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Hey Dakka,

So after rocking my Orks for the past few years, I wanted to try a new army.

So it looks like its coming down to Tau or IG for me. So where to start?

Lets start with models. For models, I prefer the look of Tau. They are streamlined, clean, and cool looking. Guard? well, lets say I don't care too much for their base models, and If I were to play Guard I'd want either Dkok or Vostroyan models. Speaking of which, does anyone have any experience with painting Vostroyans? They look like they could be difficult. When it comes to Armor, I actually prefer the look of IG's vehicles to the Tau's skimmers.

For gameplay, I really do not know which I prefer because I haven't played either. I don't want a Army that I am quickly going to grow bored of. I need versatility, and captivating gameplay. I do not enjoy static gunlines. Mobility, and tactically stimulating gameplay are what I am looking for, as well as versatility.

Finally, and I know this is a stupid one, Player representation. I know this really depends on my area, but I do not want to play a army everyone else is playing, and I guess that a reason I feel pushed away from IG, as I know there are several guard players in my town.

Alright Dakka, help me decide~! And feel free to include your opinions on both armies.

Tau will be getting a codex sooner than IG. also, they're dirt cheap right now if you're willing to get used models.

Well, if you don't want to run a gunline, then guard is going to be much better for you than tau, as that's pretty much all tau can do anymore nowadays. Not only does this mean the one play style you don't like, but it also means one playstyle. There really isn't a lot of versatility to tau at the moment, whereas there is a LOT more with guard. With guard you can do foot or mech, heavy on fliers or heavy on tanks, deepstrikers and outflankers, or artillery, and make a legitimately different strategy out of any of them. With tau, it's just a matter of which units you're putting in your gunline.

As mentioned, tau is going to get a new codex sooner than guard will, but who knows what it's going to look like?

If you're not big on guard infantry, but like the tanks, you can run mechanized lists. I recently played a game against a guard player that had only 21 infantry models, none of which needed to start the game on the board (because they could be started in transports). In this case, your army could be a few chimeras, and then some tanks or artillery pieces, and you only have to deal with the infantry when the transports are killed (and if they explode, you'll probably even loose a few to boot).

You are right, though, there are a lot more people playing guard than playing tau. If you're looking for more of taking an underestimated army and doing cool stuff with it, then tau is going to be more your schtick. That said, as mentioned, you can do a lot of stuff with guard. If you want, you don't have to be just another faceless guard player who brings a vendetta spam mech list. Lots of people play guard because of just one or two specific builds. Once you get out of those, though, then you can bring a rather different army, even if it comes from a popular codex.

Guard offers an incredible range of opportunities both in the lists available, and in terms of hobby opportunities.

The enormous, dare I say, limitless range of various regiment types means you can basically make any kind of army aesthetically you want; all it needs is 28mm scale and appear human. Want to make starwars style stormtroopers? go nuts. Helghast infantry? Sure, pig iron heads are great for that. Fond of Rambo? Catachans are an army of rambo, right out of the box.

Heck, just start slapping green stuff and plasticard on basic cadians, and you can easily produce some distinct, unique, and interesting troops.

That being said, the Tau are expecting a codex in the near future; if you're not itching to race off into an army just yet, wait and see. The tau have a great model range, and while the rules are lacking, there's no saying where they might go with them. Were it not for inheriting a lump sum of Space Marines, I'd likely have started saving for a Tau force when the new codex comes out.

So, for now, I'd say be patient; I'm biased towards the Guard, they're a lot of fun to build, paint and play, but what the Tau will be is largely unknown as of now. Well, save for shooty. I don't think they'll be turned into the best assault army anytime soon.

MajorStoffer wrote:Tau are expecting a codex in the near future

The question, really, is when. It seems like a lot of stuff is rumored to be "immanent", sometimes YEARS before it actually happens. Plus, we don't know what the contents of the tau codex will be.

That said, the past few years has seen some pretty drastic improvement in playstyle variability. Obviously, not all codices have been a success (DE is still stuck doing little more than AV10 spam, for example), but they've generally been pretty good about breaking armies out of old archetypes and giving old, limited armies a bunch of new stuff to play around with.

That said... it's not guaranteed.

In any case, I feel like guard is a good answer now, and will be a good answer in the future, while tau is a bad answer now, but might be a good answer in the future. I guess it depends on the OP's patience.

Right now, Tau really are not competitive (outside of a few questionably cheesy strategies). The rumor mill has it that Tau are getting a new Codex early 2013, so if you are considering the awesome blue fish-men I would wait for that.


That said, because of Tau's slightly underpowered nature, people are getting rid of them left and right. It is very easy to pick up a sizeable force of Tau on the cheap from Ebay. I've been scouring it for deals in preparation for the new codex. just bought seven XV8's about four hours ago on Ebay for $69 TOTAL!

Cheesedoodler wrote:That said, because of Tau's slightly underpowered nature, people are getting rid of them left and right. It is very easy to pick up a sizeable force of Tau on the cheap from Ebay.

Right.

If what you want is a tau army, you're approaching the best possible time to buy one. Once the new codex comes out, it will invariably be accompanied by a price hike, and the cost of bitz (much less units or full armies) will shoot through the roof. The best time to buy an army is right before a new codex comes out.

The best time to CHOOSE an army, however...

This seems to be my current predicament. I like both armies. Models and fluff wise i seem to be leaning more towards tau, since i hate how cadians look and cant stand the fluff surrounding the imperium. If i were to go guard, i'd want to go with alternative models. I really like Vostroyans, but i just learned that all their models are metal, and what few experiences i have had with metal models have been bad. But i love all the versatility that guard has.

I am really stuck.

GalacticZ wrote:This seems to be my current predicament. I like both armies. Models and fluff wise i seem to be leaning more towards tau, since i hate how cadians look and cant stand the fluff surrounding the imperium.

Wait. If you don't like the fluff, then you don't like the army.

If you want to play tau, then play tau. Don't settle on a second choice just because it happens to have more options or be more competitive at the moment.

Think of starting a tau army as marrying a girl who is going into grad school. You may be poor in the short term, but you love what you love, and it will probably pay off in the end.

Hello,
Firstly, the Tau codex probably IS coming out early next year, or at least in the first half, therefore there will be a big growth in everything: models, tournament value and price hikes. So if you're going to start the basics, start now, because I doubt they'll kick out the XV-8s and the Fire Warriors, which are pretty much the basic units.
Also, don't dismiss Tau play-ability. They can have mechanized Infantry, just in smaller quantities, they have a lot of deepstriking power and you need to play them moving. You can't, repeat CAN'T have a 'static' Tau gunline. You can have one or two units that are static, but if the rest of the stuff isn't moving, then they'll quickly get pinned down somewhere and die. The Tau don't have the firing capacity of the IG, but they can put a lot of hurt on a unit with their S 5 AP 5 basic rifles.
Base for any tactics:
Static firing line: this is manly Kroot or allied IG detachments.
Moving units: Fire Warriors and XV-8 suits.

Also, this is a very cheesy list:
Farsight, 20 other XV-8s and twelve FW in two six-man, no upgrade squads, is a very powerful but very cheesy. AND if you get stuck against Orks, BONUS!

 GalacticZ wrote:
This seems to be my current predicament. I like both armies. Models and fluff wise i seem to be leaning more towards tau, since i hate how cadians look and cant stand the fluff surrounding the imperium. If i were to go guard, i'd want to go with alternative models. I really like Vostroyans, but i just learned that all their models are metal, and what few experiences i have had with metal models have been bad. But i love all the versatility that guard has.

I am really stuck.

Oh. Then play Tau. If you don't like the models, or the fluff, then play Tau. If you pick IG because it's "competitive" and "versatile" not because you like the stuff, then you won't WANT to play it for long. And you also wont be too motivated to try those versatile units out, because if you aren't playing Cadians then you would end up with a really expensive army really fast and that demotivates a lot of people for good reason.

And even if you do play Tau, you can still fit in the IG versatility. Take IG as allies, it seems a popular choice, and you can fluff it as Gue'Vesa regiments

Well, for models, I saw that Pig Iron has Kolony Gas Mask heads which I could use on the basic Cadian. With a decent paint scheme I think they'd look good, and that'd solve the issue with the models.

For Fluff, I could make my own. Create a Traitor legion, striking out on their own from the Imperium.

Although, a Guard Army will most likely be rather expensive in comparison. What do you guys think?

I would go Tau personnally, but thats because I picked them up myself as Allies to my Crons.

And the Tau Battleforce is a decent army at 750pts, if you get a hammerhead weaps frame.

If you like tons of options = IG wins, Tau is good too
If you like FW stuff = IG wins in spades, but there are Tau options
If you like being a solid ally force to other forces = IG is better, Tau is still good
If you like being a special flower = Tau
If you are picking a new force for the challenge = Tau
If you are picking a new force for cheese = IG is better
If you are wanting to get ahead of a new 'dex = Tau
If you want something that is a very different aesthetic to Orks = Tau
If you want something very familiar and easy to master = IG
If you like dancing a ballet while dodging knives and playing chess = Tau

I play/own over 2k of both. I play Tau for the challenge and when I'm feeling a need to flex my mental muscle. I play Orks when I've had a bad day and I want to feel better, win or lose. I play IG whenever I feel like a Soviet style slaughter where my Kiev steamroller will either go out gloriously or curb-stomp something.

IHateNids wrote:I would go Tau personnally, but thats because I picked them up myself as Allies to my Crons.

Tau allied with Necron?

Tau. All the way.

If you don't really care about competitive high end tournament play, at least for the next 6 months or so while you're building up your army, then Tau will be just fine.

The current codex has some issues - it never got the 5th ed point reductions that several other armies did, and it's fairly inflexible in a lot of ways as far as unit choices. That said, you can still make some really hard hitting lists with it. XV8s, FWs in Devilfish with pods, Hammerheads with Forgeworld turrets or Broadsides... you've got a solid core there. You'll need allies to deal with flyers, or another strategy to do so, but it's totally workable.

If you've already got orks, use them as allies to fill any role holes in your budding Tau army until we get our new codex around May 2013.

 Ailaros wrote:

IHateNids wrote:I would go Tau personnally, but thats because I picked them up myself as Allies to my Crons.

Tau allied with Necron?

For the sole purpose of Broadsides.

I usually run a Shas'el with TL MP, Plas and two Shield Drones, 3 Broadsides and a minimum FW unit.

Usually.

 IHateNids wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

IHateNids wrote:I would go Tau personnally, but thats because I picked them up myself as Allies to my Crons.

Tau allied with Necron?

For the sole purpose of Broadsides.

I usually run a Shas'el with TL MP, Plas and two Shield Drones, 3 Broadsides and a minimum FW unit.

Usually.

*cuts to a picture of a table filled with firewarriors and necron warriors with IHateNids laughing evilly in the background as lightning flashes overhead*

The More I read IG's fluff, the more I am actually starting to like it. I just picked up the first Gaunt's Ghosts Omnibus, and have been reading through the codex.

My only two concerns are: IG are going to play like a static gunline, with all their tanks and artillery (Although half the reason I want to play IG is their versatile powerful tanks.)

And how expensive is a IG army going to be?

 GalacticZ wrote:
The More I read IG's fluff, the more I am actually starting to like it. I just picked up the first Gaunt's Ghosts Omnibus, and have been reading through the codex.

My only two concerns are: IG are going to play like a static gunline, with all their tanks and artillery (Although half the reason I want to play IG is their versatile powerful tanks.)

And how expensive is a IG army going to be?

Ig is, arguable, the most expensive army GW produces.

And, as we have said before, IG has many play styles. Mech is very mobile. Footguard with a healthy smattering of stormtroopers is mobile. IG tanks can move and fire all of their guns because of being heavy (Unless you have a ordnance gun, because of ordanance), so mobility is not an issue.

If you can think of a military strategy, Guard can do that. You do not have to play an immobile gunline.

i can help with your worries there. ive played both, granted my ig is elysian i see a lot of overlay. the ig i find to be extremely versatile and rather fun. if you look at historical tactics you can see how people turned the regular static tactics into highly mobile tactics. with the ig honestly you can do anything with them (well pretty much) as for tau it seems more linear and restrictive, though still fun you wont have the same restrictions with the ig. and it all depends on what you are running. it can be dirt cheap or it can put you in the poor house, from what i see vostroyan tend to run right down the middle of those to and DKoK runs more expensive.

Happygrunt wrote:
Ig is, arguable, the most expensive army GW produces.

And, as we have said before, IG has many play styles. Mech is very mobile. Footguard with a healthy smattering of stormtroopers is mobile. IG tanks can move and fire all of their guns because of being heavy (Unless you have a ordnance gun, because of ordanance), so mobility is not an issue.

If you can think of a military strategy, Guard can do that. You do not have to play an immobile gunline.

Yeah, thats what I was afraid of. But that being said, My buddy bought some IG models (A Battleforce and a LR) and never did anything with them, I could probably buy them off him for cheap, and that seems like a nice start to the Army.

gh05tdemon wrote:i can help with your worries there. ive played both, granted my ig is elysian i see a lot of overlay. the ig i find to be extremely versatile and rather fun. if you look at historical tactics you can see how people turned the regular static tactics into highly mobile tactics. with the ig honestly you can do anything with them (well pretty much) as for tau it seems more linear and restrictive, though still fun you wont have the same restrictions with the ig. and it all depends on what you are running. it can be dirt cheap or it can put you in the poor house, from what i see vostroyan tend to run right down the middle of those to and DKoK runs more expensive.

This seems to be the general idea of IG that I get. And I think I could have alot of fun with this Army. For models, I have determined I will just get pig iron heads on Cadians, so I get better looking models (In my opinion), for a much cheaper fee than Vostroyans or Dkok.


In any given 1500 point IG list, how many Vehichles (Tanks, Transports, Artillery, Fliers) do I typically need? How many Infantry/Weapons teams?

Also I am a tad confused by the Platoon Mechanic. Does that mean I have a big blob of Infantry, Special Weapons, and Heavy Weapons led by a command squad? Or are they spread out across the battle field? The Platoon Mechanic seems like it makes filling troop Choices expensive (point wise and money wise).

 GalacticZ wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:
Ig is, arguable, the most expensive army GW produces.

And, as we have said before, IG has many play styles. Mech is very mobile. Footguard with a healthy smattering of stormtroopers is mobile. IG tanks can move and fire all of their guns because of being heavy (Unless you have a ordnance gun, because of ordanance), so mobility is not an issue.

If you can think of a military strategy, Guard can do that. You do not have to play an immobile gunline.

Yeah, thats what I was afraid of. But that being said, My buddy bought some IG models (A Battleforce and a LR) and never did anything with them, I could probably buy them off him for cheap, and that seems like a nice start to the Army.

gh05tdemon wrote:i can help with your worries there. ive played both, granted my ig is elysian i see a lot of overlay. the ig i find to be extremely versatile and rather fun. if you look at historical tactics you can see how people turned the regular static tactics into highly mobile tactics. with the ig honestly you can do anything with them (well pretty much) as for tau it seems more linear and restrictive, though still fun you wont have the same restrictions with the ig. and it all depends on what you are running. it can be dirt cheap or it can put you in the poor house, from what i see vostroyan tend to run right down the middle of those to and DKoK runs more expensive.

This seems to be the general idea of IG that I get. And I think I could have alot of fun with this Army. For models, I have determined I will just get pig iron heads on Cadians, so I get better looking models (In my opinion), for a much cheaper fee than Vostroyans or Dkok.


In any given 1500 point IG list, how many Vehichles (Tanks, Transports, Artillery, Fliers) do I typically need? How many Infantry/Weapons teams?

Also I am a tad confused by the Platoon Mechanic. Does that mean I have a big blob of Infantry, Special Weapons, and Heavy Weapons led by a command squad? Or are they spread out across the battle field? The Platoon Mechanic seems like it makes filling troop Choices expensive (point wise and money wise).

It depends on what exactly you want to run, a mech list you would need to run a one one list. if you are doing foot guard is where i see the platoon dynamic as really coming through, it has an advantage in that you can use some high leadership and you can bring a good number of guns to bare on the enemy.

I tended to run higher number of infantry. because of this i don't know all the particulars on their vehicles but a good idea to keep in mind is how fragile each unit is. that said artillery/air support is highly recommended. as well as tanks to take on the enemy more directly. the easiiest way i see to build ig and to know what you need to bring is by seeing what your focus will be. will your armor be infantry support or your infantry your armor support? the choices with guard are to vast to say for sure, but i hope this helps

MrMoustaffa wrote:

Spoiler:

IHateNids wrote:

Ailaros wrote:

IHateNids wrote:I would go Tau personnally, but thats because I picked them up myself as Allies to my Crons.

Tau allied with Necron?

For the sole purpose of Broadsides.

I usually run a Shas'el with TL MP, Plas and two Shield Drones, 3 Broadsides and a minimum FW unit.

Usually.

*cuts to a picture of a table filled with firewarriors and necron warriors with IHateNids laughing evilly in the background as lightning flashes overhead*

Thats my usual setup.

gh05tdemon wrote:

 GalacticZ wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:
Ig is, arguable, the most expensive army GW produces.

And, as we have said before, IG has many play styles. Mech is very mobile. Footguard with a healthy smattering of stormtroopers is mobile. IG tanks can move and fire all of their guns because of being heavy (Unless you have a ordnance gun, because of ordanance), so mobility is not an issue.

If you can think of a military strategy, Guard can do that. You do not have to play an immobile gunline.

Yeah, thats what I was afraid of. But that being said, My buddy bought some IG models (A Battleforce and a LR) and never did anything with them, I could probably buy them off him for cheap, and that seems like a nice start to the Army.

gh05tdemon wrote:i can help with your worries there. ive played both, granted my ig is elysian i see a lot of overlay. the ig i find to be extremely versatile and rather fun. if you look at historical tactics you can see how people turned the regular static tactics into highly mobile tactics. with the ig honestly you can do anything with them (well pretty much) as for tau it seems more linear and restrictive, though still fun you wont have the same restrictions with the ig. and it all depends on what you are running. it can be dirt cheap or it can put you in the poor house, from what i see vostroyan tend to run right down the middle of those to and DKoK runs more expensive.

This seems to be the general idea of IG that I get. And I think I could have alot of fun with this Army. For models, I have determined I will just get pig iron heads on Cadians, so I get better looking models (In my opinion), for a much cheaper fee than Vostroyans or Dkok.


In any given 1500 point IG list, how many Vehichles (Tanks, Transports, Artillery, Fliers) do I typically need? How many Infantry/Weapons teams?

Also I am a tad confused by the Platoon Mechanic. Does that mean I have a big blob of Infantry, Special Weapons, and Heavy Weapons led by a command squad? Or are they spread out across the battle field? The Platoon Mechanic seems like it makes filling troop Choices expensive (point wise and money wise).

It depends on what exactly you want to run, a mech list you would need to run a one one list. if you are doing foot guard is where i see the platoon dynamic as really coming through, it has an advantage in that you can use some high leadership and you can bring a good number of guns to bare on the enemy.

I tended to run higher number of infantry. because of this i don't know all the particulars on their vehicles but a good idea to keep in mind is how fragile each unit is. that said artillery/air support is highly recommended. as well as tanks to take on the enemy more directly. the easiiest way i see to build ig and to know what you need to bring is by seeing what your focus will be. will your armor be infantry support or your infantry your armor support? the choices with guard are to vast to say for sure, but i hope this helps

Well I really like the order system, and Vehicles and Fliers are rather expensive, so Starting off, I will most likely run a Infantry list. As the months go on, I will most likely be able to get more armor/fliers and add more to my lists.

How exactly does that platoon mechanic work ?

Think of the platoon as a force org in your force org. You have your HQ (PCS) troops (infantry squads), elites (SWS's) and heavy support (HWS's) with conscripts being a kind of outlier. You MUST take a PCS and at least 2 infantry squads, but from there everything else is optional and you can take as much as you have points/slots for. One thing you need to remember is that you CANNOT buy infantry squads, SWS's, HWS's, PCS's, or conscripts on their own. They must be bought as part of a platoon. It is quite literally a miniature army that is occupying a single troop slot.

A platoon counts as ONE TROOP CHOICE, and everything in it is a troop. Your HWS's, PCS's, SWS's, conscripts, and infantry squads can all score, and all are counted as troops, since they're part of a platoon. They are all separate units, and can be deployed as you wish. Infantry squads can combine to make massive "blobs" of infantry, but the other choices cannot. A platoon counts as one unit for the purposes of deployment (so if a platoon was held in reserve, when you roll for it to come in, EVERYTHING in the platoon comes in)

TL;DR, Yo dawg, we heard you like force organization charts, so we stuck a force org in your force org so you can write yo list while you write yo list.

You sir, win the internet.

If you really can't decide, use allied detachments. Have Imperial guard tanks painted in the tau theme, and tau units as the allied detachment. (Guard need the slots for tanks. Best of both worlds.

<---You know about space utilitarians "little helpers" right?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Think of the platoon as a force org in your force org. You have your HQ (PCS) troops (infantry squads), elites (SWS's) and heavy support (HWS's) with conscripts being a kind of outlier. You MUST take a PCS and at least 2 infantry squads, but from there everything else is optional and you can take as much as you have points/slots for. One thing you need to remember is that you CANNOT buy infantry squads, SWS's, HWS's, PCS's, or conscripts on their own. They must be bought as part of a platoon. It is quite literally a miniature army that is occupying a single troop slot.

A platoon counts as ONE TROOP CHOICE, and everything in it is a troop. Your HWS's, PCS's, SWS's, conscripts, and infantry squads can all score, and all are counted as troops, since they're part of a platoon. They are all separate units, and can be deployed as you wish. Infantry squads can combine to make massive "blobs" of infantry, but the other choices cannot. A platoon counts as one unit for the purposes of deployment (so if a platoon was held in reserve, when you roll for it to come in, EVERYTHING in the platoon comes in)

TL;DR, Yo dawg, we heard you like force organization charts, so we stuck a force org in your force org so you can write yo list while you write yo list.

I had no idea platoons where that simple to use. My elysians are d99 which doesn't have platoons so. but ya thanks for explaining, especially so simply. thumbs up to you man