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Hey all! So I had my first battle with my Blood Angels army, and I report they did awesome. Everything did about it should have, the Sanguinary Guard and Honor Guard with their awesome saves and FnP took a horrendous amount of Eldar shooting before closing the distance and mowing down/chopping up the entire army for 6 casualties. It was a two team, 3 person/1500pt per side game. Mephiston (who I threw in because I didn't finish my Storm Raven in time) accounted for 10 Dire Avengers, 5 Dark Reapers, 15-20 Termagants and a Tervigon (rolled 6 hits and 6 wounds in one go, totally forgot the Force Weapon part lol).
Anyways, on the heels of this, id like to add some more punch to the army, and at the same time, as awesome as he is, I don't want Mephiston the become a crutch that I rely on.
The list is currently this:
Librarian w/Jump Pack (ran with Divination to get Prescience to use on...)
x5 Honor Guard w/ x4 Plasmaguns (mowed down a Wraithlord so easily with reliable rolls/re-rolls, and FnP kept the overheating casualties away)
Mephiston

x5 Sanguinary Guard w/x1 Infernus Pistol (joined by...)
Sanguinary Priest w/Jump Pack, Power Sword
Furioso Librarian, run with Wings and Shield

X10 Tactical Marines, Fist, Plasmagun, Plasma Cannon
X8 Bolter Death Company (these guys ran around blowing things up with gun and fist)
Death Company Dreadnought w/ Talons

That should be it.

So, I have a few things to add, such as the aforementioned Storm Raven and now a Land Raider (TL Las/TL Hb's) and I had initially thought about putting 10 Assault Marines in the Land Raider, but then thought maybe x9 with either a character or, for fun, Brother Corbulo.
Then I starting thinking Vanguard Vets might be fun too, either with Corbulo or another character.

Does anyone have any good or bad experience to share with BA Van Vets and/or Corbulo, not necessarily together?
Any other thoughts would be appreciated!

Thanks!
T-

Corbs is great, but I consider the vanguards far too expensive for what they do. Especially since IC can't join them.

Imo only way to run Vets are cheap with 1-2 Pw max. Drop in, tie up a ranged weapon squad and free up your attention somewhere else.

Alternatively, 1 pw + 2 meltabombs are also a configure you can use.

So would I be better off running a regular Assault squad? I was leaning towards a TH and 1 (if 9 in the squad) or 2 (if 10) Meltaguns.

If I ran 9 Assault Marines with Corbulo they could barrel out of a Land Raider and cause some hurt. Alternatively, with the Raider's TL Lascannons, I could opt for other weapons, like Hand Flamers or Infernus Pistols.

That could give me a decent melee squad, that could, if necessary, agressively go after an enemy-held objective.

Any other thoughts on all this? Are Van Vets just too pricey? Would the Assault squad be a waste of time?

Thanks!
T-

 hazal wrote:
Imo only way to run Vets are cheap with 1-2 Pw max. Drop in, tie up a ranged weapon squad and free up your attention somewhere else.

Alternatively, 1 pw + 2 meltabombs are also a configure you can use.

Both these look good, it only depends on what your meta calls for. More troop oriented, or more mech?

The general opinnion on corbulo is that two SP are better than he is 99% of the time... i agree

As for VA ours (BA) are the only ones worth using and they are always considered too expensive except for that time when they do what they need to with no cock ups, then they can be worth twice their points, i love the impact on my opponents deployment when they know i'm running mine, they've arrived and swept a large unit of crons so many times they're basically priceless

I've seen these guys backfire too often to recommend them. Even with DoA, there is a good possibility that one scatters out of reliable charge range, or into deep strike mishaps. The more aggressive you place them, the more likely a mishap and the less likely you go out of charge range. And there is always the outside chance they don't arrive till turn 3. But there it is.

For any many points as you pay for them, space marine lists need reliability, I think. They also help trash your model count, which is easy to do in BA armies. Ooohh.... shiny elites.

What suggestions do you guys have for what I'm looking to do then?

If Van Vets are too expensive, and don't really work without jump packs, and Cobulo isn't quite as useful as a regular Priest (even though WS5 S5 Rending chainsword and 3+/2+ FnP is pretty sweet).

What I was thinking about doing(which I might have said before) was dropping Mephiston to add a Land Raider, Storm Raven, and an Assault squad or Vanguard Vets joined by Corbulo. I only have the one scoring unit in the x10 Tactical Marines, that can capture objectives and wouldn't mind something that could get get one if need be.

Any ideas on that?
Thanks!
T-

Well, I often ran a pure DoA army in the 5th ed. At the 2000 pt level, I always included 3x 5 Vanguard Vets w/ power fist. These units are absolutely amazing since they are able to silence guns upon arrival. As you know, with the DoA and HI special rules they should be able to charge right away. Vanguard Vets are even better for this in the 6th. The reason is that they will hit tanks always on 3+ or better. My opponents usually moved their tanks more than 6'' as they knew that the VV's will arrive soon.

Interesting point, wuestenfux.

Has anyone run Vanguard Vets without Jump Packs? I realize this kills the whole Heroic Intervention idea, but there are more weapons options available than to an Assault squad.

Like I said, looking to run Corbulo which I've read a lot of positive feedback and uses for him that make me believe he's worth the points. I had just figured he'd be useful running with and Assault/Vanguard Vet squad out of a Land Raider. It does sound like the Van vets are best left Jump Infantry though...

Anyone?
Thanks for the replies!
T-

 wuestenfux wrote:
Vanguard Vets are even better for this in the 6th. The reason is that they will hit tanks always on 3+ or better.

Don't you think sternguard are better for this? Or even an assault squad or two with melta-guns?

I've seen VV a couple of times, and I think 6 naked members who drop in and tie up a devastator/LF/Havok squad or whatever long range infantry unit your opponent is using. They won't kill them when they land, but that's what you want. You want to finish them off on your opponents assault phase anyway.

Oh note on Corbulo; I personally don't like him. 2+ FNP sounds great, and would be if he also had a 2+ save. I normally just see him, aim my battle cannon then laugh as the 3+, 2+ FNP are ignored.

Corbulo IS worth it. He is an awesome wound sink against a variety of weapons. He has frickin 2+ FNP! Eldar scatterlasers and starcannons cry.........

Corbulo is the new staple in any Blood Angels army. I5, WS5 rending chainsword, 2+FNP, 2 wounds and the far-seeing eye. He is a wound sink and a half. People all to often forget the far seeing eye which can be a game changer. Aim whatever you want at him, he also makes his LoS on a 2+. His only shortcoming is lack of option for a jump pack.

For the points he is WELL worth it.

cracka wrote:
Corbulo is the new staple in any Blood Angels army. I5, WS5 rending chainsword, 2+FNP, 2 wounds and the far-seeing eye. He is a wound sink and a half. People all to often forget the far seeing eye which can be a game changer. Aim whatever you want at him, he also makes his LoS on a 2+. His only shortcoming is lack of option for a jump pack.

For the points he is WELL worth it.

Without a jump back, he's very limited. I'd be inclined to include such a character in my DoA army but being on foot will not make much sense.

 Trogdor the Burninator wrote:
Has anyone run Vanguard Vets without Jump Packs? I realize this kills the whole Heroic Intervention idea, but there are more weapons options available than to an Assault squad.

Like I said, looking to run Corbulo which I've read a lot of positive feedback and uses for him that make me believe he's worth the points. I had just figured he'd be useful running with and Assault/Vanguard Vet squad out of a Land Raider. It does sound like the Van vets are best left Jump Infantry though...

Anyone?
Thanks for the replies!
T-

If you don't plan on using Heroic Intervention, Honour Guard are a better choice. The only thing they lose out on is being scoring in Scouring.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

 Trogdor the Burninator wrote:
Has anyone run Vanguard Vets without Jump Packs? I realize this kills the whole Heroic Intervention idea, but there are more weapons options available than to an Assault squad.

Like I said, looking to run Corbulo which I've read a lot of positive feedback and uses for him that make me believe he's worth the points. I had just figured he'd be useful running with and Assault/Vanguard Vet squad out of a Land Raider. It does sound like the Van vets are best left Jump Infantry though...

Anyone?
Thanks for the replies!
T-

If you don't plan on using Heroic Intervention, Honour Guard are a better choice. The only thing they lose out on is being scoring in Scouring.

No, use 5 men squads of Vanguard Vets with powerfist and/or melta bomb.
I used three of these units in my 2000 DoA army and they never disappointed me. Upon arrival should be in charging range and are able to silence guns (tanks or shooty units).

That would constitute using Heroic Intervention. By the way, for Deep Striking vehicle killing, Honour Guard are better for that, too since you can give 4 of them meltaguns, or pairs of Inferno Pistols.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
That would constitute using Heroic Intervention. By the way, for Deep Striking vehicle killing, Honour Guard are better for that, too since you can give 4 of them meltaguns, or pairs of Inferno Pistols.

Well, it depends. A vehicle with rear armor AV 10 can easily be taken down by five charging Vanguard Vets (with power fist, melta bomb, and eventually FC). Against AV 14 vehicles like LRs or Monoliths, melta shots are better.

I thought Vanguard Vets did NOT have Decent of Angels and thus they always scattered the full 2d6 if an arrow was rolled.

OP - your list is lacking in scoring units. You could put an assault squad into a Land Raider (redeemer) and attach a character to them.

You're mistaken.

Any model in C:BA with a jump pack has DOA conferred on it.
It's in the JP entry in the wargear section.

DarthDiggler wrote:
I thought Vanguard Vets did NOT have Decent of Angels and thus they always scattered the full 2d6 if an arrow was rolled.

OP - your list is lacking in scoring units. You could put an assault squad into a Land Raider (redeemer) and attach a character to them.

Oh, Vanguard Vets benefit from the DoA special rule. You have to look into the entry for jump packs.

Why I have never noticed that. What's the point of giving everybody else the decent of angels special rule and having the VV's get the rule by proxy? GW does indeed work in mysterious ways.

In fact, the rule applies to all BA with jump packs.
Honor Guard with 4 special weapons is also a decent choice. They come with a built-in chalice.

Even with a D6 scatter, their ability is dubious at the points you shell out. It's even worse if your enemy doesn't have a "sweet target"; ie, the ability is essentially wasted due to your enemy's composition.

Martel732 wrote:
Even with a D6 scatter, their ability is dubious at the points you shell out. It's even worse if your enemy doesn't have a "sweet target"; ie, the ability is essentially wasted due to your enemy's composition.

In the 5th ed, a DoA army worked very well as the whole army could stay in reserve. Then you could thrown the whole army against one enemy flank. Assault Marines with meltas, Honor Guard with meltas, plasma guns or flamers, led by Libbys with blood lance and shield, Vanguard Vets, and some Sang. Priests worked very well together.
In the 6th, the situation is different since only half of the army can stay in reserve. Frankly, I haven't played it in the new incarnation of the game.

I slaughtered every DoA army I fought in 5th edition.

That said, I'm not saying it couldn't win sometimes, and I did it a few times myself to some success. But razorspam was a horror to behold in 5th that DoA couldn't touch.

Well, Razorback spam was slightly ahead when compared with DoA in the 5th ed. My DoA army was struggling vs. Razorback spam only if the enemy had one or two Dreads with blood talons who made it into the melee.
The situation has changed dramatically in the new edition since neither Razorback spam nor pure DoA is playable at the competitive level in the 6th ed.

I didn't use blood talon dreads. I just bubble wrapped well and inflicted heavy casualties on their deep strike turn. If they shot, they didn't get to spread out at all. Also, I got to assault them with Str 5 init 5 foot assault troops. I have always considered blood talons rubbish. They are double rubbish in 6th edition since they are AP 3.

Yes, it's not clear at all what the thing to do with BA is in 6th, and I suspect that is because none of the options is very good.

what id be looking to do is include Corbulo on a foot squad. Of course it makes no sense to put him in a Jump squad. I think I posted the list I use currently for 1500pts, if not here it is again:

Librarian: Jump Pack (Divination)
x5 Honor Guard: x4 Plasmaguns, Novitiate

Mephiston

X5 Sanguinary Guard: x1 Infernus Pistol (joined by)
Sanguinary Priest: Jump Pack, Power Sword

x10 Tactical Marines: Fist, Plasmagun, Plasma Cannon
x8 Bolter Death Company
Death Company Dreadnought (Talons)

I currently have a Storm Raven, Land Raider(standard), and I think enough parts to make 9 Assault Marines on foot or jump. I was leaning towards the on foot with Corbulo in the Land Raider and for the sheer fact that I can, and it could be fun, I was thinking of deep striking the whole thing in the Land Raider, shoot, assault out next turn.

I definitely appreciate the feedback!
Thanks!
T-