Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey all, looking for some critiques on the following proposed Eldar list. I've only played Marines so far, so no experience with anything else. Will appreciate the advice from any seasoned Eldar players out there.

Farseer Council
Farseer: Jetbike, Spirit Stone, Singing Spear, Powers: Fortune, Guide, Doom
3- Warlocks: Jetbikes, Singing Spears, 1 each of: Conceal, Destructor, Embolden

[uWarlord[/u]
1- Farseer: Spirit Stone, Rune of Warding, Singing Spear, Powers: Fortune, Guide
1- Warlock: Spiritseer, Conceal

Troops
10- Guardians: Eldar Missile Launcher, Warlock with Embolden, Conceal
10- Guardians: Eldar Missile Launcher, Warlock with Embolden, Conceal
5- Rangers

Fast Attack
5- Warp Spiders: Exarch w/ Spinneret and Powerblades, Surprise Assault

Heavies
2- Wraithlords: Starcannon, Scatter Laser, dual flamers
3- War Walkers: Bright Lance, Eldar Missile Launcher

My thought is to keep the Warlord in the rear with Wraithlords and War Walkers, trying to stay in casting range of the Rangers as well to Guide/Fortune those units as needed, as much as possible. Send out the Jetbikes and Warp Spiders to harass/distract the enemy and try to keep them from advancing on my gunline. Use the Jetbike Farseer to Doom units that my gunline is shooting at as well. Guardians camp objectives and plink missiles as needed.

Unfortunatly the bright lances on the war walkers are one of the worst options to put on them. Better if you did dual EML or just went with the typical dual scatter lasers. The Wraithlords are okay. Drop either conceal or embolden off of the guardian squads. Since you an only use one a turn choose which one you think is needed. Surprise assaut is useless now because warp spiders can deep strike already. Withdraw would be nice but it is expensive. Might want to think about losing the exarch and just adding another spider to the squad or using the points to upgrade your rangers to pathfinders.I'd get rid of conceal since hopefully youll have a rerollable 4+ invulnerable save. So 5+ cover is not needed. The thing you'll learn about Eldar compared to Marines is that we are a finesse army. Every unit has a purpose and others help cover for other units weaknesses. Farseers are key because they give the army needed boosts. You will have to find out the units that can complement each other. Unfortunatly you will not be able to run the Eldar anywhere near the like the Space Marines and expect good results.

Thanks much for the advice, a few questions regarding it:

1. Why are Bright Lances a bad choice? It looks like they should be great for tank killing (land raiders, necron shenannigans)
2. Does the list and tactics as I've sort of laid them out sound like something that would function well with an Eldar army? I haven't played against them yet either, so I'm "theory-hammering" until I get a solid idea to buy/build my models.

It's not unfortunate. Eldar are just as good as vanilla marines in 6th. Now comparing them to grey knights or space wolves... A little tougher. Guardians aren't that great. BS3 just sucks. It makes the guns not worth buying. I think that one of the best units they have is war walkers. I know it's expensive, but guided war walkers with scatter lasers are worth the points and cash!!! If I were you I'd run 9 war walkers with dual scatter lasers. Youll still have plenty of points left over. I'd always use one or two squads of fire dragons with their mandatory wave serpents. I personally like to mix the troops up using dire avengers in wave serpents and pathfinders on the back line. Aegis defense lines are really helpful to the walkers and the rangers / pathfinders if your board doesn't have ideal cover. I'd take to farseers for sure. Warp spiders at ok. I like using them in conjunction with swooping hawks to take out elite units or he squads that ate approaching my line mid game. Pretty much, I play defensively early on, after all my deep strikers are on board, I start to make my plans for taking the objectives. Use melee to protect the back line. Scorpions are good, harlequins are really good, all the melee can be good if used properly. Remember that you will pretty much always hit first and have great WS, but the low strength can take your damage output down. Special weapons that increase strength are your friend. Biting blades, whatever.

If you are used to marines, heres how i feel about playing bith. (i play space wolf, eldar, imperial guard and tyranid) Just remember that eldar doesn't have the staying power that marine armies have. Both armies are large codexes with lotsnof options for all slots (troop, heavy support, etc.) and seem Almost similar at forst glance. It justseems that eldar are faster and maribes are tougher, but its just not that simple. The way these armies actually play, marines are jack of all trades, master of none. In this regard, eldar are the exact opposite. They have a very specific answer for everything. If you can control the flow of combat and use your army properly, they are amazing. To do this, you really have to deploy smart, hit the right targets from the right distance, use cover as much as humanly possible. Using their melee squads properly is also clutch. You need to play defensively and make sure you get the charge most if not all of the time (easier to do in 6th since you can measure distances whenever you want). also, kill enemy blast and cover ignoring heavy support early. It will eat you up! Good luck with the eldar my friend. Don't get down if you loose a few games. Deployment tactics and play style are much different than marines. I think they are a veterans army. Hard to play, requiring great finesse, but ultimately satisfying to play with.

 Homeskillet wrote:
1. Why are Bright Lances a bad choice? It looks like they should be great for tank killing (land raiders, necron shenannigans)

They wouldn't be as efficient as one might think. 80 points, 2 HP, open-topped and AV 10. Too fragile and too expensive. If lLand Raiders are a problem, you might want to consider Swooping Hawks. They hit automatically during assault, and their grenades glance on 2+ and pen on 5+. Six or seven of those bad boys will reliably strip any vehicle of its hull points. Slightly less durable than War Walkers, but way more efficient and reliable.

Also. Surprise Assault-power is rendered moot in 6th. No need for it.

 Homeskillet wrote:
Hey all, looking for some critiques on the following proposed Eldar list. I've only played Marines so far, so no experience with anything else. Will appreciate the advice from any seasoned Eldar players out there.

Farseer Council
Farseer: Jetbike, Spirit Stone, Singing Spear, Powers: Fortune, Guide, Doom
3- Warlocks: Jetbikes, Singing Spears, 1 each of: Conceal, Destructor, Embolden

Dont take more powers than your farseer can cast. I would just get fortune and doom, as the guide is meh. Grab runes of witnessing to keep em alive, and move runes of warding to this seer. Conceal does nothing to a seer council on bikes(your invul save is better, so is armor, and you get a 5+ for moving). Take enhance instead, and dont take a spear on the dude with destructor(he should shoot this instead).

[uWarlord[/u]
1- Farseer: Spirit Stone, Rune of Warding, Singing Spear, Powers: Fortune, Guide
1- Warlock: Spiritseer, Conceal

Drop these for more warlocks on jetbikes. A mix of destructor and spears.

Troops
10- Guardians: Eldar Missile Launcher, Warlock with Embolden, Conceal
10- Guardians: Eldar Missile Launcher, Warlock with Embolden, Conceal
5- Rangers

Guardian loadout is illegal. Can only take a single power on warlocks. I would drop the warlocks altogether and just run 10 bodies with a scatter laser. If you really want a lock to babysit the lords, take embolden and just deploy in cover.Missiles are okay, but BS3 hurts.

Fast Attack
5- Warp Spiders: Exarch w/ Spinneret and Powerblades, Surprise Assault

Surprise assault is useless in 6th, drop it.

Heavies
2- Wraithlords: Starcannon, Scatter Laser, dual flamers
3- War Walkers: Bright Lance, Eldar Missile Launcher

Scatter lasers or EML's on the walkers. Dont mix them. Wraithlords are the only decent platforms for bright lances in the codex. Give them missiles/lances and scatter lasers for the walkers. Covers your heavy support bases.

My thought is to keep the Warlord in the rear with Wraithlords and War Walkers, trying to stay in casting range of the Rangers as well to Guide/Fortune those units as needed, as much as possible. Send out the Jetbikes and Warp Spiders to harass/distract the enemy and try to keep them from advancing on my gunline. Use the Jetbike Farseer to Doom units that my gunline is shooting at as well. Guardians camp objectives and plink missiles as needed.

Decent skeleton of squads, just need to overhaul the loadouts.

Make the warwalkers double scatter laser.

Warwalkers are durable if they have a rerollable 5++ or 4++ save. Cast fortune and guide on them every turn and watch opponents disintegrate. But to do that, you'll have to dump the seer council.

What I have seem done a lot at 2K is to bring Eldrad and a generic farseer. Eldrad babysits two squad of warwalkers who dispense scattery death and the other farseer joins the council. Obviously in this case, you have to choose gunline strat or council strat.

Ditch the eldar missile launchers and get bright lances. Or scatter lasers. Or a weapon that does something. Missile launchers suck in 6th.

Remember that you can see double LR at 1500 pts so I could certainly have at least three bright lances, two of them on BS 4 models.

Great, thanks for the help everyone! Can't wait to get it all built and get it on the table.

one thing for the future

You can not field the seer council less than 3.

have fun playing eldar, they are great army but very tough to play

I've tweaked the list a bit after suggestions, and thought I'd eliminate one of the HQs to maximize boots on the ground at 1500 pts. The same strategy still applies: distract/harass with the jetbikes and warp spiders, shoot everything else from across the board with guided warwalkers/wraithlords/rangers as allowable. Hopefully the Pinning ability of the Spinneret and the Rangers slow the enemy advance, in conjunction with the Jetbikes running willy nilly. Once again, critiques are welcome:

HQ
1- Farseer: Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Singing Spear, Fortune, Guide
3- Warlocks: all Singing Spears, one Spiritseer, one with Embolden

Troops
10- Guardians: Eldar Missile Launcher
10- Guardians: Eldar Missile Launcher
8- Rangers
7- Guardian Jetbikes: Warlock with Singing Spear and Embolden, 2 Shuriken Cannons

Fast Attack
5- Warp Spiders: Exarch with Spinneret Rifle and Powerblades

Heavy Support
2- Wraithlords: Starcannon, Scatter Laser, dual Flamers
3- War Walkers: dual Bright Lances on all

Thanks in advance for the help!

That list looks solid. You just need to give the War Walkers dual scatter lasers and the wraithlords should have BL/EML combination. The BL are much better on the lords as they are BS4.

-----

HQ
1- Farseer: Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Singing Spear, Fortune, Guide
3- Warlocks: all Singing Spears, one Spiritseer, one with Embolden

Troops
10- Guardians: Eldar Missile Launcher
10- Guardians: Eldar Missile Launcher
8- Rangers
7- Guardian Jetbikes: Warlock with Singing Spear and Embolden, 2 Shuriken Cannons

Fast Attack
5- Warp Spiders: Exarch with Spinneret Rifle and Powerblades

Heavy Support
2- Wraithlords: Starcannon, Scatter Laser, dual Flamers
3- War Walkers: dual Bright Lances on all

Well, it needs improvement.
Small Seer Councils don't cut it, same goes for the Warspiders.
Warwalkers should have scatter lasers.

I'd take a Farseer with guide and doom, and an Avatar. Otherwise, the Guardians would eventually run away after a few casualties. Moreover, I'd take Pathfinders instead of Rangers, 5 are enough.

After more suggestions, I've put together an alternate list with a slightly different strategy. Let me know if you all think the previous one was better, or if this new build is substantially more effective.

HQ
1- Eldrad
1- Farseer: Jetbike, Singing Spear, Spirit Stone, Fortune and Doom

Troops
10- Guardians: EML
10- Guardians: EML
8- Rangers
6- Guardian Jetbikes: 2 Shuriken Cannons

Fast Attack
5- Warp Spiders: Exarch with Spinneret Rifle

Heavy Support
2- Wraithlord: Bright Lance, EML, dual Flamers
3- War Walkers: dual Scatter Lasers

With the addition of Eldrad and another Farseer, my thought was obviously to keep Eldrad in the backfield possibly with the Rangers/Walkers/Wraithlords. The Farseer joins the Jetbikes. Eldrad Guides/Fortunes as necessary to inflict maximum damage with the gunline. The farseer fortunes his unit and the spiders as necessary to stay alive, or dooms the units the gunline is shooting if possible. Once again, help from you salty Eldar vets would be great as to changes, or just whether one of my lists would be significantly more effective than the other.

Nobody has any ideas?

Heavy support is looking perfect. I would probably drop your warp spiders, drop your rangers to 5 and upgrade to pathfinders, add warlocks with embolden to your guardians, and a warlock on a bike with embolden to your GJBs.

I could use some more advice from the Dakka-ites on this. I've played two games so far, and won the first handily but against someone who was also using his DE for the first time. My second game was against a Daemon player who ran a screamer/flamer list w/ Fateweaver and all that nastiness, and he creamed me bad. I did change my list slightly against the Daemons, dropping 3 Dire Avengers so I could put a Spiritseer with the Guardians so my Wraiths didn't lock up on me. Please let me know if my list needs tweaking, or if it was more likely my playstyle (or if I'm just screwed in general due to Eldar being weak ATM). Thanks in advance!

HQ
Eldrad
Farseer- Jetbike, Runes of Witnessing, Singing Spear, Spirit Stones, Fortune, Doom

Fast Attack
5-Warp Spiders- Exarch w/ Spinneret Rifle

Troops
6- Guardian Jetbikes- 2 Shuriken Cannons
10- Guardians- Eldar Missile Launcher
10- Dire Avengers- Exarch w/ dual Catapults, Bladestorm
5- Rangers

Heavy Support
2- Wraithlords- Bright Lance, EML, dual flamer
3- War Walkers- dual Scatter Lasers

I feel that over the course of many iterations the focus of your army has got a bit confused, you've mismatched fast and slow elements a bit. Remember Eldar's strength lies in unit synergy.

You're spending a hell of a lot of points on Farseers (also, Eldrad has both runes already and they don't stack). I don't see anything in the army that warrants a second fast farseer to Fortune or Guide.

I'd say either load up on bikes with two bike farseers and/or a large jetseer council or keep everyone on foot and take an Avatar and Eldrad and lots of foot guardians. If you take an ADL with the latter you don't need to play aggressive, just sit back and guide/fortune stuff.

If you are going to take a Spider Exarch with 5 men take him with the Dual Spinners, the ONE target that the rifle is more efficient than dual spinners is against is 2+ sv guys and you're paying a premium for it. Personally I like Powerblades (which coincidentally will yield more 2+ sv kills than the Rifle) and Withdraw on the Exarch, makes the spiders a hell of a lot more annoying and will help take heat off the rest of your army while your opponent tries to chase them down.

Thanks for the advice, I guess my thoughts on the points you made were this:

1. Runes of Witnessing: I had thought that was for each farseer's test. wanted to make sure their powers got off
2. As to the fast and slow units: I had wanted the bikes to Doom the units my gunline would be shooting at, and distract the enemy from my gunline. Same goes for the spiders. You wouldn't recommend this tactic as an Eldar player?
3. As to the Spider Exarch: after these few games, I'm definitely inclined to agree that the one AP1 shot wouldn't be as effective as powerblades. The whole warp spider squad was wiped out by attacks by 3-4 daemons all with power weapons in one phase of assault

If you still think this won't work well in the long run, can you give me any advice as to how to tweak the list? For now I don't have much more as far as models go. I've got a few warlocks, another squad of rangers, and that's about it as far as what I'm not already using.

Try to use the spider as more of a harassment squad, and light vehicle hunting. The powerblades and withdraw are nice if they do get into close combat but its not really where they shine.

 Homeskillet wrote:
Thanks for the advice, I guess my thoughts on the points you made were this:

1. Runes of Witnessing: I had thought that was for each farseer's test. wanted to make sure their powers got off
2. As to the fast and slow units: I had wanted the bikes to Doom the units my gunline would be shooting at, and distract the enemy from my gunline. Same goes for the spiders. You wouldn't recommend this tactic as an Eldar player?
3. As to the Spider Exarch: after these few games, I'm definitely inclined to agree that the one AP1 shot wouldn't be as effective as powerblades. The whole warp spider squad was wiped out by attacks by 3-4 daemons all with power weapons in one phase of assault

If you still think this won't work well in the long run, can you give me any advice as to how to tweak the list? For now I don't have much more as far as models go. I've got a few warlocks, another squad of rangers, and that's about it as far as what I'm not already using.

1. Correct. I think Kaiser mixed up Warding & Witnessing; Warding hinders the enemy but 2 don't stack. It's allright to take the Witnessing to make sure you get that Fortune up. You certainly arent light on psychic powers for a 1500 list.
2. Good idea. But the only units that will really profit from doom in your list are the Catapults of the Jetbikes, Guardians and Avengers. The rest is s6 or above and they will profit less from Doom as they wound easily.
3. The exarch is still worth it if you take Dual Spinners: for less than the price of 2 Spiders you get 4 shots at BS5. Withdraw and Power Blades are optional but I wouldn't bother with it if it were to buff a small squad. It would probably have been a waste of points if you were assaulted by those Daemons.

Thanks, so I'm thinking dump the jetbike farseer to put more boots on the ground? Or keep him but maybe roll for some Rulebook powers?