. There could also be issues with horde (skaven/orc + Gobbos), also have warmachines but can take casualties better than your list.

Karl Franz is a huge point sink, a cheaper hero and more warmachines is a possible option?

Denilsta wrote:
A dwarf (or even my Chaos Dwarf) army would love to fight this army. They use similar tactics but are better at it than this line up. There could also be issues with horde (skaven/orc + Gobbos), also have warmachines but can take casualties better than your list.

Karl Franz is a huge point sink, a cheaper hero and more warmachines is a possible option?

Trust me, Franz almost always makes his points back or close to...Plus the LD 10 bubble and magic resistance is nice. My knights are usually successful at horde stopping with the nice save..Few hordes have high strength. A similar list got stomped on by Chaos Dwarves (only local dwarf player)...I learned my lesson.

I like it looks legit, I would vote to drop the general and spend the points on well yeh a hellblaster

An unusual concept. Handgunners? Okay. Reading the title, I thought you'd bring max Outriders and Pistoliers - half the gunline is not mounted!

General - give him a gun (or at least a pistol)!

Captain - give him a gun! Drop the Razor Banner, get a ward.

Knights - get the Flaming Banner in there, or give it to the BSB, so he can join a missile unit. Perhaps join the HG or the Crossbows into one for 20 flaming shots.

Demigryphs - the standard is iffy. Not outright wrong but IF they run, he autodies. Just something to consider.

As others have said, a Hellblaster would fit, as would Outriders, at least thematically. Whether you have enough combat oomph is another matter entirely. The reasons why so few go this route with Empire do have their merit after all.

I suppose the title was misleading...Should be...Gunline with heavily armored support.
General - I'll pass on the pistol, not looking for total fluff.
Captain - Razor standard allows the GW knights to kill all but the warded units with relative ease..
Knights - The flaming banner really only works exponentially against regen heavy armies..Which I rarely face
Demigryph - The idea is that the banner adds even +1 combat res so they don't run...I mean 12 str 5 ap attacks coupled with the 5 str 5 halberd hits?

Are you worried about having a low number of CC units? Longbows are devastating against gunners because they can't move and shoot, and are out-ranged. and Longbows vs Knights is deadly too, I've learned that the hard way (also see Agincourt). On the other hand that gunline will demolish anything within 24". I'd like to see it against High Elves. I hope it works out.

Just suggestions, riverhawks, I totally see where you are coming from.

cox.dan, do you mean Elven Longbows? Don't they have the same range as crossbows and why would they worry Knights?

cox.dan2 wrote:Are you worried about having a low number of CC units? Longbows are devastating against gunners because they can't move and shoot, and are out-ranged. and Longbows vs Knights is deadly too, I've learned that the hard way (also see Agincourt). On the other hand that gunline will demolish anything within 24". I'd like to see it against High Elves. I hope it works out.

Mike der Ritter wrote:Just suggestions, riverhawks, I totally see where you are coming from.

cox.dan, do you mean Elven Longbows? Don't they have the same range as crossbows and why would they worry Knights?

I really am not worried about it, as the ones I have are very, very tough.
Mike, I really do like your suggestions I did sit there and think them over, just trying to weigh the pro's and con's of each decision.

I thought crossbows were 24" and Elven Longbows were 30"(at least that's what my HE friend told me), but I don't use either so I'm not quite sure.

A small unit of knights can get pummeled by lots of shots even with amazing armour save, its happened to me plenty of times. Knights vs Longbows=Longbows every time

Not saying that it is a bad list though, just trying to help.

 cox.dan2 wrote:
I thought crossbows were 24" and Elven Longbows were 30"(at least that's what my HE friend told me), but I don't use either so I'm not quite sure.

A small unit of knights can get pummeled by lots of shots even with amazing armour save, its happened to me plenty of times. Knights vs Longbows=Longbows every time

Not saying that it is a bad list though, just trying to help.

Both are 30"
The thing though is that with knights a ranged player gets one turn of shooting and I guarantee they won't kill many if any in a single shooting phase.

Does anyone think that the maxed out outriders and pistoliers, with knights, warrior priests tio make the knights killy, BSB and general, and a couple warmachiness would actually work. (sorry for being so vague)

No talk of a pair of mounted warrior priests for those units, worth it for the hatred alone prays are an added bonus.

You don't have enough wounds on the table in my opinion. 1+ is good but not that good or resilient. You also have no magic defense. I love the lore of metal, just bc I like the spells, but against this army, it rocks.

Demigryphs are prob better without the halberd. You're only I 3 and WS 4. The armor save is better.

buckero0 wrote:
You don't have enough wounds on the table in my opinion. 1+ is good but not that good or resilient. You also have no magic defense. I love the lore of metal, just bc I like the spells, but against this army, it rocks.

Demigryphs are prob better without the halberd. You're only I 3 and WS 4. The armor save is better.

1+ isn't good or resilient? Excuse me while I pick my jaw off of the floor. Very rarely does that unit get killed. Magic defense = the level 2's and a dispel scroll. You don't NEED a level 4 for defense. I could care less about the demigryph, the whole point of the unit is to get in str 5 hits. 2+ armor has been sufficient in the past, they usually surpass their points.