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Tourney coming up an FLGS and I'm going Tzeench on em. Here's the list.


HQ

Ahriman

Elite

Terminator x2
3 terminators w/ combimeltas

Troops

Thousand Sons x3
7 TS's w/ Rhino

Cultists x2
20 Cultists

Fast Attack

Heldrake
Hades Autocannon

Heavy Support

Havocs x2
4 Autocannons


Basic Strategy
Ahriman, the sorcerers and the heldrake are on anti vehicle duty the TS's are gonna be doing the ground work freeing up objectives via shooting. Right now im not sure about the terminators but i was planning on DS'ing them behind any particularly tough armour and using the meltas to pop em. at the same time i feel like the list could be improved elsewhere, there are 23 points left over in the current set up and if i take out the terminators theres a 247 point spot left open.

Anyway, let me know what I can throw in or remove or modify Id love some feedback

Since you are taking this to a tourney, I assume you want it to be competitive. As it stands, there are many elements that aren't very good:

Ahriman

I don't get the love for this guy. For 110 points, you can have a level three Sorcerer. Who cares if he can't fire multiple witchfire powers a turn? He has access to many of the really good buffs and has enough levels to use them. Always getting the infiltrate is nice, but you aren't really making great use of it.

Terminator x2
3 terminators w/ combimeltas

I don't really see these as necessary anymore. Termicide was decent when vehicles were always taken. Now it's not as important.

Thousand Sons x3
7 TS's w/ Rhino

1k Sons are horrible. Like the other cult troops, they are overpriced. You simply can't justify a slow and purposeful 23 point MEQ with a 4+ and AP3 in competitive play.

Cultists x2
20 Cultists

Love cultists.

Heldrake

I see no point in taking a Drake without taking the baleflamer. An average of 2 hits of st 8 isn't worth 170 points. A MEQ killing flamer that you can place almost anywhere is.

Havocs x2
4 Autocannons

I like VotLW on these for the LD buff once the sergeant kicks it.


If you drop Ahirman down to a level 3 Sorcerer, drop the 1k Sons down to normal MEQ with dual specials, and drop the Termies entirely, you gain a decent amount of points to play with. Consider adding something like Nurgle Spawn, Oblits, or even another Drake.

Keep in mind of Ahriman's Warlord trait, which can make even Mutilators possibly useful.

Keep in mind of Ahriman's Warlord trait, which can make even Mutilators possibly useful.

The issue is that:

a. Mutilators can already deep strike
b. The OPs list isn't set up to make the most of infiltrators

Therefore, he is paying a hefty premium when he could take 2 level 3 Sorcerers for the same price. I know which one I'd rather have....

Keep in mind he also said he was going Tzeentch.

Yeah, the only reason I choose Ahriman was to see what he's capable of, drawing attention to the fact that he can be replaced with multiple almost as competent psykers for right around the same price changed my mind. With the 1k Sons, again it was just for the tzeench theme and i didnt quite see how much more they were going to cost me for their bonuses. I've made some adjustments reflecting your suggestions as well as trying a different angle with throwing a small group of bikers in with a biker sorcerer. Let me know what you guys think. This list is just 1 point shy of the limit.

HQ:

Sorcerer 140
AoDG, MoT, Level 3 Psy

Sorcerer 135
AoDG, MoT, Bike, Level 2 Psy

Troops

Chaos Space Marines 198
9 Marines, Champ w/ Power Wep, Rhino w/ Dozer Blade

Chaos Space Marines 198
9 Marines, Champ w/ Power Wep, Rhino w/ Dozer Blade

Chaos Space Marines 198
9 Marines, Champ w/ Power Wep, Rhino w/ Dozer Blade

Chaos Cultists 90
20 Cultists

Chaos Cultists 90
20 Cultists

Fast Attack:

Chaos Bikers 90
2 meltaguns

Heldrake 170
Baleflamer

Heavy Support:

Havocs 120
5 Havocs 4 Autocannons VotLW (for Ld boost)

Havocs 120
5 Havocs 4 Autocannons VotLW (for Ld boost)

Defiler 200
Drop Reaper AC for Power Fist, Dirge Caster



I feel like there's still something that feels like it won't go right. Let me know what you think. Keep in mind I want this list to be as competitive as possible. I plan on using this and ones like it at tournaments in which money is on the line.

Id go with 1 sorcerer (on bike only).

Sorc lvl 3 with burning brand (torrent S5 AP 3 or 4) on bike. Sigil of 4+ save. Spell familiar (you don't want to loose a wound on your general to a 2 or a 12). Get him 2 more biker mates at least to ride with. Get 2 telepathy and hope for invisibility (yay 2+ save cover save). I'm assuming you want Tzeentch for coolness reasons rather than because it's good? I prefer unmarked sorcerers since torrent is better than any Witchfire power we get access to.

Doombolt is nice but you only have a 66% chance of getting it (believe it's up to half your powers from chaos god and at least 1). Better to take the torrent artifact and telepathy powers.

Give your marines meltaguns or flamers (or one of each).

Get an Aegis defence line with quad gun (100 points) for your havocs

Sorcerer 140
AoDG, MoT, Level 3 Psy

Sorcerer 135
AoDG, MoT, Bike, Level 2 Psy

I don't really think you need the add ons. You probably don't even need two.

Chaos Space Marines 198
9 Marines, Champ w/ Power Wep, Rhino w/ Dozer Blade

Chaos Space Marines 198
9 Marines, Champ w/ Power Wep, Rhino w/ Dozer Blade

Chaos Space Marines 198
9 Marines, Champ w/ Power Wep, Rhino w/ Dozer Blade

I guess my question is, what is the point of these? They don't have special weapons and aren't particlarly good in cc.

Chaos Cultists 90
20 Cultists

Chaos Cultists 90
20 Cultists

Cultists work as before.

Chaos Bikers 90
2 meltaguns

These are just an easy KP.

Heldrake 170
Baleflamer

Heavy Support:

Havocs 120
5 Havocs 4 Autocannons VotLW (for Ld boost)

Havocs 120
5 Havocs 4 Autocannons VotLW (for Ld boost)

Can't complain about any of these.

Defiler 200
Drop Reaper AC for Power Fist, Dirge Caster

Defliers are awful.

I feel like there's still something that feels like it won't go right. Let me know what you think. Keep in mind I want this list to be as competitive as possible. I plan on using this and ones like it at tournaments in which money is on the line.

The list isn't bad, it just isn't that focused. You really have to decide what you want to do. For example, I would build a competitive CSM list around a Nurgle Bike Lord and Nurgle Spawn. In addition, I see no reason not to ally with: Orks, Guard, Daemons, or Crons.

Orks give you cheap bodies. Guard give you a cheap blob and some nice toys. Crons give you great toys or flyers. Daemons give you some great units.

If you wanted a Tzeentch-ish list with Daemons:

Level 3 Sorceror
3x 25 Cultists
2 Helldrakes
3x 5 Autocannon Havocs with VotLW
Aegis Defense Line

Tzeentch Herald on Disk with Breath
6 Flamers
9 Screamers
5 Horrors w Bolt, Changeling

Is just about 1750.

My only problem with taking allies is that I only have my chaos forces and the orks from AoBR. I think it'd be fun to take allies and Orks are the next army I want to build up so I'd be all for expanding those guys. As far as the CSM go I gave them CCW's in anticipation that they'd be my main CC force. I would like to explore the Nurgle bike idea, I have to particular opposition to play any of the gods so I would be willing to change if a god has a better reputation for winning. Here's what I'm working with model wise, my FLGS is pretty loose on WYSIWYG however I like my models to be kitted out, weapons as modeled: I have ~45 CSM's, 6 Chosen, 40 Cultists, 10 Terminators, 2 Helbrutes, 2 Daemon Princes, 3 Rhinos, 8 Berzerkers, 4 Bikes, 5 Raptor/Warptalons[Boxed] 7 Raptors, 1 Predator, 1 Defiler, 1 Heldrake, and 1 Forge/Mauler Fiend[Boxed] I have various other models made up for just about all HQ's and I can proxy in named characters. I've flirted with the idea of Typhus Zombie Lists but I don't really see any value in them past being a sand pit.

I'd ideally want to make a list that gets into CC as fast as possible and just wrecks whoever it runs into. Here's 1324 of the 1750 points that I've deemed essential to the list at this point. I still have a little under 500 points to play with, I can fit the AoBR Orks in there or I can look for more support elsewhere in my Chaos Army.

HQ
Sorcerer 140
AoDG, MoT, Level 3 Psyker (I feel like giving him the upgrades is well worth it, basically im buying access to the Tzeench powers and a 4+ invul for 30 points

Troops
Cultists 180
2 groups of 20

CSM 694
Three groups of 9
Rhinos w/ dozer, ccw's champ w/ power wep

FA
Heldrake 170
Baleflamer

HS
Havocs 240
2 groups of 5 Havocs
4 AC's

I can throw in 20 boyz 1 Warboss w/ PK and 3 deffkoptas and see where that takes me. What do ya think?

quote]Sorcerer 140[
AoDG, MoT, Level 3 Psyker (I feel like giving him the upgrades is well worth it, basically im buying access to the Tzeench powers and a 4+ invul for 30 points