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As stated above i want to create a semi-competitive assualt list for Black Templars using their rage special rule ( from AACNO)

HQ
Emperors champ- AACNO
Master of Sanctity - AA
Command Squad- 10x Initiate CCW 1 Standard bearer upgraded to chapter bearer, Apothicary with Infiltrate

Troop
9x Initiate CCW in a rhino- dozerblade
10x initiate ccw in a rhino - dozerblade

Fast attack
10x Assault squad - 2x flamers 8x Storm Shields
10x Assault squad- 2x flamers 8x Storm Shields


all comes in at 1449.

looking to keep it assault based and not looking to try to make it shooty by any means, Idea is to make it so the command squad gets into combat, even if charged it gets it's rage and thus keeps all it's attacks. I am newer to this game as well, so feed back is wanted. Thanks for your time.

edit: changed the list slightly from 3 Land speeders to a second rhino full of initiates.

1) you require two troop choices.
2) BT assault squads seem overpriced IMO.
3) don't dump all your points into your HQ; we have only one troops choice for a reason.

I'd suggest having 3 to 4 squads of 10 initiates with 5 or so neophytes.

 Big Mek Grodclog Mekgrim wrote:
1) you require two troop choices.
2) BT assault squads seem overpriced IMO.
3) don't dump all your points into your HQ; we have only one troops choice for a reason.

I'd suggest having 3 to 4 squads of 10 initiates with 5 or so neophytes.

so basically your saying go for the black tide i think its called?

Yeah. I don't find command squads helpful until About 2k, then you have points to throw around. Another suggestion is to take a marshal instead of a MoS, so you can use his leadership for your morale, pinning, and leadership checks. The neophytes in the squads will give you fodder to make the tests and consolidate forward.

 Big Mek Grodclog Mekgrim wrote:
Yeah. I don't find command squads helpful until About 2k, then you have points to throw around. Another suggestion is to take a marshal instead of a MoS, so you can use his leadership for your morale, pinning, and leadership checks. The neophytes in the squads will give you fodder to make the tests and consolidate forward.

i sees.
I had a list where i took a martial or Helbrecht. I like the idea of re-rolling to hit, just ran out of point to put one in.
Is the black tide a competitive list set or no?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, no others wanna comment about said list?

Consider assault terminators to accompany the master of sanctity. Get ten termies, half with TH/SS and rest with lightning claws. Give the chaplain crusader seals and laugh as a few termies die, while your termies consolidate forward and assault on the first or the latest, second turn I faced this yesterday and the terminator squad molested half my army. Don't forget furious charge fron the termies!

masquerade81 wrote:
Consider assault terminators to accompany the master of sanctity. Get ten termies, half with TH/SS and rest with lightning claws. Give the chaplain crusader seals and laugh as a few termies die, while your termies consolidate forward and assault on the first or the latest, second turn I faced this yesterday and the terminator squad molested half my army. Don't forget furious charge fron the termies!

I have been running 2 5 man squads ( without the MoS) and they seem to do well once they are in. Most of the time I am playing other marines and they are shot out before they can make it to combat. Any good ways to get them there for cheap ( not using the LRC) because i find that this is too big of a sink whole in points.

Rather than walking and running them across the board (which could in theory be as little as 7" per turn) you could just deep strike them. The issue here is that they might not arrive the turn you want them, but that's the risk you run with the deep strike rule.

Literally the only other way to get them there without being shot to pieces is a LRC dedicated transport.

In my fluffy 2k close combat lists, I exclusively run 2x 9-man assualt Termie squads inside LRC's, both with a Chaplain in Termie armour attached. I then just spam the board with large Initiate squads of bolt pistol/ccw's, throwing in a few power fists and melta guns for good measure. You could just tone this down as per your points limit.

How the **** do you fit 10 bulky models inside a LRC that has only 15 model passenger size?

Yes. Because you can only take 8 models in terminator armour aboard the LRC. this is also why I dont wanna use the LRC to haul around expensive enough terminators to combat. Maybe in higher point games, but not in the points where I play.

Lunacara wrote:
As stated above i want to create a semi-competitive assualt list for Black Templars using their rage special rule ( from AACNO)

HQ
Emperors champ- AACNO
Master of Sanctity - AA
Command Squad- 10x Initiate CCW 1 Standard bearer upgraded to chapter bearer, Apothicary with Infiltrate

Troop
9x Initiate CCW in a rhino- dozerblade
10x initiate ccw in a rhino - dozerblade

Fast attack
10x Assault squad - 2x flamers 8x Storm Shields
10x Assault squad- 2x flamers 8x Storm Shields


all comes in at 1449.

looking to keep it assault based and not looking to try to make it shooty by any means, Idea is to make it so the command squad gets into combat, even if charged it gets it's rage and thus keeps all it's attacks. I am newer to this game as well, so feed back is wanted. Thanks for your time.

edit: changed the list slightly from 3 Land speeders to a second rhino full of initiates.

If you want semi-competitive then this list is not going to work. You will need SOME shooting presence to take on all-comers.

Command Squad is a waste at this point value. Get the EC and MoS in a full 20 Ini/20 Neo or half 10/10 Black Tide. 3 Servitors for extra bullet sponges and RZ inches. Footslog em, as Rhinos are near pointless in 6th. They will rocket across the board.

If you insist on CC, run a second tide for your second troop choice, depending on points. If youve got the points, get a Techmarine w/ Servo in there to Power Fist noobs to death and Flamer assault charges. Personally I say the second troop choice should be shooty, and get a Techmarine into the Black Tide. Thats 26 guys rerolling charge misses (cept the Neos), re-rolling wounds with the Chappy, and that Techmarine is putting out a ridiculous amount of electric knuckle death into the foe's cranium.

Those Assault Marines could be decent, but Termis are a better choice. You insist on CC though, so thats going to be rough getting TH/SS and LC Termis across the board alive. A much better choice for a competitive all-comers list is dump the Assault Marines and Rhinos, take two Typhoon Speeders and 2x Cyclone Termis (who can Teleport and shoot or an Aegis Line for them in case of fliers). This is the best way to maximize your coverage of any threat thrown at you. And in 6th, BT needs to have all their bases covered or youre getting swept.

@ d3n01iti0n
So basically go with a black tide army is what i am getting here. full blobs and then termies. Is there a reason the 10 man assualt squads are worse then even say, 5 regular termies with 2x assault cannons? I know from experience that the TH SS guys usually become target number one in the list, but i figured jump pack guys moving 12 per turn and RZ a few inches on top of that would be deadly to get into combat.

Assault squads for us appear good, but in application, they aren't durable enough for being as many points as they are, and throwing more points into them just makes it worse. Terminators of any variety in our book work very well, especially a group of five with two cyclone missile launchers, so incorporating a squad of either flavor is a good idea in an assault army. The leadership buff given by a marshal is a necessity when you're probably going to be take a leadership on every squad once a turn, or you could run Grimaldus, however over priced he is, to give you a fearless bubble to keep your units in.

 Doctor Khorne wrote:
Assault squads for us appear good, but in application, they aren't durable enough for being as many points as they are, and throwing more points into them just makes it worse. Terminators of any variety in our book work very well, especially a group of five with two cyclone missile launchers, so incorporating a squad of either flavor is a good idea in an assault army. The leadership buff given by a marshal is a necessity when you're probably going to be take a leadership on every squad once a turn, or you could run Grimaldus, however over priced he is, to give you a fearless bubble to keep your units in.

ok that makes sense.
Should i be running 2 5 man squads with CML's and I like to use the MoS as he is resonably priced and give him AA to give him a 2+ save overall. As for the martial, should i go Helbrekt or just do a martial and kit him out from there?

I like the MoS for being the shepherd of a blob, should you run one. Helbrecht is a monster against most things except 2+ armour, so if you run a fist with him, or there isn't much of that in your meta, he's really good. The marshal is more customizable in this regard, but he won't reach the pure power Helbrecht has. I will say I'm a little biased by my preference for faster characters. With terminators, it's really up to you. Replacing the assault sqauds in your original list with the two terminator groups is probably a safe bet, if that's what you're wanting to run. Our typhoon and multi-melta/heavy flamer land speeders are also fairly cheaply and will at the very least draw some fire off footsloggers for a turn, so they are worth considering as well.

Lunacara wrote:
@ d3n01iti0n
So basically go with a black tide army is what i am getting here. full blobs and then termies. Is there a reason the 10 man assualt squads are worse then even say, 5 regular termies with 2x assault cannons? I know from experience that the TH SS guys usually become target number one in the list, but i figured jump pack guys moving 12 per turn and RZ a few inches on top of that would be deadly to get into combat.

does RZ even work with jump infantry? I think not, but could be mistaken. Don't have the templar book with me.

For your HQ, dont use our 2 named HQ choices. If you will be running 2 HQ's, then use 1 Marshal for 10 LD across the board. Then the other a MOS can really go anywhere, Termies or black tide blob.

Also if you use a tech marine... I typically run a SS on him. for 15 points, you have a terminator basically. He has a flamer, plasma pistol, bolter shooting attack, and a power axe, and 2 power fist, 2W, 2+, 3++ save. Personally I love our techmarines, I run mine with dual power axe. His servo harness has 2 weapons for shooting, thats good enough for me!

J99Pwrangler wrote:
For your HQ, dont use our 2 named HQ choices. If you will be running 2 HQ's, then use 1 Maeshal for 10 LD across the board. Then the other a MOS can really go anywhere, Termies or black tide blob.

Also if you use a tech marine... I typically run a SS on him. for 15 points, you have a terminator basically. He has a flamer, plasma pistol, bolter shooting attack, and a power axe, and 2 power fist, 2W, 2+, 3++ save. Personally I love our techmarines, I run mine with dual power axe. His servo harness has 2 weapons for shooting, thats good enough for me!

Dual Power Axe legal on the Techy?

Grimaldus is decent in some situations. I just picked him up but havent used him. Dont ever bother with Helbrecht outside of huge games. A kitted-out Marshall is a monster however.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

J99Pwrangler wrote:
For your HQ, dont use our 2 named HQ choices. If you will be running 2 HQ's, then use 1 Maeshal for 10 LD across the board. Then the other a MOS can really go anywhere, Termies or black tide blob.

Also if you use a tech marine... I typically run a SS on him. for 15 points, you have a terminator basically. He has a flamer, plasma pistol, bolter shooting attack, and a power axe, and 2 power fist, 2W, 2+, 3++ save. Personally I love our techmarines, I run mine with dual power axe. His servo harness has 2 weapons for shooting, thats good enough for me!

Dual Power Axe legal on the Techy?

Grimaldus is decent in some situations. I just picked him up but havent used him. Dont ever bother with Helbrecht outside of huge games. A kitted-out Marshall is a monster however.

Yeah, dual power axes should work. A Techmarine can chose 100 points from the BT armory. So i drop his bolter, and let him dual weild a power axe. Unless I missed something where he cannot do that.

RZ works for all units that are not vehicles ( dreadnought exempted) i believe so they can move very fast ( 12'' movement plus a run plus a RZ if all goes well)

Is the idea for termies because they have a 2+ save vs. the 3+ of a assault squad or because your termies can take 2 heavy weapons in a 5 man squad?

Black Tide is not competitive anymore.

Its a horde army thats only true merit is how resilient it is to small arms fire.

"But Black Templars get RZ!"

Oh, and this thing.

Which is also a curse, as jump pack infantry, jetbikes, and fast units in general can force you to go backwards and kite these mobs forever. And they can only get Fearless if they have a Chaplain. So with just plain old poor luck a stray Guardsman kills one Crusader with a Lasgun, and you fail your morale check. Your entire mob falls back 2D6. Kind of a bummer, isn't it?

You need 3 HQ's to make this list function; the Marshall, the Chaplain and the EC (because you're forced to take him). Roughly a fifth of your points is going to be taken up by these guys, and thats if they are equipped lightly.

You're then paying more or just less than Land Raider region points for a mediocre mob that can't take on anything harder than a Tactical Squad, and even in the best scenario will only kill half of said Tactical Squad with AACNMTO. Even with the best vow, Crusaders aren't anything to write home about.

Thus, the mob can't expect rollover anything in a turn (Guard get Commisars, Nids get synapse, Orks get mob rule, so even weak units like them are staying put), at which point they then lose their momentum in the following turn, which is breaking the golden rule of running a horde army. Crusaders are soldiers using WW1 tactics in a WW2 environment- you can't expect to fight a stalemate and fight a war of attrition, you have to expect to win, move on, and not lose momentum. This is why Orks are effective- a mob of Boys crushes anything that gets in its way, and is almost never slowed for a turn after a charge of its own.



What does this list suffer great weaknesses against?

Pieplates.
Plasma guns.
Necrons, in mobs or mechanized. They're tougher, they make a mockery of your expensive HQ choices with a 15 pt upgrade and they get a lot of firepower.
Mechanized armies.
Termiewing armies- if you have to face one of these, you've got no chance in hell, because they'll tear the heart of your mobs before you even strike, and even if you do get to strike you'll kill 1-2 Terminators, and then they'll finish you off.
Fast armies. You'll never catch up, and you'll die in droves in the process.
Effective gunline armies, e.g Imperial Guard and Tau are going to blow you off the board.
Monstrous creatures.

A.k.a, more than half of the lists you meet.

What are you good against?

Newbie Space Marine players that don't buy transports for Space Marines.
Hordes, if you're lucky enough to come up against one of equal size model wise once in a bluemoon. And then theres an all plethora of problems such as monstrous creatures from Nids, Burna boys in Battlewagons from Orks, autocannon teams, etc.

I can't think of anything else.



"Sure, but you can also run mechanized close combat Templars. "

Oh, don't make me laugh.

Why on terra would you play an almost straight downgrade (at least in terms of core) of a Blood Angels list?

-fast transports - at the same price
-far more weapons options
-red thirst
-no dumb rule pulling you off of objectives

Oh, right, you get your "vows". That one thing BT players cling to like they are the best thing since sliced bread.


Hell, Grey Hunters from C:SW do everything Crusaders can do, get the best of both ranged and CC worlds, get pairs of special weapons, frag and krak grenades and at the same time are cheaper.

Codex Black Templars is a mess. Its not worth playing until it receives a decent FAQ update or a Codex/WD abuse of some credit. Its depressing, but evident.

Two things to bear in mind with your critescism of this argument:
1)This focuses on Crusaders, and nothing else, as they are the core components of both list archetypes.
2) Yes, I know about your goddamn tank hunter Terminators, and how they're going to win the game for you like the fairy god mother let Cinderella live happily every after.

I rest my case. Good night.

Thank you for your criticism. I chose to play BT on their fluff and such. I was wondering why I could not win a game at all ( aside from being a newer player). I have been trying forever to find a way that BT can still be an assault army ( which is what I imagine that they would do) and be able to be even semi-competitive. I am looking at the new DA codex and am seeing way cooler things that i thought the BT would have had and will play those next instead. As well most of my models are DA converts anyways ( just painted to black white and red ( hint of gold)). The above post is exactly what i was hoping that someone would do eventually and spell out exactly why it doesnt work. once again thank you for actually posting the reasons on why it would not work, and not just simply saying " doesnt work!".

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Black Tide is not competitive anymore.

Its a horde army thats only true merit is how resilient it is to small arms fire.

"But Black Templars get RZ!"

Oh, and this thing.

Which is also a curse, as jump pack infantry, jetbikes, and fast units in general can force you to go backwards and kite these mobs forever. And they can only get Fearless if they have a Chaplain. So with just plain old poor luck a stray Guardsman kills one Crusader with a Lasgun, and you fail your morale check. Your entire mob falls back 2D6. Kind of a bummer, isn't it?

You need 3 HQ's to make this list function; the Marshall, the Chaplain and the EC (because you're forced to take him). Roughly a fifth of your points is going to be taken up by these guys, and thats if they are equipped lightly.

You're then paying more or just less than Land Raider region points for a mediocre mob that can't take on anything harder than a Tactical Squad, and even in the best scenario will only kill half of said Tactical Squad with AACNMTO. Even with the best vow, Crusaders aren't anything to write home about.

Thus, the mob can't expect rollover anything in a turn (Guard get Commisars, Nids get synapse, Orks get mob rule, so even weak units like them are staying put), at which point they then lose their momentum in the following turn, which is breaking the golden rule of running a horde army. Crusaders are soldiers using WW1 tactics in a WW2 environment- you can't expect to fight a stalemate and fight a war of attrition, you have to expect to win, move on, and not lose momentum. This is why Orks are effective- a mob of Boys crushes anything that gets in its way, and is almost never slowed for a turn after a charge of its own.



What does this list suffer great weaknesses against?

Pieplates.
Plasma guns.
Necrons, in mobs or mechanized. They're tougher, they make a mockery of your expensive HQ choices with a 15 pt upgrade and they get a lot of firepower.
Mechanized armies.
Termiewing armies- if you have to face one of these, you've got no chance in hell, because they'll tear the heart of your mobs before you even strike, and even if you do get to strike you'll kill 1-2 Terminators, and then they'll finish you off.
Fast armies. You'll never catch up, and you'll die in droves in the process.
Effective gunline armies, e.g Imperial Guard and Tau are going to blow you off the board.
Monstrous creatures.

A.k.a, more than half of the lists you meet.

What are you good against?

Newbie Space Marine players that don't buy transports for Space Marines.
Hordes, if you're lucky enough to come up against one of equal size model wise once in a bluemoon. And then theres an all plethora of problems such as monstrous creatures from Nids, Burna boys in Battlewagons from Orks, autocannon teams, etc.

I can't think of anything else.



"Sure, but you can also run mechanized close combat Templars. "

Oh, don't make me laugh.

Why on terra would you play an almost straight downgrade (at least in terms of core) of a Blood Angels list?

-fast transports - at the same price
-far more weapons options
-red thirst
-no dumb rule pulling you off of objectives

Oh, right, you get your "vows". That one thing BT players cling to like they are the best thing since sliced bread.

Spoiler:

they aren't

Hell, Grey Hunters from C:SW do everything Crusaders can do, get the best of both ranged and CC worlds, get pairs of special weapons, frag and krak grenades and at the same time are cheaper.

Codex Black Templars is a mess. Its not worth playing until it receives a decent FAQ update or a Codex/WD abuse of some credit. Its depressing, but evident.

Two things to bear in mind with your critescism of this argument:
1)This focuses on Crusaders, and nothing else, as they are the core components of both list archetypes.
2) Yes, I know about your goddamn tank hunter Terminators, and how they're going to win the game for you like the fairy god mother let Cinderella live happily every after.

I rest my case. Good night.

You dont need to post any more on Black Templar forums if you feel this way.

J99Pwrangler wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Black Tide is not competitive anymore.

Its a horde army thats only true merit is how resilient it is to small arms fire.

"But Black Templars get RZ!"

Oh, and this thing.

Which is also a curse, as jump pack infantry, jetbikes, and fast units in general can force you to go backwards and kite these mobs forever. And they can only get Fearless if they have a Chaplain. So with just plain old poor luck a stray Guardsman kills one Crusader with a Lasgun, and you fail your morale check. Your entire mob falls back 2D6. Kind of a bummer, isn't it?

You need 3 HQ's to make this list function; the Marshall, the Chaplain and the EC (because you're forced to take him). Roughly a fifth of your points is going to be taken up by these guys, and thats if they are equipped lightly.

You're then paying more or just less than Land Raider region points for a mediocre mob that can't take on anything harder than a Tactical Squad, and even in the best scenario will only kill half of said Tactical Squad with AACNMTO. Even with the best vow, Crusaders aren't anything to write home about.

Thus, the mob can't expect rollover anything in a turn (Guard get Commisars, Nids get synapse, Orks get mob rule, so even weak units like them are staying put), at which point they then lose their momentum in the following turn, which is breaking the golden rule of running a horde army. Crusaders are soldiers using WW1 tactics in a WW2 environment- you can't expect to fight a stalemate and fight a war of attrition, you have to expect to win, move on, and not lose momentum. This is why Orks are effective- a mob of Boys crushes anything that gets in its way, and is almost never slowed for a turn after a charge of its own.



What does this list suffer great weaknesses against?

Pieplates.
Plasma guns.
Necrons, in mobs or mechanized. They're tougher, they make a mockery of your expensive HQ choices with a 15 pt upgrade and they get a lot of firepower.
Mechanized armies.
Termiewing armies- if you have to face one of these, you've got no chance in hell, because they'll tear the heart of your mobs before you even strike, and even if you do get to strike you'll kill 1-2 Terminators, and then they'll finish you off.
Fast armies. You'll never catch up, and you'll die in droves in the process.
Effective gunline armies, e.g Imperial Guard and Tau are going to blow you off the board.
Monstrous creatures.

A.k.a, more than half of the lists you meet.

What are you good against?

Newbie Space Marine players that don't buy transports for Space Marines.
Hordes, if you're lucky enough to come up against one of equal size model wise once in a bluemoon. And then theres an all plethora of problems such as monstrous creatures from Nids, Burna boys in Battlewagons from Orks, autocannon teams, etc.

I can't think of anything else.



"Sure, but you can also run mechanized close combat Templars. "

Oh, don't make me laugh.

Why on terra would you play an almost straight downgrade (at least in terms of core) of a Blood Angels list?

-fast transports - at the same price
-far more weapons options
-red thirst
-no dumb rule pulling you off of objectives

Oh, right, you get your "vows". That one thing BT players cling to like they are the best thing since sliced bread.

Spoiler:

they aren't

Hell, Grey Hunters from C:SW do everything Crusaders can do, get the best of both ranged and CC worlds, get pairs of special weapons, frag and krak grenades and at the same time are cheaper.

Codex Black Templars is a mess. Its not worth playing until it receives a decent FAQ update or a Codex/WD abuse of some credit. Its depressing, but evident.

Two things to bear in mind with your critescism of this argument:
1)This focuses on Crusaders, and nothing else, as they are the core components of both list archetypes.
2) Yes, I know about your goddamn tank hunter Terminators, and how they're going to win the game for you like the fairy god mother let Cinderella live happily every after.

I rest my case. Good night.

You dont need to post any more on Black Templar forums if you feel this way.

Is there something else that you know that may help at all?

J99Pwrangler wrote:


You dont need to post any more on Black Templar forums if you feel this way.

What Templar forums? There are none. I don't feel this way, I know that Black Templars are done and finished, it doesn't take a genius to work it out, as I highlighted in that post. GW are going to urinate all over them, dump them in a ditch like SOB and at best give them a terrible WD codex.

I am just stating everyone has there opinion, and all your doing is bashing. Its not needed here.

Back to the OP. Templars are not dead what so ever. Just play them to their strengths.

-5 man troops with a special weapon, and heavy.
-20 man troop blobs.
-techmarine with 2 wounds, equipment from the BT armory
-Marshal with 10 LD to the whole army
-3 special weapons on bikes
-cheap melta bombs on assault marines
-Vindicator with PotMS (move 12" shoot 24" for 36" range)
-terminators with special abilities (tank hunter, or F.Charge)
-Cheap Typhoons


Theres probably a few more I am not thinking of. But Templars are not dead by any means.

INHO when I think BT I think about terminators with 2 cyclone missile lauchers and tank hunter. Its so good. Also cant you still take 5 man units with a lascannon and a plasma gun?

J99Pwrangler wrote:
I am just stating everyone has there opinion, and all your doing is bashing. Its not needed here.

Back to the OP. Templars are not dead what so ever. Just play them to their strengths.

-5 man troops with a special weapon, and heavy.
-20 man troop blobs.
-techmarine with 2 wounds, equipment from the BT armory
-Marshal with 10 LD to the whole army
-3 special weapons on bikes
-cheap melta bombs on assault marines
-Vindicator with PotMS (move 12" shoot 24" for 36" range)
-terminators with special abilities (tank hunter, or F.Charge)
-Cheap Typhoons


Theres probably a few more I am not thinking of. But Templars are not dead by any means.

Take your own advice, he has an opinion he is free to express too. He's not bashing. He's actually explaining WHY they don't work. Templars are turning into SOB, where there are very very few truly competitive list builds left, and thus they are easily countered by most armies.

Any true TAC list can easily handle what the BT can bring, my meta actually has 2 BT players and I don't remember the last time they won a game. Well, they did a few times but honestly they even admitted it was mostly luck of the dice

Hell, even the OP thanked him for actually explaining things so yes it was needed here.


Now, Templars can be run. Don't expect too much from them, but it can be done. And that's the best kind of victory, when you expect to lose and fail but actually win. Much better than using an "OP" codex expecting to win, and losing. They do have strengths, but the issue is that you have to be REALLY careful as all of their strengths can be easily countered now by the competitive codexes (which, is what you will be seeing often).

 Mr.Omega wrote:

J99Pwrangler wrote:


You dont need to post any more on Black Templar forums if you feel this way.

What Templar forums? There are none. I don't feel this way, I know that Black Templars are done and finished, it doesn't take a genius to work it out, as I highlighted in that post. GW are going to urinate all over them, dump them in a ditch like SOB and at best give them a terrible WD codex.

I am talking about his post here in the forums. Well I have been playing Black Templars for a long while now. They are the oldest codex to the best of my knowledge but I still do just fine with them. I may not place 1st in torunys, but i am far from last. I still run with the big new cheesy armies.

@washout77 Plus... I did say everyone has an opinion. Your post is more or less telling us we are not the best codex.. Mr.Omega is bashing. Plain and simple. See his above post.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

J99Pwrangler wrote:


You dont need to post any more on Black Templar forums if you feel this way.

What Templar forums? There are none. I don't feel this way, I know that Black Templars are done and finished, it doesn't take a genius to work it out, as I highlighted in that post. GW are going to urinate all over them, dump them in a ditch like SOB and at best give them a terrible WD codex.

Bolter and Chainsword. Largest Power Armor-dedicated site around. The BT forum has a strong fanbase and it is where I go for in-depth tactica and army lists, made by hands-on actual Black Templar players, not outside observers who have never actually tried the product in question and spend 20 minutes of their day writing unwanted essays outlining its weakpoints for a uncaring audience. I highly recommend it to our BT community here at Dakka.

Meanwhile, if anybody needs me, Im going to head over to Jalopnik and write a review for the new Hyundai Elantra, because even though Ive never actually driven one I simply dont like Hyundai. Im sure the people who like Hyundai no matter what will appreciate my input.