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I was reading through the Codex and came across Lucius. He doesn't seem that bad, and I was actually thinking of running him with my Cultists and see what happens.

He is a bit too costly for me. A slaamesh lord with the burning brand is cheaper and as effective.

Kevlar is absolutely right, for the points, a MoS CL with the brand is just as good. Even gives you access to cult troops.

The only thing you don't get is the special rule about wounds going back on enemies. I don't know anyone who thinks that justifies the points.

Am I the only one who has noticed there are a lot of cult troops / characters who are just more expensive versions of something else in the book? Like, Khorne CSMs are actually better than Berzerkers for the points. Same number of attacks on the charge.

Except that Lucius will smack around other challenges that a Lord with Brand wont due to his other wargear and special abilities. With a Doom siren (higher base S, same AP, but no torrent) he is a great guy for burning then charging into anything.

He definantly is more than just a MOS Lord with a Burning Brand. I have him in my army and its been fun. I also have a Lord on bike with Brand because it is also fun.

A lord with a brand will kill many more things out of combat than luscious will. The objective is to keep him buttoned up in a rhino and keep him out of combat shooting every turn.

Actually Lucius will kill more. His Doom siren is S5 vs the brands S4. Lucius can drive around in a rhino just as easily as the lord. He just has to get a little closer. However, 12" isn't that huge of a buffer. Rhino gets popped, lord dies in the ensuing HTH, no more brand.

It comes down to cost, for 5 points more you can take a Lord with MoS, bike, LC and Brand.

Lucius is just nearly as cost effective as the other options in the codex.

 Jayden63 wrote:
Actually Lucius will kill more. His Doom siren is S5 vs the brands S4. Lucius can drive around in a rhino just as easily as the lord. He just has to get a little closer. However, 12" isn't that huge of a buffer. Rhino gets popped, lord dies in the ensuing HTH, no more brand.

The extra range on the torrent flamer ensures you always hit the max number of enemy. And it lets you screen the lord's rhino. I am running 4 to 6 rhinos with msu noise marines with sirens. So if my lords rhino gets popped he just hops in the next closest one. I don't worry about assault troops. If they think they can make it through the wall of doom sirens, bale flamers, plasma cannons, and tzeentch flamer templates, let them try!

Lucius is a master of the challenge. All of his abilities enhance his prowess in single combat. He's likely to win most every challenge he is in, so it's really more of a case of how you get the most out of his abilities. I think he is a very fun IC, and can really earn his points back if he goes up against expensive HQs.

Lucious isn't bad but you can save a bunch of points with the brand and just avoid close combat.

I do think the list of characters that will kill lucious in combat is a bit longer than the list of characters he can kill. Pretty much none of the ones with terminator armor and power fists will lose to him and that probably makes up half the loyalist choices.

He seems like he's really good at killing guys with 3+.
I tend not to like chaos combat characters because they are kind of wasted in the event that your opponent has not invested in their squad leader. Boy will he murder a guy with a bolter and proceed to be stuck in combat against a squad that might cost as many points as he does.

I guess he isn't a bad way to ram extra templates into your list. Imagine having 2 rhinos firing 2 AP3 flamers each from the top!

 gpfunk wrote:
Lucius is a master of the challenge. All of his abilities enhance his prowess in single combat. He's likely to win most every challenge he is in, so it's really more of a case of how you get the most out of his abilities. I think he is a very fun IC, and can really earn his points back if he goes up against expensive HQs.

he cant penetrate a 2+, which a lot of enemies have.

I guess it is a YMDC thing, but do the attacks thrown back by his armor have the shred special rule? His lash says that all of his melee attacks have shred, but does that include the bounce attacks?

I would think if it says all attacks, then yes they all have shred.

I was just going to use him to run up with my 35x Mok cultists.
No other upgrades, just pistols and CC

 Solomongrundy wrote:
I would think if it says all attacks, then yes they all have shred.

I was just going to use him to run up with my 35x Mok cultists.
No other upgrades, just pistols and CC

You mean MOS cultists?

Giving them I4, would that really make much of a difference compared to an additional attack. Giving them 5 attacks on the charge.

 Solomongrundy wrote:
Giving them I4, would that really make much of a difference compared to an additional attack. Giving them 5 attacks on the charge.

but lucius can only join MoS or unmarked units

Ha o yea I forgot about that....damn
I don't think a MoS is worth it on Cultists.....is it?

 Solomongrundy wrote:
Ha o yea I forgot about that....damn
I don't think a MoS is worth it on Cultists.....is it?

mok probably isn't worth it either.
tzeench and nurgle def arn't
cultists are best cheap.

Lucius problem to me has always been reliable transport, I hate the idea of having to use another HQ (Huron) to make him viable. A bike, a bike! My kingdom for a bike!

 TheDevo wrote:
Lucius problem to me has always been reliable transport, I hate the idea of having to use another HQ (Huron) to make him viable. A bike, a bike! My kingdom for a bike!

if only that had included

for +15 points, the last person to have killed him had wings or a jump pack. Now he has wings or a jump pack.

for +20 points, the last model to have killed him had a bike with twinlinked boltguns. Now he has a bike with twinlinked boltguns.

for +25 points the last model to have killed him had terminator armor. Now he has terminator armor.

 TheDevo wrote:
Lucius problem to me has always been reliable transport, I hate the idea of having to use another HQ (Huron) to make him viable. A bike, a bike! My kingdom for a bike!

Rhinos are fairly reliable for noise marines. Its how I run all my squads. I take bolt pistols, bolters, and close combat weapons. With good shooting and the doom siren they can disembark and lay down some nice fire. If they get charged they are init 5 so they go first *usually*. If they don't get assaulted then shoot again and make your own assault.

 Exergy wrote:

if only that had included

for +15 points, the last person to have killed him had wings or a jump pack. Now he has wings or a jump pack.

for +20 points, the last model to have killed him had a bike with twinlinked boltguns. Now he has a bike with twinlinked boltguns.

for +25 points the last model to have killed him had terminator armor. Now he has terminator armor.

Hopefully I'll live long enough to see it.

Kevlar wrote:

Rhinos are fairly reliable for noise marines. Its how I run all my squads. I take bolt pistols, bolters, and close combat weapons. With good shooting and the doom siren they can disembark and lay down some nice fire. If they get charged they are init 5 so they go first *usually*. If they don't get assaulted then shoot again and make your own assault.

I've run dual Sirens to great effect in the past, but putting 400 points of eggs in a paper Rhino basket can draw a lot of very unwanted fire. You would have to use IoE for when your Rhino inevitably cracks to limp across the board.

The etetnal is a duelist he will rip through most IC and be capable of wrecking squads

 Exergy wrote:

 gpfunk wrote:
Lucius is a master of the challenge. All of his abilities enhance his prowess in single combat. He's likely to win most every challenge he is in, so it's really more of a case of how you get the most out of his abilities. I think he is a very fun IC, and can really earn his points back if he goes up against expensive HQs.

he cant penetrate a 2+, which a lot of enemies have.

I guess it is a YMDC thing, but do the attacks thrown back by his armor have the shred special rule? His lash says that all of his melee attacks have shred, but does that include the bounce attacks?

]

He can't penetrate it, but he can certainly force enough wounds on them to have them fail one. Dice probability means that you've got a 1/6 chance to fail that 2+, Lucius can really put down a lot of wounds.

 gpfunk wrote:
Lucius is a master of the challenge. All of his abilities enhance his prowess in single combat. He's likely to win most every challenge he is in, so it's really more of a case of how you get the most out of his abilities. I think he is a very fun IC, and can really earn his points back if he goes up against expensive HQs.

Oh okay let's match him up against the swarmlord or how about mephiston, that's expensive lucius gone in a single round and the enemy deathstar earring half it's points back in a turn. Not really worth it is it?

BaconUprising wrote:

 gpfunk wrote:
Lucius is a master of the challenge. All of his abilities enhance his prowess in single combat. He's likely to win most every challenge he is in, so it's really more of a case of how you get the most out of his abilities. I think he is a very fun IC, and can really earn his points back if he goes up against expensive HQs.

Oh okay let's match him up against the swarmlord or how about mephiston, that's expensive lucius gone in a single round and the enemy deathstar earring half it's points back in a turn. Not really worth it is it?

frankly any GK sergeant, chump with a force weapon, or terminator with a powerfist can take him.

also he isnt a counter to super nasties as mentioned, he might do some damage but will lose to just about all of them.

The Devo wrote:
I've run dual Sirens to great effect in the past, but putting 400 points of eggs in a paper Rhino basket can draw a lot of very unwanted fire. You would have to use IoE for when your Rhino inevitably cracks to limp across the board.

Its about 150 points per squad and will wipe out most MEQ. Opponents aren't usually targetting rhinos on turn one and on turn 2 they should be where you need them. Works great in a rush list.

Kevlar wrote:

The Devo wrote:
I've run dual Sirens to great effect in the past, but putting 400 points of eggs in a paper Rhino basket can draw a lot of very unwanted fire. You would have to use IoE for when your Rhino inevitably cracks to limp across the board.

Its about 150 points per squad and will wipe out most MEQ. Opponents aren't usually targetting rhinos on turn one and on turn 2 they should be where you need them. Works great in a rush list.

Like the strategy but I have to disagree, smart opponents WILL pop a sh!tty rhino earning them an easy first blood. If your fine with that then ok, but I am finding rhinos/razorbacks really useless in most MEQ armies now. Yours being one exception, again aside from giving up an easy FB.

What irks me the most about lucious is that the MOST important part of his fluff has no game effect. I'm referring to his resurrection, it's irritating that Celestine, Thawn, Yarrick and every Necron Lord all have decent opportunity to get back up but the one guy from the fluff who ALWAYS gets back up can't resurrect at any point in a game. Serious wtf

Lucius took a major nerf this edition.

Before, he reduced all opponents in base contact to 1 attack. Now, it is just reduced by 1. That alone made him very difficult to kill.

As for being the master of the duel, that really depends on what kind of armor his opponent has (as mentioned above already). His lack of AP2 is devastating.

Now, he does have some nice situational uses. Throw him into a large chunk of boys. He kills 5 or 6, then the boys swing back. Every 2 saves he makes on average equals one more dead boy, guard, nid. etc.

And lastly, saying he can't hold up to the Swarm Lord in CC? Really? Is that even a fair comparison? How many ICs in the entire 40K game can make that claim?

My friend ran Lucius once. I assaulted his 20-man chaos marine squad with my 5 man TH/SS, Vulcan, Librarian squad. Then he counter assaulted with his 5 man terminator + Lucius squad and challenged me. I accepted with Vulcan. He wounded Vulcan twice and I got no wounds in the 1st round of combat. 2nd round, we both wiffed. 3rd round I heroic intervention with my TH/SS champion, we both wiffed. 4th round I had wiped out both his terminator squad and his chaos marine squad having lost 4 terminators in the process. He puts some hits on my TH/SS sergeant but I save them all. Then, the wrath of the emperor lands smack on his skull and he is out for he count by 1 wound I caused. HAH!