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Me and a couple buddies were looking into doing a kill team campaign (fluffy, probably around the 4th edition kill team but with 6th rules) set in space. Haven't thought of setting yet but if you guys wan't I could update you with that. Any way's here are some rules I was thinking of. Input more than appreciated. All types of units are allowed as long as they conform to the following rules. Point limit is 250.

Vacuum: All models have -1 to armor saves. This represents the dangers of even the smallest holes in armor. All models must have helmets and can not have any skin showing.

Recoil: When a heavy weapon is fired (really this is your guy's call what is a heavy weapon) it must be fired while braced (not in the void). After the owner has finished firing roll a d6. On a 1 the model is sent spinning backwards d6"

No gravity: All units count as jump infantry. They have basic thruster packs or whatever fits the army. We assume that generals wanted to give their squads some chance of survival. Units that already were jump infantry have double movement with their substantially more powerful jump packs.

Vehicles: No tracked vehicles, motor bikes, wheeled vehicles or anything else that does not make sense. Walkers are fine, as well as jet bikes, skimmers and flyers.

So, is this just floating in space or on a ship? We too are going to start some boarding type kill team games for our campaign.

have like you have to nock out void sheilds and then board the ship and get to the brige cargo bay and medical bay

Actually, in the 5th edition rulebook they have some rules for fighting in the void of space. They were similar to yours, but I'll post them anyways:

Zero Gravity: Infantry models may choose to move over terrain as if they were jump infantry (although their movement is still limited to 6"). Additionally, any model attempting to run rolls an additional D6 and discards the lowest, but if a double is each model in the unit suffers a dangerous terrain test, representing them uncontrollably slamming into some obstacle.

Vacuum: Whenever a model suffers an unsaved wound, it receives D3 wounds instead of 1. Additionally, to represent the risk of a catastrophic suit failure, all attacks benefit from the rending USR. If an attack already had rending, it rends on a roll 1 less than normally required.

In terms of area, I was thinking that we would actually make some 3d space terrain, various peices. When i say 3d i mean like made out of metal, maybe covered with plaster bandages to make it look like, say, asteroid. All models would have rare earth magnets on their feet. I was also thinking that all armor saves would be at -2, although a 6 would always save. This would mean that you would have to try and stay out of line of site. In terms of types of terrain, I was thinking asteroids, space stations and maybe space hulks.

A 3d terrain board would be AWESOME! I can just imagine hiding in craters and on the other side of the asteroid.

Soss wrote:
A 3d terrain board would be AWESOME! I can just imagine hiding in craters and on the other side of the asteroid.

Ya I don't think it would be to hard to do. Basically just find out what is a really magnetic metal, buy a couple hollow balls and box's and have at it with plaster bandages! If any one has suggestions for terrain? But back to the topic of rules. Any more suggestions for rules? After I get a couple more I will compile a complete list.

Have rending instead of -2 to saves. Thats far too punishing on models with good saves that they paid good points for.

Your armor doesn't become less effective in space, its just easier to blow a hole in it. Thus rending is a superior representation of that.

If you have read "They Shall Know no Fear" I think that scene in the book where they where fighting outside th eship could work for this also. You could even make a "side" of a ship that is close to the asteroid that units could jump from or to in order to give 2 different fighting planes. You could even have an objective of one player trying to set charges to blow up the ship.

For true zero-g space fighting, I'd make it so you could jump in a certain direction and float. They continue along a certain direction until they make it to their destination, but it's assumed to happen in one movement phase.

You decide the direction, and measure the distance. Suffer a dangerous terrain check with it getting worse for every 12" you move (e.g. 0-12" fail on a 1, 13-24" fail on a 2, 25-36" fail on 3) If you have a jump pack than you are assumed to make a controlled landing and can turn once while floating. This makes it so you can re-roll failed dangerous terrain rolls.

Kinda reminds me of enders game haha.

Hmmm, I would give every unit a 24" zero-g jump move. They pick a spot within 24" and scatter as if deep striking on that point. If they land on difficult terrain, its a dangerous terrain test. If they land on impassable, the models effected take a wound on a 4+ with no armor saves allowed. Survivors are moved the minimum distance needed to not be in impassable terrain anymore.

And if this move is made the unit may not assault after doing it.

All types of units are allowed as long as they conform to the following rules. Point limit is 250.

Vacuum: All models have rending

Recoil: When a heavy weapon is fired (really this is your guy's call what is a heavy weapon) it must be fired while braced (not in the void). After the owner has finished firing roll a d6. On a 1 the model is sent spinning backwards d6"

No gravity: All units count as jump infantry. They have basic thruster packs or whatever fits the army. We assume that generals wanted to give their squads some chance of survival. Units that already were jump infantry have double movement with their substantially more powerful jump packs. We assume that dreadnoughts and other walkers either are equiped with space equipment or have legs strong enough to make leaps.

Vehicles: No tracked vehicles, motor bikes, wheeled vehicles or anything else that does not make sense. Walkers are fine, as well as jet bikes, skimmers and flyers.

Leaping: Units can choose, instead of running, to leap. This is a jump assisted by boosters or jump packs. Leaping units can make a 12" jump in any direction. Roll scatter dice for where you want to land and subtract initiative. Draw a straight line between where the scatter dice ended up and the original model. Any obstructions stop the model short. Make a dangerous terrain roll.


You can make whatever fluff you want but for terrain you should either have magnetic terrain so your units can use LOS better or something sticky for their base. For any more reference on space combat see



BTW great game

space mareins should not have the rending usr aganst them as they can survive in the vacume of space (for a while)

Yes, but abstractions must be made to make the game playable. Otherwise it would be totally unfair against non-space marines.

Have you checked out the Badab Campaign?

There are fully realised rules for fighting in the void of space as well as on the skin of a ship and inside the "vaults" of large starships.

Pretty cool stuff, and they also reccomend using the rending rule for weapons that have a str of 5 or more.

Just some thoughts

wargey wrote:
space mareins should not have the rending usr aganst them as they can survive in the vacume of space (for a while)

No they can't. That is impossible. They may be super human but that does not exempt them from straight up physics. Do you have any evidence supporting this? If so then I will fully accept what you are saying. Also for all you nid players out there who are at this moment crying gently to themselves and feeling left out, this could be a good opportunity for you to model a mutation capable of space. Hardened armor, small bio jets?

 andtheyshallknownofear wrote:

wargey wrote:
space mareins should not have the rending usr aganst them as they can survive in the vacume of space (for a while)

No they can't. That is impossible. They may be super human but that does not exempt them from straight up physics. Do you have any evidence supporting this? If so then I will fully accept what you are saying. Also for all you nid players out there who are at this moment crying gently to themselves and feeling left out, this could be a good opportunity for you to model a mutation capable of space. Hardened armor, small bio jets?

He is correct actually. And in fact the normal human body is perfectly capable of surviving in a vaccum for some time. Its lacking air to breath that is the problem, and Marines can survive for a fair amount of time without breathing thanks to their biology.

Its a complete myth that your blood boils and your body explodes. It will eventually start expanding but when a battle is going on its the least of your concerns.

A human with an oxygen supply would be fine in space for a limited time. The primary purpose of a space suit is to keep you warm/cool and protect you from all that nasty radiation thats blowing around out there. Its not keeping your body from exploding.

 andtheyshallknownofear wrote:

Vacuum: All models have -1 to armor saves. This represents the dangers of even the smallest holes in armor. All models must have helmets and can not have any skin showing.

Well orks are screwed.

On earth, i'm not sure what the exact pressure is at all times, but lets say its 8 kilograms. That means that your body is adjusted to be able to compensate for 8 kilograms. That means that in the vacuum of space your eyes would probably explode, not unlike a bottom feeding fish, and you would die. Now as you can tell by my aproximations I have not done any research (busy with chemistry homework) but that is what makes sense to me. And even without the literal popping (probably considerably less dramatically than expected, maybe all the teammates could tell of their comrades demise would be a slight trail of red mist). Even with a space marines super human conditioning how would it be possible for the human body to survive without any pressure. And even if you are right, which is very possible, if not likely, even a space marine could not survive the previously mentioned combination of radiation, freezing and burning, all simultaneously. On a completely un-related note any one have any more suggestions for rules we haven't covered? Also whether or not space marines could survive as you say, they aren't exempt from the rending rule. It would just be too op. Although I am now interested if you are right or not.

From what I've been told on the matter, the pressure of space would not be fatal. The surface pressure of earth is 1atm. The pressure out in space is ~0atm. The pressure at ~33' of seawater (~11m) is about 2atm. So, the strain on your body at 33' of water is about the same as the strain on your body in space, with a 1atm difference from surface pressure, though in opposite directions. Since we can survive 33' under the water with no fatal complications (mild discomfort and ear pain, I assume?) the same can be argued of space. It's the lack of oxygen, temperature, and radiation that would make your jaunt through space lethal.

-Edit
Seems that 0atm is probably a bit worse on our body than 2atm, but still not going to pop you like a grape. It will, however, have nasty effects on your circulation, and combined with the fact that there's no oxygen to breathe, rapidly leads to critical oxygen deficiencies. I just googled and found this interesting (but unreferenced) article:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=survival-in-space-unprotected-possible

 blood lance wrote:

 andtheyshallknownofear wrote:

Vacuum: All models have -1 to armor saves. This represents the dangers of even the smallest holes in armor. All models must have helmets and can not have any skin showing.

Well orks are screwed.

Nids with helmets and space suits would be hilarious though!

Orksies no like diz idea.

We need da wheelz to do da killin'!

What that article is saying is if you are a normal human being you will be unconscious after 15 seconds (incapacitated). That is for everyone who is not a superhuman. If, per chance you are a superhuman, then you will be killed/knocked out/incapacitated by solar winds/-273 celcius/ solar rays. Moral of the story is, all weapons have rending! Next please!

At GD UK there was a battle set on a spaceship, with magnets in the models bases, and the ship was simply turned around on an axle

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the BRB sample battle that happens on a void defense station - demons versus grey knights if I remember correctly.
Mind, they made it so if a blast pushed you in the void you were lost, but they did follow the route of 'everyone has rending' to represent smallish holes in armors exposing an otherwise minor wound to the vaccum and cold of space. Cue fountain of blood. So I thumb up that simple and effective idea,

About marines surviving a while despite vacuum, I can quote two books from the Black Library : One of the horus heresy ones (Flight of the Eisenstein I think) had one of the heroes shot out on the surface of the moon to fight a human-turning-daemon, (he hoped to vacuum it dead, no luck) admiteddly he had a lot of trouble functioning when his power armor was holed, and had to end the fight quickly. In 'Eye of terror' there is a flashback to a battle in space between Dark Angels and World Eaters, said World Eaters made a -show- of taking off their helmets to holler their rage soundlessly as they charged. (Those guys were nuts.)

Still, I back up keeping the rending rule to everyone to keep things fair. Else we'll have arguments about Daemons, about orks having algae in their biology to handle the CO2 conversion, tyranid being better at biological alteration than humans, you name it... KISS rule, really.
And... krazy Idea about orks: They do make crude spacesuits, quite a hassle to model on all ladz. But how bout going the power field route? They are known for shutting in atmosphere with specialized power fields rather than only trusting their rusty, patched ship hulls. So one krazy idea would be orks staying in packs and staying close to mekboys or vehicles equipped with Kustom Force Fields meant to keep air in a big bubble. Of course it'd allow bullets and lasers to pass through otherwise the ladz couldn't shoot dakka. Cue the hilarity of a deffkopta in space inside a well-shaken atmo-bubble. And angry stormboyz trying to keep up.

Yep. I agree with giving them Rending not -2 to armor saves.

That's making Power Armor the same as Flak Armor and Terminator Armor the same as Carapace.

Rending represents a lucky shot hitting an oxygen supply or something like that

 andtheyshallknownofear wrote:
What that article is saying is if you are a normal human being you will be unconscious after 15 seconds (incapacitated). That is for everyone who is not a superhuman. If, per chance you are a superhuman, then you will be killed/knocked out/incapacitated by solar winds/-273 celcius/ solar rays. Moral of the story is, all weapons have rending! Next please!

Remember, thats if you have no oxygen supply. It has little to do with the lack of pressure.

So a helmet is all you would need from a technical point of view.

Orks won't need helmets as they are tough enough to survive in space and don't need to breath for short periods of time(couple hours perhaps)

Tyranids would be the same way. The hive mind would simply create strains of bugs that carried their own internal oxygen supply.

 andtheyshallknownofear wrote:

wargey wrote:
space mareins should not have the rending usr aganst them as they can survive in the vacume of space (for a while)

No they can't. That is impossible. They may be super human but that does not exempt them from straight up physics. Do you have any evidence supporting this? If so then I will fully accept what you are saying. Also for all you nid players out there who are at this moment crying gently to themselves and feeling left out, this could be a good opportunity for you to model a mutation capable of space. Hardened armor, small bio jets?

it is one of the organ i think the multi lung it is in codex sm

You guys are saying to put in rending. If you look back you may have noticed, not only my full agreement, but also the updated rules. On the note of nids, and any other race that does not have helmets, I said it was suggested. Obviously if your playing a home brew rule set then you can fiddle with it. I am not going to hunt you down and break your knees in because you didn't put a helmet on that one ork. Maybe space marines could survive in space. But they are still prone to rending, no matter how you can manage to have it make sense. It is stupid if some people ar affected by rending and other's aren't. Finally should there be any buff for rending weapons? Suggestions?

If you guys are going to comment then please read what has been already stated.

So, assuming rending all over, should we get already-rending units another bonus... Honestly I can see this going both way.

-On one hand you can say that rending attacks are better at piercing armor and causing nasty wounds, but that you do need to hit the slightly more vulnerable spots in the armor to get the effect. So it wouldn't make it much worse to be in a vacuum. (Also, KISS rule is putting rending everywhere, and rending don't stack)
-On the other hand you could say that the rending could make dangerous openings in spacesuits easier than other weapons.

Otherwise, I liked the idea of making wild long-range moves, going a bit out of control, with impact/dangerous tests being used for hard stops. Smooth idea, that.

Another idea you could maybe play with: Loss of control rolls from time to time to keep control of zero-g movement (say when you fire heavy weapons or get hit by gunfire) Those could be rolled with leadership, if we assume that more disciplined troops will have an easier time keeping control of their zero-G movement. And a failure pushes the foe back some distance, maybe forces them to snap shot next turn as they're getting back in control of their thrusters.