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So i've read a lot of fluff threads in this area of the boards (some very interesting discussion I have to say). One topic that I always like to think about is the actual "good vs evil" element of 40k. I think it's probably fair to say that despite representing humanity, the imperium are not necessarily the "good guys".

In my personal opinion, I think that the Eldar (craftworld) are the good guys. My reasoning for this, is that after the fall, they realised that they REALLY messed up, and now spend a lot of their time fighting Chaos. Sure they will sacrifice a billion humans to save one Eldar, but that's not necessarily "Evil", its just survivalist. I guess the smae argument could be made about the Imperium, but I feel that the Eldar are more "aware" of how dire the threat of Chaos is (given that they spawned Slannesh!).

So what's your opinion Dakka? I've listed the options for all factions (if you feel that Chaos are the good guys, then go for it, but please elaborate in a subsequent post!)

Well, obviously there are no good guys. Beyond that, you run into this weird place where you start thinking too hard about how you define good and evil.

Yeah that's a fair point. If you had to choose though, which faction would you say were the best fit for that description?

Dead guys...
Incidentally what is the benchmark for evil?
I mean, if you just kill someone that isn't as bad as torturing them before they die but it's still bad...
We're not really finding the good guys... we're finding the least bad guys...

Genocide does seem to be the Norm for 40k. Well for example I wouldn't pick Dark Eldar because they actively get pleasure from mutilation and torture. I wouldn't necessarily pick Tyranids either, because theyre more like a force of nature than after the pursuit of any real "objectives".

Then Tyranids are intrinsically better than every other faction since everything they do (They do for love) they do because of instinct... well to some extent... if the Hive Mind isn't sentient that is...

 purplefood wrote:
Then Tyranids are intrinsically better than every other faction since everything they do (They do for love)

This thread was already worth it for that one comment alone

I've said imperium just for the 'mankind for the win' kind of thing...

 liam0404 wrote:
Yeah that's a fair point. If you had to choose though, which faction would you say were the best fit for that description?

Well, I would say the Imperium of Man are the only good guys, because as a whole they are the only group interested in the continued survival of the human species.

The Imperium - Xenophobic, Conquering, intolerant, Fanatics, Genocidal - No.
Pre Heresy the Imperium was just as intolerant.

The Tau - Their Greater good not anyone elses - No

The Eldar - Capricious SOB's, Xenophobic, - No

The Dark Eldar - Their ends justify the means? depends if you have been sodomised by them or not - No

The Orks - Instinctual , bred for battle. - The cannot be considered 'good' so no to them as well.

Tyranids - Instinctual? The hive mind is just a feeder, it's their kink. - No

Chaos - They will eventually burn the galaxy out with their whims - No.

Necrons - You are all Sarah connor - No

I will go for any single human in the galaxy trying to make their way, even that isn't much of a choice.

The imperium is not good. Its law.

I agree that craftworld eldar are good.

The Tau are mostly good. They will let any other race join their caste system.

40k is various shades of (roughly 50) grey. No pure white or black. From our viewpoint Tau are the least evil.

edit: Not voting since there's no "none" option.

 Kaldor wrote:
they are the only group interested in the continued survival of the human species.

Well that wouldn't make them "good", neutral maybe but imperium are not good guys. As for who I think are the "good guys" in 40k? To be honest, no one is... Dark eldar and chaos are just evil, necrons are only around to server their dark gods (well, at least the was the case until ward ruined it, I don't know what crap he made up for them), after all the mess involving slaanesh you can't call eldar good, the imperium only care about themselves and would rather watch all other races be destroyed and as for the tau, I don't believe they are as innocent as they make out (want peace, have some of the largest firepower...a little suspicious). I think the closest to "good" might actually be orks or tyranids who only fight out of instinct; I still don't think they are "good". So there, no race is the "good guys", some just have darker intentions then others.

The Imperium or more specifically the SM chapters of Space Wolves, Salamanders and Raven guard and I think there's another chapter I'm forgetting but I can't think of it at the moment.

My reasoning behind this is that despite the SM fighting to protect humanity and all that, I find that there's to much mention of SM doing whatever they thought it took to get a mission done. Many a time would a chapter blow up a town or village simply to get rid of one xeno. Not only that but how many times have they sacrificed the Imperial Guard simply to achieve a goal. HOWEVER there are the exceptions of the three chapters I mentioned above. Time and time again there is testament to their unquestioning loyalty and bravery to preserve the life of every man and woman they are charged to protect. I think if there are any "good guys" they would come from these chapters.

In the Grim Darkness of the 41st millenium, there is only war.

^this... there is no good or bad... only the grimdark

There are no "good guys" by our standards in Warhammer 40.000.

By if we are going by good guys then that would be Imperium, Eldar and Tau.
If we are going to look just from Human perspective only Imeprium is good because all others want to enslave/kill Humans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 labmouse42 wrote:

I agree that craftworld eldar are good.

Killing billions of Humans on one planet just because Farseer had a bad dream does not make them good.

Nobody, everyone is a prick in their own way.

Good Guys = The Imperium

And what I mean by "good guys" is protagonists because that is as close as anyone comes to wearing a white hat in 40k.

I will say, the xenophobia of the Imperium is not one of the things that makes it "evil." Aliens are inimical to human life in the 40k setting. If anything, xenophobia is one of the few things the Imperium gets right.

Given what little I've discussed and read of the fluff, there are no "good guys". Of the Space Marine Chapters, Space Wolves come somewhat close, but it's all still questionable.

The chapter that seems most consistently in-tune with real-world values about humanity and compassion is actually the Salamanders.

No one faction is good. Their may be good individuals/groups within those factions, but that's about it. If you want the faction the least capable of committing deliberate acts of evil, that title would probably go to the Tyranids.

As others have said, there are no good guys. It's like medieval Europe, it's just total war, no good or evil.

I must say, while not good, some do come close:

Some of the Space Wolves (although they have a quarrel with a lott of people) Some of the Eldar who have a bigger perspective. Alathioc (anti necron world dominance) and Uthelwee (anti chaos world police). Grey Knights do whatever it takes to do the job done, although some will consider them evil. The sisters of battle also means good, although most likly you will be purged. The Tau can be nice. And some of the necron dynasties can be nice. Probably some of the other space marine chapters as well. Iperial Guard are just plain people living ordinary lives. Orks are a jolly lott.

I think there are single good guys running around the galaxy, filled with concern for their men and species and whatnot, but they're pretty insignificant overall. There's no overall good faction, but good guys in each faction if you know what I mean. Well... except for the Tyranids.

Short answer: As has been stated already, there's no clear cut 'good guy', and it's why they're always split into Order/Disorder, Imperial/Xenos, or Armies of/Enemies of the Imperium.

Long Answer:
There's no clear cut 'good' race (though we have clear cut Bad/Evil in the Dark Eldar), and the closest we get in this universe of shades of black and grey, is the Tau, who will at least try diplomacy first and won't just kill you for being different/because they can.

The 'purest' or least evil, is the Tyranids and the Orks, being the 'nids are following a biological imperitive, and while the Hivemind is sentient, it's bound by iys evolution to feed and grow, and though 'bad' viewed from the outside, is effectively a force of nature.

The Orks, in the same vein are simply a result of their programming, created to fight by an ancient race, this is what they do.

The rest of the races are very much varying shades of grey, with numerous aspects of good and bad in each.

 Yonan wrote:
40k is various shades of (roughly 50) grey. No pure white or black. From our viewpoint Tau are the least evil.

edit: Not voting since there's no "none" option.

amazing...

I agree there are no real good guys. I think that the Ultramarine realm of Ultramar is probably the nicest place to live though. From what I remember from Codex:Ultramarines (2nd edition ftw!) it was pretty well run and civil.

I chose Craftworld Eldar based solely on the premise that they are really the only faction that is ever genuinely concerned with the continued survival of the galaxy as a whole. Sure they may have to kill a few million people every now and then to do it but what's 1 world to ensure the survival of thousands more?

But on the other hand, how "good" can a civilization be whips primary deity is a god of war know as the Bloody Handed God?

As a whole, no one. Everyones a merciless c@nt, and thats why I 40K.
Course every race thinks their the good guys who do it for their god/emperor/survival or just because their hungry/fell like it.