Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all

So yesterday i bought an aegis defence line for my blood rVens and got tempted buy a bastion... But before i buy it... is it worth it? Whats its major benefot? Or will it just be another peice of terrain in the long run?

Bastions and Aegis lines are very worth it. A skyshield landing pad is insanely good, when someone lets you bring one.

Why though. I get aegis lines. Cover save and big gun to fire at flyers?

Why the pad? I dont rhink i understand it...

Skyshield - elevated position, 4+ invulnerable save, large area to put models on

Use one with a deamons army or with a gunline and see what happens.

When you've seen a guard player hide all is ordnance on a sky shield you really wanna punch somebody.

Aegis Line is the only one I've seen so far. One person in my play group owns the sky shield, but he hasn't used it yet in 6th edition.

I mostly use the Aegis and Bastion, the skyshield just feels .. wrong.. not to mention it seems to break/confuse a lot of rules.

Ok cool. Thanks guys so where abouts do you set it up. Can you put it anywhere? Ive not got the rulebook with me... At the dentists :-(


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ill tey it out sometime with my demon army if its really that good... other than that... i suppose i could drop my vindis on it in my blood ravens...

 Shandara wrote:
Skyshield - elevated position, 4+ invulnerable save, large area to put models on

Its even cheesier than that.

RAW, if only one model is on the pad, the entire squad gets the 4+ invuln from shooting.

So, you take a blob of 20-50 models, and you put 2-3 of them on the pad. You then string out the rest from the pad to effect whatever area you want to. You have a 4+ invlun from shooting for the entire squad.

If you play that way, expect people to call you TFG, but if WAAC is your motto, then go for it!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shandara wrote:
I mostly use the Aegis and Bastion.

I have had excellent luck with the Bastion. The way a bastion works is that its effectivly an AV 14 vehicle with as many hull points as you have models. At range its an extremely hard target for most armies to take out.

I've used it to hold 20 guard before. You can shoot 2 PGs and 2 AC from the bastion, and put a squad of ratlings on top to shoot the quad gun. Ratlings IIRC have stealth so you get a 3+ cover save on the parapit.

I've used to hold 15 CSM before. I keep them in the bastion until turn 4-5 when they need to come out and take objectives.

I've used it to block LOS to models. At BFS I brought daemons allies with CSM. I started with my CSM DP on the table hidden behind the bastion. I then deep struck in my daemons and flew hidden prince out from the bastion. This allowed me to still take second turn and keep my army well protected.

Bastions are death traps if your facing daemons with flamers. Just a fair warning

 labmouse42 wrote:
RAW, if only one model is on the pad, the entire squad gets the 4+ invuln from shooting.

So, you take a blob of 20-50 models, and you put 2-3 of them on the pad. You then string out the rest from the pad to effect whatever area you want to. You have a 4+ invlun from shooting for the entire squad.

If you play that way, expect people to call you TFG, but if WAAC is your motto, then go for it!

So people who follow the rules are TFG/WAAC?

I do not understand.

I actually use a FoR (fortress of redeeption.) Its basically an immobile lan raider with skyfire interceptor and i love it.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Skyshield - elevated position, 4+ invulnerable save, large area to put models on

Its even cheesier than that.

RAW, if only one model is on the pad, the entire squad gets the 4+ invuln from shooting.

So, you take a blob of 20-50 models, and you put 2-3 of them on the pad. You then string out the rest from the pad to effect whatever area you want to. You have a 4+ invlun from shooting for the entire squad.

Aren't saving throws (such as whether a model is in cover) done on a model by model basis?

 kronk wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Skyshield - elevated position, 4+ invulnerable save, large area to put models on

Its even cheesier than that.

RAW, if only one model is on the pad, the entire squad gets the 4+ invuln from shooting.

So, you take a blob of 20-50 models, and you put 2-3 of them on the pad. You then string out the rest from the pad to effect whatever area you want to. You have a 4+ invlun from shooting for the entire squad.

Aren't saving throws (such as whether a model is in cover) done on a model by model basis?

^this

I have not tried the enclosed fortifications yet but since our gaming group has the kit they almost always end up on the table as derelict building(-2AV).
So far every time someone captured one of these neutral building,he has come to regret it.
The rules for damaging buildings are not kind for the occupying unit giving out STR 6 hits like candy on halloween.
I like all the rules so far like grenades and flamers,really gives some kind of realistic feel to the game (yeah i know...).
I am sure the difference between AV12 and AV14 reduce a lot the numbers of saves the units inside has to take but what is your experience on that matter?
Do you roll with the punches or is there nothing to roll at?

I did try aegis a few times and had incredibly good luck with aegis with icarus lascanon.
So much luck in fact that my main opponent reconsidered fielding his stormravens(1 one shotted one with interceptor each time he fielded them as it arrived on the board).
That is an oddity but it made me make aegis an auto-include.Of course the gun can be singled out but it is not as easy as it seems with a 4+cover.

 DeathReaper wrote:
So people who follow the rules are TFG/WAAC?

I do not understand.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:
Aren't saving throws (such as whether a model is in cover) done on a model by model basis?

They are. However, the skyshield does not give models a 4++ save. It gives units a 4++ save

"Units on top of a shielded Skyshield Landing Pad have a 4+ invlunerable save against enemy Shooting attacks"
p115 BRB

Ergo, one model if you have one model from the unit on the pad, the unit has a 4++ save from shooting. The arguement is that there is nothing that says "The entire unit" has to be on the pad. The unit in question is on top of the pad, and off the pad. Since it matches the criteria for the skyshield landing pad, the unit gets a 4++ save.

I agree that is not RoI, and playing that way will make you TFG. There is a very solid rules case, however, you can make to give the unit a 4++ save from shooting attacks because one model is one the pad.
I would not suggest trying this at a tourney, or the TO may laugh at you.

mydoorisajar wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Skyshield - elevated position, 4+ invulnerable save, large area to put models on

Its even cheesier than that.

RAW, if only one model is on the pad, the entire squad gets the 4+ invuln from shooting.

So, you take a blob of 20-50 models, and you put 2-3 of them on the pad. You then string out the rest from the pad to effect whatever area you want to. You have a 4+ invlun from shooting for the entire squad.

Aren't saving throws (such as whether a model is in cover) done on a model by model basis?

^this

The tactic is the same as how folks utilize the Kustom Force Field. Check both rules out you'll see how the tactic can be utilized.

Hint: The Skyshield Landing Pad gives the unit a 4+; it does not mean the entire unit has to be on the Skyshield to gain this benefit, much like the KFF giving a save to every Boy in the unit by having one boy in said unit within 6" of the Mekboy with KFF.

Locally, I regularly see and face off against the ADL and Bastion. Also, the Quad Gun is the weapon option of choice.

I have seen and gone up against FoR, Aegis line and wall of martyrs. As for me I dont use fortifications since I do not see a need for them, due to the lack of flying circuses and such in my gaming club.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
RAW, if only one model is on the pad, the entire squad gets the 4+ invuln from shooting.

So, you take a blob of 20-50 models, and you put 2-3 of them on the pad. You then string out the rest from the pad to effect whatever area you want to. You have a 4+ invlun from shooting for the entire squad.

If you play that way, expect people to call you TFG, but if WAAC is your motto, then go for it!

So people who follow the rules are TFG/WAAC?

I do not understand.

If you look at the description for the Skyshield you will notice its has Access Points. And like every other model that contains Access Points(buildings and vehicles), you cannot split a unit to be halfway on and halfway off. Just like you can't partially embark a squad into a transport or partially decide to have a unit enter a building.

Im a big fan of the FoR.

Lots of guns, lots of fire power and if they try to play that "Ill just put a terrain piece in front of it to block LOS crap" it is a disadvantage to them.

I've played a game where both sides took a FoR on a 4x4 table.

Now that was amusing.

To make the game actually challenging, we made it so that the only "objectives" were the opponent's FoR, and the more you blew it up, the less VPs you'd get.

^^ haha i think if i saw an opponent with a FoR as well i would just look at him blankly and say, "Well....this is awkward....."

im making a uber FoR ... its gonna be MASSIVE and packed full of guns. will also cost about 500 pts... but hey. nothing wrong with dat.

Only using ADL as it's mandatory in 6th, sometimes play vs Bastions. Do not see any other forts as they are, rightfully so, banned.

x13rads wrote:
If you look at the description for the Skyshield you will notice its has Access Points. And like every other model that contains Access Points(buildings and vehicles), you cannot split a unit to be halfway on and halfway off. Just like you can't partially embark a squad into a transport or partially decide to have a unit enter a building.

The Skyshield is not a building and you do not embark onto it.

Plus It helps to check the FaQ's:

"Page 115 – Fortifications, Skyshield Landing Pad. Ignore the reference to Access Points & Fire Points." P. 2 BRB FaQ.

Everyone hates on every fort except the ADL, and even that gets hated on. And because they get so hated on, people ban them at their shops. Personally, that's a bad thing to do. If you ban them, no one will ever learn how to counter them and that's why they are so OP because no one has understood how to counter them yet. They just get slaughtered and the fort gets banned. It's gonna be like everything else, once people learn to counter them it's gonna be much less OP feeling (much like the Necron Airforce did. People screamed OP, and now that people have learned how to fight it it's not as strong)

But yeah, I see the ADL used basically by everyone, I see Bastions quite a bit but not as often, I see Skyshields once in a while and I know at least one guy who uses a FoR

 washout77 wrote:
Everyone hates on every fort except the ADL, and even that gets hated on. And because they get so hated on, people ban them at their shops. Personally, that's a bad thing to do. If you ban them, no one will ever learn how to counter them and that's why they are so OP because no one has understood how to counter them yet. They just get slaughtered and the fort gets banned. It's gonna be like everything else, once people learn to counter them it's gonna be much less OP feeling (much like the Necron Airforce did. People screamed OP, and now that people have learned how to fight it it's not as strong)

But yeah, I see the ADL used basically by everyone, I see Bastions quite a bit but not as often, I see Skyshields once in a while and I know at least one guy who uses a FoR

What gaming shop bans the use of fortifications? This is the first I've heard of it. I know my FLGS doesn't, that would hurt their wallet since they've sold god knows how many ADL's, bastions, and skyshields since. Its the best thing to put a lot of lootas on, finally get a save vs flamer templates. When the new CD lists all have flamers and screamers, you know you need to have some defense against flamers.

Paitryn wrote:

 washout77 wrote:
Everyone hates on every fort except the ADL, and even that gets hated on. And because they get so hated on, people ban them at their shops. Personally, that's a bad thing to do. If you ban them, no one will ever learn how to counter them and that's why they are so OP because no one has understood how to counter them yet. They just get slaughtered and the fort gets banned. It's gonna be like everything else, once people learn to counter them it's gonna be much less OP feeling (much like the Necron Airforce did. People screamed OP, and now that people have learned how to fight it it's not as strong)

But yeah, I see the ADL used basically by everyone, I see Bastions quite a bit but not as often, I see Skyshields once in a while and I know at least one guy who uses a FoR

What gaming shop bans the use of fortifications? This is the first I've heard of it. I know my FLGS doesn't, that would hurt their wallet since they've sold god knows how many ADL's, bastions, and skyshields since. Its the best thing to put a lot of lootas on, finally get a save vs flamer templates. When the new CD lists all have flamers and screamers, you know you need to have some defense against flamers.

I have heard a quite a few that maybe while not banning them you won't be getting too many games in.

And I only meant banning the Skyshield. Most allow the ADL and Bastion (and who seriously uses a FoR hahahahaha), but I just don't see how the Skyshield is so terrible and OP that it can't be used. Sure, some of the rules are a bit hazy, but ban them in Tournaments then not casual play haha

 washout77 wrote:
And I only meant banning the Skyshield. Most allow the ADL and Bastion (and who seriously uses a FoR hahahahaha), but I just don't see how the Skyshield is so terrible and OP that it can't be used. Sure, some of the rules are a bit hazy, but ban them in Tournaments then not casual play haha

I've yet to see a tourney where the skyshield was allowed. The reason is less for balance and more that the board already has terrain on it.

 labmouse42 wrote:
I have had excellent luck with the Bastion. The way a bastion works is that its effectivly an AV 14 vehicle with as many hull points as you have models. At range its an extremely hard target for most armies to take out.

More hull points with fortune, but the bane is results of 1 on the penetrating table.. or Necron scarabs.

Well thanks very much guys, so far youve really helped...

What i must say ive learnt is:

"I must buy the skyshield landing pad"

Demon army, so you know...

LOL