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So at my FLGS were having a tourniment - the list I use is so far undefeated in 6th edition - constructive criticism wanted ! Local Meta is Space Marines and Necrons


HQ - CCS - x2 Plasma guns , Plasma pistol , Melta bombs

Troops.

Vet squad - x2 Plasma Guns - Chimera
Vet squad - x2 Plasma Guns - Chimera
Vet Squad - x2 Plasma Guns - Chimera

Vet Squad - Missile Launcher - Chimera
Vet Squad - Missile Launcher - Chimera

Elites

(10 man) Stormtrooper Squad - x2 Plasma guns

Guardsmen ( fething ) Marbo

Fast Attack

Vendetta Gunship

Scout Sentinals(2) - lascannon

Heavy support

Leman Russ battle Tank -
Lascannon , Plasma sponsons

Leman Russ battle Tank -
Lascannon, Plasma sponsons

Manticore

Fortifacations. -
Ageis Defensive Line - Quad gun

Total 2000 points even

 Kasrkin229 wrote:

HQ - CCS - x2 Plasma guns , Plasma pistol , Melta bombs
Why meltabombs? Why only 2 plasmaguns?
Troops.

Vet squad - x2 Plasma Guns - Chimera
Vet squad - x2 Plasma Guns - Chimera
Vet Squad - x2 Plasma Guns - Chimera
Why only 2 plasma guns? You're taking what makes vets amazing and stripping them of it. Deck them out with full special weapons options.All you've done here is increase the carrier cost of the guns and lowered the squad's efficacy.

Vet Squad - Missile Launcher - Chimera
Vet Squad - Missile Launcher - Chimera
Firstly MLs? Why? What do they do that other weapons can't? They're weak at both their options and at 15pts over priced for guard. What are these two squads roles? Seems a little lack lustre

Elites

(10 man) Stormtrooper Squad - x2 Plasma guns
I understand why you've taken them, but maybe cut 2 of them and throw 2 plasma pistols on the sergeant

Guardsmen ( fething ) Marbo
Awesome
Fast Attack

Vendetta Gunship

Scout Sentinals(2) - lascannon
Any chance of finding the points for a second Vendetta? It's going to have a great big target on it, and the sentinals are paper thin which gives something for bolters to glance to death.
Heavy support

Leman Russ battle Tank -
Lascannon , Plasma sponsons
Horrible waste of points. You can't even fire the sponsons if you fire the main gun, and snap fire the lascannon
Leman Russ battle Tank -
Lascannon, Plasma sponsons
These would be better as artillery to fit in the with AV:12 saturation or as an executioner or demolisher and a vanilla russ with no upgrades.
Manticore
Amazing for necrons and pretty good for sniping sergeants/SW troopers out of marines.

Fortifacations. -
Ageis Defensive Line - Quad gun

Total 2000 points even

Well there's my take. It looks like you're going in the right direction, but there's a lot of weird choices. Personally I'd ditch the storm troopers. They're going to land, punch something then die. It's a lot of points to sink into that. You're also lacking anti-AV:13+. The manticore won't cut it for that, nor will the Vendetta alone. Maybe swap the stormies for melta suicide so you have a chance to pop a tank.

Second on the meltabombs and lack of plasma guns. Drop the pistol and melta bombs and you just bought another plasma for the CCS. Ideally, you get 4 plasma guns and maybe even a pistol as well so you get 9 plasma shots out of the hatch at 12".

Like Griddle said, any Russ with an ordnance weapon should be bare bones.

I pretty much agree with Griddlelol. I'm a BA player, but I know Imperial weaponry well.

The Leman Russ tanks' primary weapon is super devastating to meqs without the fancy upgrades. I don't know what all can go on the Leman Russ, but there has to be cheaper options that this. Can you get heavy bolter sponsons for some generic dakka?

The IG is cheap enough that you can risk some guys in the Vendetta. I've been visited by veteran squads with meltas in a Vendetta and they are not fun.

If you can, somehow, a heavy weapon team of lascannon and a heavy weapon team of autocannon are very nice. They can be ordered with "bring it down" and have that nice 48" range. Even better, you can put them behind the Aegis line.

Also, I thought Leman Russ had lumbering behemoth, so it could fire all weapons? Or is the ordnance weapon exception to this?

Martel732 wrote:

Also, I thought Leman Russ had lumbering behemoth, so it could fire all weapons? Or is the ordnance weapon exception to this?

They lost it. Just heavy now. Really hurts the main russ, but it's so cheap that it's not too much of a big deal.

I Agree with everything you gents have said - but let me throw in a little explination to see if my choices make a little bit more sense and i will poke at some issues you guys brought up




THe Leman Russ' as long as GW has existed the codex Overides the BRB i looked threw the Imperial Guard FAQ and it says nothing about Leman Russ's losing their lumberin Behemoth Specail Rule ( please correct me if i missed it ) so yes they are heavy Vehicles but they still have their special rule -- This is how guys at my store play so as a result even if it might be wrong i enjoy spitting Battle Cannon shots in with plasma with the Snap shotting Lascannon -


Veteran Plasma Issue - Yes i understand the splooge about wasting the abliity of a Vet squad in not taking 3 special weapons , but given that most of the Space Marines Armies run asssualty based list , i find it safer to not " Put all my eggs in one basket " because if i get assualted im going to die , so ill try and Free room up point wise if i can find a Resonable expenditure -


Veteran Missile Launcher Issue - These guys i know your thinking WTF but the shooty Space Marine armies do a Mech list which has generally crappy Space marine APC's ( no land Raiders normally thank god ) , but now that this point was brought up would it be better to take auto cannons in their stead ?


Extra Vendetta issue -- Yeah i wouldn't run the scout sentinals if i had a nother one of these , working on it and its on my christmas list -- i use these to pop thunderfire cannons as they walk on from outflank


CCS- now that i think of it ill drop the plasma pistol and melta bombs and grab another plasma gun - this unit is manneing the quad gun ...


Stormtroopers - Im not the fan of the Melta suicide ( i know its effective ) but i feel its a waste , and prefer my even numbers - 10 with 2 plasma is a night mare in the enimies side


As for Artillary , the manticore and a Medusa are the only pieces i have so i only field one of them , mostly the Manticore for popping multiple space marine Rhinos


I really apprecaite the response , and thank you for having resonable arguments rather then what i see most of the time -- anything i missed ?

 Kasrkin229 wrote:

THe Leman Russ' as long as GW has existed the codex Overides the BRB i looked threw the Imperial Guard FAQ and it says nothing about Leman Russ's losing their Lumbering Behemoth Special Rule

Here it is, taken from the FAQ:

"Page 48 – Leman Russ Battle Tank, Lumbering Behemoth.
Replace this entry with the following: “A Leman Russ follows
the rules for Heavy Vehicles on page 83 of the Warhammer
40,000 rulebook.”

Veteran Plasma Issue - Yes i understand the splooge about wasting the abliity of a Vet squad in not taking 3 special weapons , but given that most of the Space Marines Armies run asssualty based list , i find it safer to not " Put all my eggs in one basket " because if i get assualted im going to die , so ill try and Free room up point wise if i can find a Resonable expenditure

You're missing the point, you actually putting more points into the squad by not adding the 3rd plasma gun. I know it seems counter intuitive...You're increasing the carrier cost. Seriously, do you take vets for BS4 lasguns? So what you're essentially doing is making those 2 plasma guns more expensive because to get the same number, you have to have more squads. Also if you take another gun, you're more likely to do more damage before you get assaulted. This means the unit is more likely to make its points cost back, again since the carrier cost is basically dead weight, it's the special weapons that make them worth their points.

On the assaulted front - you're mech! Let them get near you, you control how they move then; with the big boxes you can force or constrain assault based armies.

Veteran Missile Launcher Issue - These guys i know your thinking WTF but the shooty Space Marine armies do a Mech list which has generally crappy Space marine APC's ( no land Raiders normally thank god ) , but now that this point was brought up would it be better to take auto cannons in their stead ?

ML are over-costed. Do you need the MLs to deal with the mech? You have multi-lasers and HBs which will plough them with shots at a distance greater than your PGs can work. Also, any chance of considering a cheap platoon? This would give you a bubble wrap and you can slap ACs or LCs on them which will be more accurate than the Vets because they could receive BID (rerollable 4+ > 3+) due to not being in a transport. They also can force your opponent to assault them before getting to your devastating vets. Giving you one more round of shooting.

Alternatively, I'd throw LCs on the vets rather than MLs, they'll help you with everything. The AC just isn't that amazing at knocking out transports, and is pretty poor at everything else. The LC would at least let you 1 shot a transport and then give you some ID power, or MC killing power. Or...you could just spam more plasma or melta-vets. Transports aren't too scary I've found. Your opponent has to disembark whcih gives you a whole extra turn of shooting at them. Melta-vets would give you a nice No-AV zone.

CCS- now that i think of it ill drop the plasma pistol and melta bombs and grab another plasma gun - this unit is manneing the quad gun ...

If they're manning the quad gun the plasmas seem a little out of place. You can't split fire with the Quad gun, so those plasma guns are going to be rolling 6s or will be out of range of transports. Why not throw an AC and a standard on them. Gives you another 2 AC shots at ground and air (although these obviously hit on 6s) plus you now have the ability to re-roll moral checks when your chimeras inevitably get busted. I'd also recommend camo-cloaks. 15pts for a 3+ cover save.

Stormtroopers - Im not the fan of the Melta suicide ( i know its effective ) but i feel its a waste , and prefer my even numbers - 10 with 2 plasma is a night mare in the enimies side

Understandable, but for 105pts you can easily make it back by destroying a vehicle, also it forces your opponent to shoot at them. Can't really ignore them. Still your stormies work, although I still stand by the lose 2 troopers and grab 2 plasma pistols for the sergeant - 2 shots with longer range than a rapid fire hot shot, better ap and strength.


The medusa is great. Try to fit it in. If you come across GK you can ID those stupid terminators, similarly if you see thunder wolf cav or nob bikers. The chimerae will give it a cover save anyway, coupled with the ADL.

Edit: I forgot! Those ML vets in a chimera could be melta-vets (potentially with demolitions) in a Vendetta. They're a great way to pop tanks, score line-breaker, wipe out enemy rear objective sitters and killing MCs. Way better than a 85pt ML.

You NEED to have 3x plasmas not 2 in the Vet squads. It's silly not too. Listen to what the others are saying on this one. BS4 w 3 special weapons is THE ONLY reason one would field vets over blobbing infantry squads... Also, the Medusa is super awesome for it's pioints. 36" S10 AP2 makes it one of the hardest hitting tanks in the game. And unlike Demolisher cannons, you don't have to get within 24" to be effective. The Plasma sponsons are a waste of points. Squad up 2 bare bones Russes to make a heavy slot for your Medusa. The new ordinance rules ruined (not ruined but de-valued) the fully kitted out Leman Russ Battle tank and Demolisher variants.

Great looking List, I can see how it would be tough to handle in a game, bravo.
Things to try tho

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
So at my FLGS were having a tourniment - the list I use is so far undefeated in 6th edition - constructive criticism wanted ! Local Meta is Space Marines and Necrons


HQ - CCS - x2 Plasma guns , Plasma pistol , Melta bombs

Drop the melta Bombs off the HQ, try to fit in a Medic, if you are intent on keeping all the Plasma. Also the upgrade bonus fellows would be great. Ord, Astro, Fleet

Troops.

Vet squad - x2 Plasma Guns - Chimera
Vet squad - x2 Plasma Guns - Chimera
Vet Squad - x2 Plasma Guns - Chimera

Need to get a Third Special in, and I would seriously look at Meltaguns over plasma, just my taste in weapons is different. I know Plasma is really good with there range and with the rapid fire stuff, but I hate losing guys to a 1 as well as the option to destroy a tank when I really need to.

Vet Squad - Missile Launcher - Chimera
Vet Squad - Missile Launcher - Chimera

Looks like a good set of guys here.

You run A Lot of Chimera. Ever considered a Fortress of Redemption? With the Krack Storm upgrade and 4 Heavy Bolters you could drop a Few transports and the Agis and have a great and intimidating piece of terrain.

Elites

(10 man) Stormtrooper Squad - x2 Plasma guns

Awesome

Guardsmen ( fething ) Marbo

Awesome

Fast Attack

Vendetta Gunship

Awesome

Scout Sentinals(2) - lascannon

I personally think these things are worthless. I would toss them out and carve out 30 or 40 more points and add either Valkyrie with Missile Pods and Heavy Bolters or a Vendetta

Heavy support

Leman Russ battle Tank -
Lascannon , Plasma sponsons

Drop the Plasma Sponsons, Chamo Netting? Maybe an Exterminator Upgrade would fill your role better

Leman Russ battle Tank -
Lascannon, Plasma sponsons

Drop the Plasma Sponsons. Chamo Netting? Maybe an Exterminator Upgrade would fill your role better

Manticore

I think it is a neat tank on paper, I have deloyed them in mass in games and there fun, but not nearly as effective at killing stuff as a good old Baslick or Medusa.

Fortifacations. -
Ageis Defensive Line - Quad gun

Unless upgrading to a Fortress of Redemption, this is a Must add to any army, love agis lines.

Total 2000 points even

So general consensus I'm seeing is get extra plasmas on those vets , drop plasma sponsons on Russ's , ditch the Melta and pistol on CCS , I would love to change to those specs but I don't have the cash to change things as much as I like and proxying is frowned upon

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
So general consensus I'm seeing is get extra plasmas on those vets , drop plasma sponsons on Russ's , ditch the Melta and pistol on CCS , I would love to change to those specs but I don't have the cash to change things as much as I like and proxying is frowned upon

Hate to be a Debbie Downer...but why did you post the list if you have no ability or intention of changing it? Did you just want people to go "yay! Awesome"?

Not the intention at all , I'm looking as to what I will change eventually , just won't be an immediate thing ,

 Griddlelol wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Also, I thought Leman Russ had lumbering behemoth, so it could fire all weapons? Or is the ordnance weapon exception to this?

They lost it. Just heavy now. Really hurts the main russ, but it's so cheap that it's not too much of a big deal.

Where in the new rules does it say that you can't fire anything else if you fire the Ordnance weapon on a tank? The BRB says "if a non-vehicle model fires an Ordnance weapon, then the massive recoil from the Ordnance weapon means that the model cannot fire other weapons that phase..."

NON-VEHICLE being the key phrase. The rule for the Russ was FAQed out because it was no longer needed.

x13rads wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Also, I thought Leman Russ had lumbering behemoth, so it could fire all weapons? Or is the ordnance weapon exception to this?

They lost it. Just heavy now. Really hurts the main russ, but it's so cheap that it's not too much of a big deal.

Where in the new rules does it say that you can't fire anything else if you fire the Ordnance weapon on a tank? The BRB says "if a non-vehicle model fires an Ordnance weapon, then the massive recoil from the Ordnance weapon means that the model cannot fire other weapons that phase..."

NON-VEHICLE being the key phrase. The rule for the Russ was FAQed out because it was no longer needed.

Page 71:

"However, a vehicle that fires and Ord weapon can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn"
Blast weapons can't snap fire, therefore they can't be fired.

Maybe put a vet squad with 3 melta guns and demochage in Vendetta it has worked so good for me!