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So I have a pretty elite, small model count Blood Angels army I was using and was wondering if anyone has had any luck allying the two armies together?

The BA's currently look like this:
Jump librarian with Shield and Unleash Rage
X5 Jump Honor Guard w/x4 Plasmaguns (Librarian goes here to get re-rolls of 1's on Plasma)

X5 Sanguinary Guard w/x1 Inferno Pistol
Sanguinary Priest w/ Jump Pack and Power Sword(goes with Guard)

X5 Death Company in TL Lascannon Razorback
Death Company Dread

I thought if I added two squads of 10 Grey Hunters in Pods or Rhinos, not only would I get some of the best troops available to Marines, but also add the numbers and objective capturing ability I lack. I was also thinking of using Bjorn to lead them because he's awesome.

Any ideas?
Thanks!
T-

I love the honor guard trick with unleash rage, but I can't get behind the DC or the DC dread.

Grey hunters make every list better. I don't own any, or I would use them. The only downside is you have to take another marine HQ, which I consider a liability usually.

I didn't really specify earlier, the Blood Angels come to about 950pts, and so the goal of 1500pts would leav 550pts for Space Wolves. I realize that Bjorn and two squads of 10 Grey Hunters plus transports might end up being a little over, but it was just a start I was kicking around.

By the way, can anyone suggest which weapon would be best for Bjorn's mighty BS6?

Thanks!
T-


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks for the reply!

Yeah, I totally realize that the 125pt Librarian and the 225pt Honor Guard is a lot of eggs in one basket, but if you start rolling 4-8 D6 as if you were rolling To Hit with re-rolls on all 1's, and then re-roll all 1's To Wound, you're going to see a lot of accurate Hits and a lot of Wounds. And sure, firing off that much plasma is risky, but IF on your re-rolls you end up with 1's and a need to make Gets Hot saves, you've got the awesome 3+ save backed up by your Sanguinary Novitiate's 5+ Feel No Pain save. So, you really shouldn't be losing many, if any to your own weapons at least.

Now, totally random, because it is based on dice rolls of course, but I did a mock round of shooting against a squad of x5 Terminators and only once or twice did I not wipe out the whole squad based on getting 8 hits and 8 wounds and only making 2 or 3 of the required 5+ Invulnerable saves. Its pretty awesome haha

Anyways!
Got any other thoughts all you Lords o' the Dice? Lol
T-

On the topic of Bjorn's weapon i'd suggest a plasma cannon because with his high BS even a Scatter result is extremely likely to be nearly pinpoint accurate anyways (average on 2 dice is 7 so you'll miss by an inch on average).

On the topic of Plasma Guard I absolutely adore them, when I used to play a DoA list they were the MVP nearly every single game.

However I'm not sure I see the logic of putting a unit of absurdly good assault troops into a razorback, because ideally they want to be chopping foes ASAP which would mean you'd want to be moving as fast as possible which pretty much invalidates the guns on the razorback.

Personally I wouldn't even bother with Bjorn. I'd rather have a Rune Priest (also has one of the best psychic defences in the game) and load him up with all kinds of toys. Master of Runes for two powers, chooser of the slain to prevent infiltrators and add BS +1 for any enemy in LoS of both RP and CotS. I think at that point you might even have enough points for a few more GH or maybe even a couple WG to add LD to the GH and give them just a few more attacks if you wanted.

The Death Company I run are Bolter armed, so they could just Relentlessly advance with the DC Dreadnought, and save the Razorback for something else?

I have 2 Pods and at least 1 Rhino and 1 Razorback to use as available transports for either army.

I'm open to suggestions, but would like to leave the BA's as they are currently,and maybe Bjorn. Any other ideas are appreciated!

Thanks!
T-

bjorn is awesome....fluff wise. Rules-wise he was not great in 5th and is pretty horrible in 6th. I run space wolves with blood angel allies for two reasons-
1. so I can have my 13th company have death company rules
2. so I can call a death company dreadnought BJORN and not have him be horrible


As for your army, you really cannot go wrong with the space wolf staples of grey hunters, rune priest, long fangs.
a naked rune priest-100
6 long fangs (5ml)- 140
loaded up grey hunters (2 plasma, 1 banner, 1 mark of the wulfen)-185

thats a log of bang for only 425 points worth of bucks...

Bjorn yes he is epic and expensive

Double-check the Unleash Rage power. IIRC it can only be cast at the beginning of the Assault Phase which would not help your honor guard in regard to shooting their plasma guns.

You'll want to switch out for divination to get rerolls for all attacks. In general, the book powers are superior to codex powers.

So, is there a way to keep Shield of Sanguinius and still get a roll on Divination or is it just worth it to go all Divination?

I didn't know about Unleash Rage, I have to check it out.
So, Divination for the Blood Angels Librarian and Living Lightning/JOWW if I go with a Rune Priest?

Any other thoughts ?
Thanks!
T-

You can not mix codex and core book powers. Divination is significantly better overall than the codex powers, in my opinion.

The 4++ save for a squad might be the most useful power on the list. It doesn't sound like much until you cast it and the get charged by incubi and they fail to win the combat

Even the primaris power is pretty nice: rerolls on all to hit rolls for a full turn cycle.

Ok, I'm liking the look of Divination for the Blood Angels Librarian, I think (as Martel said) even the Primaris power will do most of what I want to do with firing off that much plasma from the Honor Guard, AND it'll allow me to re-roll 2's, which Unleash Rage would not have (not that it works anyways, its assault only, thanks for the heads up!).

So, after some thought and practical thinking, I might add Bjorn later on. The Blood Angel list comes to 950pts, which leaves me with 550pts to make 1500 total. I like the Blood Angels the way they are, but I can see that maybe the TL Lascannon Razorback might not be the best for the five Bolter Death Company, so I'm open to suggestions there.
Otherwise, I think for 550pts I can definitely fit in a Rune Priest with LL/JOWW (unless anyone suggests otherwise) and either two packs of 10 Grey Hunters or one of 10 and one of 9 to allow the Priest a place in a transport if that's a thought.
Basically, the Wolves are there to add weight of numbers and objective capturing, which is definitely something I lack with the higher points cost units in my Blood Angel list. I've heard Grey Hunters are some of the best, so what better to use? Haha

Anyways, anyone have any ideas?
Thanks!
T-

So, I've decided to keep the Blood Angels the way they are, but not sure if the TL Lascannon razorback os the best delivery system for the Death Company, so id be up for suggestions onthat one.

Otherwise, I'm actually going with a Rune Priest and two squads of Grey Hunters (one with x2 Flamers, PF, MotW, and one with x2 Meltaguns, PF, and MotW) but I'm trying to decide if they need Rhinos or Drop Pods.

I figure, Bjorn can be my 2nd Space Wolves HQ later on. As awesome as he is, I agree the Rune Priest might be more useful for less points.

Anyone have any suggestions for finalizing this list?
Thanks!
T-

Unfortunately, there are now precious few ways to deliver the DC well.

One way is 15 point jump packs. That seems a bit crazy to me, since the DC are only 20 points to start with.

Drop Pod is another option. This will likely get a turn 2 assault after being shot at for one turn.

The best way to deliver them is unfortunately the 250 pt LR. It keeps them from being shot, and gives them the charge range of jump pack DC. And the LR can shoot some stuff.

The drop pod method fits your budget the best.

On the Rune Priest, Jaws is pretty good, but I think you should always consider murderous hurricane. It's not gonna one shot a carnifex 75% of the time like Jaws, but it always serves me well. The ability to throw out 3d6 hits on top of the movement reduction the squad can take can be really good. If I were you, seeing how you don't want to change the BA force at all, this is the 550 point SW detachment I would make to bring your army up to 1500 points...

HQ - Rune Priest
Troop - Grey Hunters, Plasma x2, Wolf Standard, Rhino (or Drop Pod)
Troop - Grey Hunters, Plasma x2, Wolf Standard, Rhino (or Drop Pod)
Long Fangs x6, ML x5,

I'd attach the RP to the Long Fangs (using divination or just sitting back shooting living lightning or murderous hurricane on advancing threats) and take some cover. The Grey Hunters are obviously great at whatever they need to do (holding objectives, pushing up and helping with the dakka mid-board, whatever...), so drop pod them wherever you need em! Since you said you have a razorback and a rhino, I'd just use both of those as rhino APCs for the Grey Hunters. That'll save you some cash, on not buying pods (although I have about 8 drop pods that are built out of PVC pipes and look awesome, so you don't have to spend but a couple bucks for some pods). This edition I really like having at least 1 drop pod in any SW army. Dropping 1/2 of them (far more reliably than last edition) wherever you want 1st turn is nice....

The only real thing I'm not sure on for the BA's as I said was the transport for the DC.

Available transports are the Rhino, the Razorback (or 2nd Rhino) and 2 Drop Pods.

@Erik the Red- how many in each squad of GH's are you thinking? Full 10 each?

I appreciate the feedback, I figured the Rune Priest might be a good way to go, and also costs 170pts less than Bjorn haha

I noticed Murderous Hurricane, and definitely thought about it. Is it best to pay the 50pts to use. Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane in one shooting phase?

Thanks!
T-

I love MoR and those are my two favourite powers, I feel like Murderous Hurricane is an underestimated power because it doesn't have the pure devastation like JotWW or LL but that's because it's real power lies in making your opponents every move a risk. And remember it lasts the whole turn so that means movement and assault. I find it especially helpful against my mates assault termies.

I personally think the best delivery system for DC are drop pods but it really requires your list to be built around it. If you give one of your GH squads a drop pod, you can drop the DC and DC Dread Turn 1. I would drop the SG to get more DC bodies, I have found 5 is not a very hard hitting unit. SG and DC serve similar roles so I suggest taking one or the other. If this is done, you wouldn't need your Priest either.

 Trogdor the Burninator wrote:
The only real thing I'm not sure on for the BA's as I said was the transport for the DC.

Available transports are the Rhino, the Razorback (or 2nd Rhino) and 2 Drop Pods.

@Erik the Red- how many in each squad of GH's are you thinking? Full 10 each?

I appreciate the feedback, I figured the Rune Priest might be a good way to go, and also costs 170pts less than Bjorn haha

I noticed Murderous Hurricane, and definitely thought about it. Is it best to pay the 50pts to use. Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane in one shooting phase?

Thanks!
T-

Yes, full 10 man squads. Even if you take Master of the Runes, the BRB clearly states that no psyker can make 2 psychic shooting attacks in a single round. I'd use him as a 100 point utility hero, or with just Chooser of the Slain. He gets too expensive with all the upgrades. (Runic Armor is debatable...) It's also very funny to giev him a jump pack and abuse Jaws really badly. I've played 4 Rune Priests in a list (all with Jaws) and ended up playing both a Necron and a Tyranid player in a local tournament. All sorts of nasties fell into giant earthquake holes that day!!!! I managed to nuke 2 Necron lords in the first 2 turns of our game. If you want to use the Hunters in a back board objective holding roll, consider adding WG with TDA to the squads. That's great for Long Fangs too. In the list I played last week, My evil shooty squad was 6x Long Fangs, 3x Missile Launchers, 2x Lascannons, a Rune Priest with Divination and a Wolf Guard squad leader with Cyclone Missile Launcher. Thats a lot of high strength (essentially) twin linked fire-power coming from a single squad WITH SPLIT FIRE!!!! don't listen to the haters who tell you to kill of the squad leader first every game. Keeping the squad leader alive is worth more than loosing a ML guy the first couple turns, IF...the squad is big and nasty like this, and shooting a single target is overkilling it.

the Blood Angels are probably going to stay the way they are, with a later addition (I think) of 5 more DC and a Storm Raven to cruise in (and subsequently drop out of, with or without the DC Dread). I may then, drop the points spent on a Razorback for the DC and could just make it a Rhino to keep it cheap..

That opens up a little bit more to spend.
Id like to keep the Sanguinary Guard/Priest and the DC because I've already started painting the models as a core for the army. I bought them, Ill use them. The other thing is I don't see redundancy with the Sang Guard and the Death Company. They function differently, especially since I run DC on foot with Bolters and SG are Jump Troops with Power Weapons and awesome armor.

Any other thoughts?
Thanks!
T-

So after some tweaking I'm still not sure where I'm at lol
I've gotten it narrowed down to a core list, but am missing some key elements, take a look:

Jump Librarian (with)
X5 Honor Guard w/x4 Plasmaguns

Sanguinary Priest, Jump Pack, Power Sword (with)
X5 Sanguinary Guard w/ x1 Infernus Pistol

X5 Bolter Death Company
Death Company Dreadnought
X10 Tactical Marines w/ Plasmagun, Plasma Cannon

Rune Priest
X10 Grey Hunters, x2 Meltas, Fist, MotW
X10 Grey Hunters, x2 Flamers, Fist, MotW


So, pretty obviously missing transports and anti-flyer attacks. Does Living Lightning function against Flyers? If so, that's not too bad, but if not, I'm relying on really short ranged Snapshots.

I wouldn't mind getting a Rhino for the DC to close the distance and maybe a pair of Pods for the Grey Hunters. The Tactical squad can hold any home/close to home objectives.

As is, the list comes to 1550pts, which is a little over and a little lacking. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
T-