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Hey Dakka,

I've come across a little glitch in the Armada expansion for BFG.
The Avenger Grand Cruiser is listed as 220 points where they show you the picture of the ship and in the fleet listings, it says that it is only 200 points and in the 2010 FAQ, it doesn't address this.
What's the general consensus on what price it is?

Also, what do the IN players think about the Grand cruisers? Useful, meh or dead weight?
I think that both the Vengeance and Avenger can be useful. Especially if a Vengeance or two tags along with an Emperor Battleship. All of them can reach out to 60cm and hit out with about 36wb, backed up with 4 lances to 45cm. Pretty deadly to pretty much anything, especially Eldar.
Seeing an Avenger crossing the T on my ships with a Tyrant or another Avenger (or both) scares the crap out of me.

Thanks,
A-H.

Hmmm, I would go with the point listed in the actual Ship entry. if there is a Typo, it is more likely to occur where there is a list of point values right after the other.

The grand cruisers can be useful but the Avenger is garbage at 220. The Vengance is easily the best of the of the group. I hate the model tho :/ butt ugly imo.

As is to be expected of a transition design between the older designes that Chaos still uses and the newer Armor Prow designs.

I honestly like the look of them. I do find the current IN ships with the full armoured prow to be more aesthetically pleasing, there's just something about the shape of the ship, plus the quirky looking prow that catches my eye.

 A-Hivemind wrote:

Also, what do the IN players think about the Grand cruisers? Useful, meh or dead weight?
I think that both the Vengeance and Avenger can be useful. Especially if a Vengeance or two tags along with an Emperor Battleship. All of them can reach out to 60cm and hit out with about 36wb, backed up with 4 lances to 45cm. Pretty deadly to pretty much anything, especially Eldar.
Seeing an Avenger crossing the T on my ships with a Tyrant or another Avenger (or both) scares the crap out of me.

I have little experience on Grand Cruisers, but they seem kinda odd. IN Grand Cruisers play almost like Chaos ships, and Chaos GC's play like IN ships. They don't count to cruiser limits when getting battleships which may be a problem for fleet composition. OTOH they're pretty cheap in points.

Chaos and imperial fleet requirements are a bit different for grand cruisers also. Chaos may take one for every three heavy cruisers or cruisers. Imperials may take one grand OR battle cruiser for every two cruisers.

Thats a bit more limiting for the IN when you compare the grands with some of the great battle cruiser options. Plus Chaos can take two cruisers and one heavy and one grand and one battleship legally. For the IN to match a battleship and one grand and one battle cruiser they would require four standard cruisers instead of two.

Of course Imperial Cruisers are awsome anyway, its not really limiting if you were already doing it.

i had never noticed the 200/220 thing, thats interesting. i generally see people on the forums say 220 is too much for the avenger, it either needs more wb or to cost less.
what would people say to a 200 point grand cruiser?

Ive got no problem with it.

200pts is good with it. Otherwise it is the junkiest Grand Cruiser.

I like the Grand Cruiser models.

I think what Avenger needs is a prow armour. Seems pretty silly to have a 'line-breaker' which doesn't have survivability to get close enough to break enemy line.

My Vengeance is nearly finished, I guess I'll try out Avenger configuration out as well...

I don't care about the prow armor, the lack of prow weaponry is what annoys me.

will have a chat with my regular opponent and see what he thinks. my avenger doesnt get taken out of the box very often.

in comparison it gets out broadsided by a slaughter(capable of wb11 and 2 lances to each side at once) is a lot slower generally and doesnt have the improved thrusters either.
i think 200 seems fair giving an extra shield and turret plus 2 hit points. even then it may still be overcosted when compared to the slaughter.
slaughter models are cheaper as well, maybe just reserve a slaughter into your fleet if you are after some short range firepower and you havent built an avenger yet?

Or use the BFG:R variant.

200pts, 20str per broadside.

All Vengeance variants seem bit undergunned, but mere 16 short-range batteries for a large cruiser with two decks full of guns is on a light side.