Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm not a big fan of the ghost human look with the dreads she seems to have after being restored to her human form. Have they mentioned whether or not Kerrigan eventually regains her Queen of Blades form through the upgrades that she gets during the campaign?

A decent writer? How about good campaign design?

I doubt that she will be rezergifed as wings of liberty was essentially all about getting her back.

Now thats just mean.

But from what I've heard and the impression of the trailer. It looks like shes going to regain control of the swarm and considering theres some talk of the game involving the option to gain biomass from conquered worlds I'm not really seeing the old Kerrigan as being completely back if shes going around doing that, invading worlds and killing millions to get vengence on one man... The impression I got was that Raynor took away some of her powers temporaily and maybe brought some of her humanity back. But essentially its about her regaining the power she lost. So getting re-zergified wouldn't be surprising. It also looks odd her dressed like a ghost commando leading the swarm.

A Culexus helmet. Or maybe a Venom Cannon.

Palindrome wrote:
A decent writer? How about good campaign design?

I doubt that she will be rezergifed as wings of liberty was essentially all about getting her back.

Personally I would prefer a decent writer over campaign design but yes both are important... as WoL showed. (grumbles at stupid non-linear story making the story pants on head slowed if you play it a certain way like I did my first time)

Personally, I would like it if we could influence how are Kerrigan will become in a KotOR style (I doubt they would do this, too difficult with another game still in production, or at least they wouldnt want to deal with 2 branching endings) because I would love to make my Kerrigan evil. Im actually a fan of playing good but I did not like the idea of Kerrigan can be redeemed and is forgiven of the 5 billion humans she has murdered. I want everyone to continue to hate her and there be no doubt in anyone's mind that she is evil. In short, I want Raynor to be wrong (as much as I like him)


But than Again I was yelling at the characters in Brood War to stop acting like idiots and side with the UED AGAINST Kerrigan. Seriously what fething idiot thought the UED was the greater of 2 evils when we are talking about the god damn Zerg

 Galdos wrote:

Palindrome wrote:
A decent writer? How about good campaign design?

I doubt that she will be rezergifed as wings of liberty was essentially all about getting her back.

Personally I would prefer a decent writer over campaign design but yes both are important... as WoL showed. (grumbles at stupid non-linear story making the story pants on head slowed if you play it a certain way like I did my first time)

Personally, I would like it if we could influence how are Kerrigan will become in a KotOR style (I doubt they would do this, too difficult with another game still in production, or at least they wouldnt want to deal with 2 branching endings) because I would love to make my Kerrigan evil. Im actually a fan of playing good but I did not like the idea of Kerrigan can be redeemed and is forgiven of the 5 billion humans she has murdered. I want everyone to continue to hate her and there be no doubt in anyone's mind that she is evil. In short, I want Raynor to be wrong (as much as I like him)


But than Again I was yelling at the characters in Brood War to stop acting like idiots and side with the UED AGAINST Kerrigan. Seriously what fething idiot thought the UED was the greater of 2 evils when we are talking about the god damn Zerg

Because she has a pretty face... Better the devil you know....

Yeah I had similar issues with the Wings of Liberty campaign. The best part of it I've played was the linear set of Protoss missions retelling that guys journey to find about the prophecy and getting to fight the end times. The rest feels unrelated and the choices you do make like with the colony a little few and far between (I chose to side with the Protoss because they have a point and she was not going to shoot a cure out of her ass). Also, I'm not a big fan of them using the game engine for the on-ship dialogue. This works fine on Halo 4 or something where the graphics engine is just that good, but it just looks bad and I can get the game on max settings; the CGI cutscenes are much better and it would have been better to just use this.

 Galdos wrote:

Palindrome wrote:
A decent writer? How about good campaign design?

I doubt that she will be rezergifed as wings of liberty was essentially all about getting her back.

Personally I would prefer a decent writer over campaign design but yes both are important... as WoL showed. (grumbles at stupid non-linear story making the story pants on head slowed if you play it a certain way like I did my first time)

Personally, I would like it if we could influence how are Kerrigan will become in a KotOR style (I doubt they would do this, too difficult with another game still in production, or at least they wouldnt want to deal with 2 branching endings) because I would love to make my Kerrigan evil. Im actually a fan of playing good but I did not like the idea of Kerrigan can be redeemed and is forgiven of the 5 billion humans she has murdered. I want everyone to continue to hate her and there be no doubt in anyone's mind that she is evil. In short, I want Raynor to be wrong (as much as I like him)


But than Again I was yelling at the characters in Brood War to stop acting like idiots and side with the UED AGAINST Kerrigan. Seriously what fething idiot thought the UED was the greater of 2 evils when we are talking about the god damn Zerg

For that last line i could not agree more. I'm kind of sick of how kerrigan was kind of the focus in multiple campaigns and this is like her 3rd campaign. I know starcraft's original zerg campaign ended with her sort of cleaning the kitchen that is char while the overmind went out and did his job by going to aiur and feeding his little zergling kiddies while kerrigan was left to do what she did. I don't even get a lot of the point of the first zerg campaign. They make such a big deal about kerrigan turning and her training and then she basically gets zasz killed with her idiocy and then we never have to hear her rebellious little b*tch mouth again till the expansion. Then she manipules the protoss and the UED. I can get the first manipulation even if the protoss lost on shakuras it would've hurt her quite a bit. I can even get the UED manipulation which kind of had a mixed success but ended with her getting owned. Then for some odd reason it's like everybody wants to join forces with kerrigan to fight off the UED even though a kerrigan end would be worse than any UED ending could ever be.

I mean let's look at the multiple things they could've done. They could've possibly killed off the overmind and let the UED have the psi disrupter if only because they weren't controlling the overmind too well. They could've attacked kerrigan at any time esp. when you had to show up and gloat in front of zeratul not once but twice. You basically betray the guy multiple times, gloat to his face and the last time you get him to kill his leader. How do you know he wouldn't just strike out and kill you? Zeratul was like the most powerful character in brood war to my knowledge or at least gameplay-wise. You're a zergified ghost sure but you're trying to taunt a stealth assassin that killed the 2nd overmind and at least zasz? What makes me mad is that kerrigan's plans are flawed and yet they always work. I mean you know because after betraying the dominion and protoss she doesn't need them again during the final attack right? Except she does because she needs to kill off the 2nd overmind. I also love how they never explained how raszagal got infested or whatever without masters of stealth like the dark templar ever noticing esp. given shakuras's unknown location means kerrigan had a super limited window of opportunity with which to corrupt raszagal without any sort of attention being drawn or evidence found that anything happened. I'm mad because kerrigan decides to attack her allies after they take back korhal and somehow this is a good plan to face your enemy on char which has massive power over the zerg with the 2nd overmind, the UED and if things made sense at all your allies of convenience could've shown up just as the 2nd overmind was about to die and flanked you and forced you into being surrounded by the UED, the dominion, the protoss, raynor's raiders and the UED's zerg all the while struggling to keep control over the zerg you had (note that the dark templar are the only ones that can kill the overmind so essentially kerrigan couldn't even kill off the overmind to end the enemy zerg threat if her allies decided to attack her). Sure they might be allies of convenience but how is everything working so well for kerrigan? Not to mention when the 2nd overmind dies and she struggles to regain control during the confusion zeratul could've just snuck up on her and stabbed her in the back. How hard would that have been? Then the zerg would've been nearly leaderless given all the dead cerebrates and 2 dead overminds. Not only that but she throws herself into the biggest tactically bad position with her infested platform during the last zerg mission in brood war. 3 large fleets of enemies with the UED, protoss and the dominion all went against her platform which wasn't terribly well defended at all and somehow as some unknown cerebrate you manage to just fight off all these baddies yourself after kerrigan put you in the biggest idiotic situation ever to fight in. Finally after kerrigan has shown she's the dominant power she takes a nap with her zerg for 4 years so that her enemies can lick their wounds and plot her downfall or something. I just can't like kerrigan and what she did to the story. It feels like she hijacked the whole story.

My biggest problem with brood war is that everything is about kerrigan and things work too well for her. She is a stupid enemy with even dumber opponents. Her enemies had like no plans themselves of what to do when she inevitably betrayed them, they were lead around like freaking sheep and all her flawed plans work too well.

Even worse starcraft 2: WoL's focus was once again about keeping kerrigan alive regardless of what happened. If we spent the entire WoL campaign doing essentially stuff that will be rendered worthless in HotS i will most likely stop giving two f*cks about starcraft's story even if i play it till the bitter and probably disappointing end. I am not pleased at all with another campaign focusing mostly about kerrigan. I mean raynor, the UED, mengsk and his dominion, the overminds and zerg, the hybrids and various protoss all got attention but it was never as vast, all-encompassing and annoying as kerrigan's during the entire game. Somebody just put a bullet in her brain and end her already. I've seen other characters die for much less and be infinitely smarter and more useful. R.I.P. stukov, tassadar (not totally dead but sorta), zasz and other characters i once loved. I just really hate kerrigan. I stand by the opinion that kerrigan's campaign in brood war is where things just got completely stupid. It's even worse that people don't seem to see this. I just i dunno. Whatever.

Anyway that's my rant. I have more on it but they better fix this. Please just b*tchslap kerrigan around a little if for no other reason than to put a smile on my face. Her manipulations just seem so annoying and considering how powerless she is in HotS she'll probably do it all again. As if all the untold murder mengsk has commited on a grand scale with manipulation of the zerg is justification for her doing the same except worse multiple times. God i hate her. Please kill off kerrigan when she's no longer useful.

------------------------------------------

While choice can be fun in games i find that often times we never hear mention of the events again. For instance it'd be like after choosing to side with tosh or kill him or siding with the colony or killing the infested people on it you never hear of tosh or the colony ever again or hanson/mention from selendis about the going's on of that one planet or raynor's choices. There are no lasting consequences that carry over to the next game through story uploads or anything and that'd just make the overall ending that more confusing for everybody and would be hard for the blizzard team to work on. This is a problem with many games like even in kotor 2 characters couldn't recall a lot of events and the beginning of the game is the same regardless what you chose to do in kotor 1 supposedly. Having events that mean nothing after the first game downplays the significance of anything that happens. I mean at the end of WoL it feels like only some of the rebellion missions (but not really any of them), the artifact, prophecy/protoss and invasion of char missions have any significance and it still probably won't matter. I'm sure that mission where you choose to blow up the infested platform or flood the nydus caves with lava will have no significance. It just saddens me to think most of WoL will mean nothing or be rendered worthless after all the trouble that everybody went through with the campaign with the player or the characters themselves. I dunno.

Kerrigan is probably the focus of the Zerg campaigns because she has a personal motivation and an interesting backstory about being a hero we knew turned by the Zerg into a monster. This makes her more relatable and IMO interesting than if it were just an overmind creature acting on imperatives to feed and survive.

I never played Broodwar. But I didn't really feel like I was fighting the zerg that much in WoL. More often I seemed to be fighting Protoss and Dominion forces. Its quite balanced IMO. Then the story is broken down into several arcs. Only the Protoss missions have Kerrigans role emphasised. Its also only later that we find out that the Moebius missions were very important in taking down Kerrigan. At the same time there are seperate arcs for helping to save the colonists in the chaos of the zerg invasion, aiding the rogue spectre (or Nova if you're me) and undermining Mensk by revealing his role on Tarsonis. None of these are really about Kerrigan. I haven't finished the campaign but I know how it ends. Unless there are some missions before you take her down that means only a fraction of the story was about Kerrigan.

I can understand that man that you want a character to relate to but just trust me. Play brood war and play the zerg missions in it. You'll understand how dumb that campaign is when you break it down. I mean raynor, tassadar, phoenix, mengsk and whoever else pretty much just let kerrigan do whatever. They could've handled that campaign better somehow. I mean honestly at the end of the UED campaign they seriously could've won. Raynor could've just joined up with the UED or something. They seemed to take in duran so easily without knowledge of him. I mean they probably weren't the best good guys ever but the UED mostly just wanted to gain control of the koprulu sector. Honestly considering what's been going on with mengsk and the zerg you could do a lot worse. The protoss probably wouldn't like that but they were hidden on shakuras anyway so why would they care. Thing is the more you break it down the dumber the zerg campaign in brood war sounds. I think they just had to do a campaign for all 3 races and that limited some things. The UED could've pretty much won the game after their campaign and then the zerg pretty much could've won the game after their's. They add this new enemy at the end of brood war if you unlock a special mission about some zerg/protoss hybrid race being made. Honestly i think starcraft 2: WoL could've done worse with story-telling. People sometimes made fun of it without realizing how stupid brood war was and that the end of brood war introduced the whole zerg/protoss hybrid. I mean sure kerrigan was the focal point for 'wings of liberty' with her life meaning and the original overmind was actually a mind-slave controlled by some bigger bad guy but at least there were some plot twists. I mean honestly that just worked with the whole hybrid crap they introduced at the end of the zerg campaign in brood war anyway.

I think most people do like the story of the original and that's ok i guess. I liked the hyperion interaction a little and the news reports. I mean i'd prefer to go out and feel like i'm impacting things. There are things nobody liked in starcraft 1 you never hear as much in starcraft 2. Remember how much people hated how characters were basically a unit with more hp and better attack and if they died you'd auto-lose a mission? The missions with this type of thing going on are much fewer and farther between. Sure they exist but even when they do the characters actually have abilities.

I honestly think as far as the game goes sometimes people would prefer a lot of the stuff from starcraft 1 with the physics and engine, graphics, ease of play, etc. from starcraft 2. I think i might actually enjoy playing a sort of decade and a half or so anniversary of starcraft and playing a similar campaign with things updated and possibly some new cinematics. People would probably rage at the nostalgia wrecking even if starcraft wasn't that good and they forgot all the things about it they hated (like stupid A.I. and the worst problem of all time esp. in older rts's being pathfinding for units).

For me the only things i hate to see go are reavers (replaced by collossus which sound cool but i hate game-wise), science vessels (mostly for the emp ability and defense matrix which is better than a ton of ghosts having emp), lockdown on ghosts (immobilizes mechanical units and prevents them doing stuff) and probably defilers. The brood lord and swarm hosts seem infinitely more annoying than the previous versions in starcraft and brood war (guardians and lurkers respectively). In fact they are so annoying i kind of fear for protss in 'heart of the swarm'. I think things got a bit fixed for the protoss in some ways in the upcoming game but overall the protoss race didn't get much of anything new going from WoL to HotS. The zerg got some powerful new units and the terran at least at some point could do a fully mechanized army effectively. Protoss had some harass unit for killing workers, a mothership core (i don't even know what this is good for anymore) and some final tier massive battleship to go along with the carrier. Oddly enough this final tier battleship was a massive unit killer even though it was supposed to counter mutalisks pretty hard and do splash damage originally. They also make it do crappier damage against ground last i heard and it only does good damage vs massive air units of which there are only like 3 or 4 and only like one per race. Gee that'll help. I suppose it has extreme range and can snipe units but for that cost and no splash i should hope it kills all massive units well esp. with the nerf to void rays supposedly in the latest patch.

I dunno i'm wanting to like HotS but i think i won't like playing protoss in it.

Other than all this i hope we get some more casters as long as they have a use. Just a caster that doesn't suck would be nice.

Holy crap, I just now realized that Reavers werent in SC2 lol. Im actually disappointed at how many of the old units didnt make into SC2.


I actually really liked the UED. When I played Starcraft before SC2 was announced I always simply ended on the UED campaign because I liked them and I just found the final Zerg campaign to be horrible

I never got really good at starcraft 2 and while they added plenty of interesting new units (immortals, sorta collossus, banshees which sound awesome, roaches, brood lords, etc.) they cut a few really cool ones. Collossus sound cool but they're kind of stupid in gameplay. I'd rather use high templar.

Honestly i'd like a focus on casters. I played the starcraft 2 mod of the starcraft 1 campaign and it got pretty freaking intense and i have to say i constantly had to use ghosts and their lockdown ability as well as a couple emp's from science vessels to knock out energy on wraiths or battlecruisers or to use it as cloack detection. On the last mission i basically advanced with an infantry army with goliath support using lockdown on all the siege tanks and battlecruisers and it worked pretty hardcore actually as in starcraft 1 terran had pretty poor anti-ground with air units and with cloak detection spider mines can be seen easily. Also since siege tanks had splash but did more damage in a small area and took longer to reload and ghosts could be massed easier i could just mass lockdown my enemy. Hehe maybe i should've bought a couple nukes to use vs entrenched positions too. That would've been funny though probably not needed. I think i was able to beat that mission the final terran mission of the mod without use of ghosts.

Then there was the zerg campaign of the mod and i couldn't beat it on hard difficulty because i had to deal with that stupid dark templar mission where if one dark templar escapes the map you auto-lose and the game just won't save.

In starcraft 1 and brood war the only terran race that ever did anything that was game winning was the UED. Sure they should be the most powerful coming from earth but the whole psi-disruptor thing and the controlling of the overmind. Not to mention they basically would've accomplished their mission at the end of their campaign if everybody just let this crap slide and stayed away from kerrigan. Stukov deserved better though. You'd think dugalle and stukov could've talked out their differences instead of forcing an elite team to storm the psi disruptor compound killing people in the process. We find out on stukov's deathbed that duran our newest recruit from a group we didn't fully know was probably not a good guy and that stukov our long time friend of dugalle that was ordered to be killed was actually the good guy here. Then zerg start overrunning the place while it was simultaneously wired to self-destruct meaning we probably did the wrong thing. Course we somehow pull out on top of the zerg for once and get the psi-disruptor saved. Course after all our work the combined idiot forces of mengsk, raynor, kerrigan's zerg and the protoss kill it off on like mission 2 of the zerg brood war campaign. Ugh i really hate the zerg brood war campaign story-wise.

Thankfully in starcraft 2 amazingly the xel naga artifacts we all recover and use on char turn kerrigan human and stop the swarm in its tracks. I just wish her life wasn't so dependent on the fate of the galaxy. Can't raynor just kill her already? Can't he just move on? I've loved women i knew more than he knew her that basically broke off contact with me that i've had to move on from. It's been 4 years dude! She's been infested, used your feelings against you, to your knowledge up to the end of WoL you don't even know that infested terrans can turn back to normal and she's killed billions without a thought. She's turned into a worse monster than mengsk or the confederacy ever was. At least mengsk lost his entire family to a butchering assassin which as it turns out in some lore may have been kerrigan all along. So it could've been somewhat justified what he did to her on tarsonis all along even if she was brainwashed to do this. Oh and korhal was nuked into a wasteland which after 4 years from brood war magically gets fixed somewhat. Go figure. Course mengsk also sacrifices billions for revenge against the confederacy and it turns out with his big speech he's just a power mad psychopath. That said he still doesn't hold a candle to the mindless slaughter that kerrigan does.

Also she's turned into a nasty goth chick basically times like 100 . I could make fun of kerrigan's and raynor's relationship endlessly and i probably will if anybody wants to read it.

So yeah my opinion of a good ending of 'wings of liberty' would've been kerrigan ends up not being important, raynor puts a bullet in her brain, we wipe out the remaining zerg, build some psi-disruptors in case the zerg have a chance (since we sorta have the technology), raynor settles down with hanson and proceeds to bone her brains out and the story ends. Ok i kid somewhat. Either way raynor needs to move on and i still wish he killed kerrigan. I would've prefered to see zeratul kill kerrigan but at this point chances are they'd have a duel with multiple people killing kerrigan. Course i don't think this'll happen. If kerrigan does die at some point they'll probably try to force sympathy from us and it'll take a lot from me to even give a f*ck.

---------------------------------

Anyway sorry for derailing the original topic of this thread from the OP but starcraft's story infuriates me in some parts and yet some people praise brood war's campaign endlessly.

I don't know the sort of upgrades she will get aesthetically or if certain powers from choices you make in the game can effect her look somewhat though it would be cool. I'll still get 'heart of the swarm' if i have the money. I'm kind of interested to see her psychic powers or what powers she can get over the swarm. I think you can make her more zergy and infested or go the ghost path. Both sound interesting and if nothing else confusing/misdirecting the enemy sounds fun as well as possibly corrupting them. Maybe a power to pop up broodlings/zerglings/banelings or maybe we can have her use an ability to turn enemy marines into infested terrans. Though limited in the extreme as an ability it'd be really fun to do.

My biggest problem of centering the game around kerrigan not just story-wise (because i hate her there) is gameplay-wise. I mean to my knowledge she's present on every single zerg mission. Do you guys have any idea how bad that could be? Sure she'll have abilities and everything and it'll give her force a stupid amount of firepower/strength but it means if she dies even once during a mission due to some mistake made you have to restart the whole mission. Also as far as a campaign would go this would be a complete and utter defeat for you (kerrigan's dead, the galaxy is screwed and her mission to regain power is instantly nullified) regardless of what mission you were on even if you were on some ice world that doesn't matter much. Do you know how embarassing that'd be? I'm sure it happens but still. This is something everybody hated about the original starcraft and brood war. Some people just threw hero units into a corner of their base so they didn't die. This equals babysitting and that's not fun. Chances are you'll just have to do the mission again in 'heart of the swarm' and that'll be it because a campaign restart would just be brutal.

I believe they've already explained that, much like in the final mission for Wings of Liberty, Kerrigans "soul" or conscience is part of the swarm, so she can regrow a new body if her current one is destroyed. Meaning you can train a new kerrigan body at the nearest zerg spawning pool. So you won't lose the mission if Kerrigan "dies", as long as you don't lose the zerg spawning structures she is essentially immortal. You're expected to use her as an aggressive unit rather than keep her in the base,

I got the feeling in these two trailers that they more or less imply Kerrigan does return to her Queen of Blades form. Towards the end of both you see Kerrigan with light purple glowing eyes and veins. One is a flashback and the other looks like it shows her being transformed or having the same features without it being a flashback. Also, as an aside, they seem to have changed her infected look so that she has no green colourations and doesn't look like shes rotting; plus purple instead of orange. Not sure how that would mesh with the abilities you unlock during the campaign; the ghost ones especially. Maybe its only very late in the campaign that this happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlQ2tMQzg80&list=UUKy1dAqELo0zrOtPkf0eTMw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6rWf1Pdqqw&list=UUKy1dAqELo0zrOtPkf0eTMw&index=4

Oh, BTW, zerg are awesome. I mean they owned those Dominion guys. Don't know why defending a statue was so important mind. Class trailer.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
I got the feeling in these two trailers that they more or less imply Kerrigan does return to her Queen of Blades form. Towards the end of both you see Kerrigan with light purple glowing eyes and veins. One is a flashback and the other looks like it shows her being transformed or having the same features without it being a flashback. Also, as an aside, they seem to have changed her infected look so that she has no green colourations and doesn't look like shes rotting; plus purple instead of orange. Not sure how that would mesh with the abilities you unlock during the campaign; the ghost ones especially. Maybe its only very late in the campaign that this happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlQ2tMQzg80&list=UUKy1dAqELo0zrOtPkf0eTMw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6rWf1Pdqqw&list=UUKy1dAqELo0zrOtPkf0eTMw&index=4

Oh, BTW, zerg are awesome. I mean they owned those Dominion guys. Don't know why defending a statue was so important mind. Class trailer.

Meh why didn't they use thors or marauders or anything? Not only that but what idiotic viking goes into ground mode to do anything but harass a weak spot. Most people don't even use vikings in ground mode. In fact unless fighting corrupters or brood lords it should've just stayed up in the air. They probably should've kept fighting the leviathans. Banshees are awesome though even though they only really died in that one trailer. Why do i never see them in cloak mode? I mean it may sound stupid at first but a camouflaged look with slight visual distortions could make sense as cloaked. Obviously the terran player here must've been a noob ;P. I dunno.

This might sound like going on a bit and I actually feel a bit silly that I went on at length before without realizing the obvious. They would not put the Queen of Blades on the front cover of the game and as the picture of the launch release if she didn't. Pretty definitive.