Chaos Space Marines/Chaos Daemons vs. Sisters of Battle/Imperial Guard (11.15.12) [1850]

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**L'Etat C'Est Moi**

To prepare for a local GT in March and Adepticon in April twenty of us from the Frozen North Gaming Club are participating in a league to both build community as well as test lists out against a variety of opponents. We are following the Bay Area Open missions and I am using the new Chaos Space Marine Codex with allied Daemons of Chaos. Note that because it is a playtest league there is no painting requirement and proxies are allowed on the condition that you are actually working toward purchasing or converting the model. I have included what model is being used as a [proxy] in brackets.

My List:

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It was my first time ever playing Michael, who brought Sisters of Battle with IG Allies.

His list:

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Pre-Game:

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Sisters 1:

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Chaos 1:

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Sisters 2:

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Chaos 2:

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Sisters 3:

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Chaos 3:

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Sisters 4:

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Chaos 4:

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Sisters 5:

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Chaos 5:

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Results:

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**Briancj**

Beautiful battle report, but I'd like to make two suggestions, take them as you will.

1) If you're prepping for Adepticon, use the Adepticon scenarios from 2012. It'll help, a LOT.

2) Search on the web, and look at the table pictures from Adepticon 2012. Your terrain is great, but it won't prepare you for AC2013. We don't know, quite yet, how much of the 'scenery setup' rules they'll be using from 6th edition 40K, but that'll be up very, very soon!

Again, excellent report and great pictures!

--B.

**L'Etat C'Est Moi**

Most of the stores in our area use adepticon style missions, so until this years primer comes wout we are sticking with BAO. Our thoughts are that BAO missions are more balanced and thus better for list testing.

That is a good idea about looking at adepticon terrain. Taking a peek online it looks fairly similar with less overall, specifically ruins. Any suggestions on how to get more on their level terrain wise?

Edit-Based on the team tournament rules that were just released it looks like adepticon, or at least that event, is moving toward a BOA format for missions.

**jy2**

Nice game. Gamewise, you should have swapped your vendetta-proxy for his razorwing-proxy. Then he wouldn't actually have to proxy his vendetta.

I kind of wonder about your opponent's list. I'm used to seeing Jacobus with the battle-conclave, not with normal sisters. A better unit buffer would by Kyrinov (I believe that's his name) who makes sister units within 6" fearless. Also, he could have probably done his IG allies better (2x power fists on the commissar, really?).

As for your army, seriously, consider swapping out the lascannon havocs. Giving them lascannons just makes them too big of a target and they are quite fragile. Autocannons really are the better all-around weapon and makes them less of a target priority. But the best choice IMO really are oblits, though they are quite expensive. At least consider 1 unit of them.

**L'Etat C'Est Moi**

I guess I am not set on the auto-cannons. I am debating a similar issue in our groups facebook as well.

The way I see it there are three types of target based on saves, toughness, and AV. The first is where lascannons are prefered (Paladins/Land Raider), the second is where autocannons are prefered (infantry), and the last is where they are equally good (light mech). When I look at the places where the weapons are strong I then need to evaluate the value I am willing to pay for that premium. This could be a regional issue, but out here I am facing a lot of AV13, terminators, and the like, all which I would do better having lascannons for. You are correct about reducing target priority, but the only turn they are targetted over the daemons is turn one, where even if their target priority is reduced theya re still preferable to shooting zombies, and thus still go first.

That said, if I was playing with the autocannons, how would I handle draigowing or wraith/barge lists?

**jy2**

Normally I run oblits in my army as well. Though more expensive, they are much more survivable than 5 havocs. They are also much more flexible with the array of weaponry that they have, making them good against any type of opponent. Then again, you have to consider the rest of the army. I don't use too many daemon allies (about ~200pts only) so have more points to spend on my main force. You use more daemon allies and thus have less points to spend on your main force. But that's ok as you are relying on a bigger contribution from your allies than I do mine.

One thing I don't like about lascannon havocs is that they die just too easily with a little bit of focus fire.

**L'Etat C'Est Moi**

So I started running the math on the durability of oblits to prove that pointwise I was better having the havocs, but actually, you are totally right. A nurgle obliterator is something like six times more durable than a havoc against bolters and three times as durable against lascannons. While I am halving my ranged anti-tank by including them, but they synergize really well with the list. First they give Typhus some new playmates when he doesn't need to babysit zombies, and second they can pair their plasma cannons with the Masque, making her just as effective if I don't get my preferred wave. I will have to see if this flexibility I gain with their weapon choice is worth the reduced shots.

Also worth noting is that my army without havocs literally could care less about heldrakes, further allowing me to ignore most fliers.

I will let you know how it goes.

**hippesthippo**

"Q: Do modifiers that apply to such things as Reserve rolls, apply to units from an allied detachment? (p124)
A: No."
-WARHAMMER 40,000 RULEBOOK Official Update Version 1.0

Just so you know, that comms relay doesn't affect your Daemons.. seems silly to have the relay just for two heldrakes. Your report doesn't make it clear how you were using it, so I might be wrong to assume, but those points could go a long way towards some more MoN VotLW Obliterators (which are awesome by the way.. assault cannons are lovely). You have the Zombies to screen your army anyways, you don't really need an Aegis.

**L'Etat C'Est Moi**

The comms relay is not a modifier, but rather it is a reroll. Thus, while it would affect say an Astropath for IG, it would not modify the way the comms relay operates.

From what I can discern online, and from conversations with our gaming organization, concensous is that because of this the comms relay does affect allies. No opponents have had issue with this either.

How do other's feel on this issue?

**hippesthippo**

Good point. I stand corrected.