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The Thunderfire Cannon requires a techmarine as a gunner... So two questions. If the techmarine is killed, does the Thunderfire become useless, or can it still shoot? And since a techmarine is required for a Thunderfire, if you take a Thunderfire, does the techmarine enable you to take the servitors as well given the techmarine becomes an IC once his cannon is destroyed?

If the techmarine is killed the cannon is removed. Check artillery on page 46

Fragile wrote:
If the techmarine is killed the cannon is removed. Check artillery on page 46

Ah, okay. Thanks, didn't notice that. What about the servitors?

There are none.

The Thunderfire Cannon unit entry doesn't give the option to take them, and even if you interpret the presence of TFC's techmarine as allowing a unit of Servitors to be taken (which some folks do), the Techmarine can't join them until after the Thunderfire is dead, because he doesn't become an IC until then.

 Mannahnin wrote:
There are none.

The Thunderfire Cannon unit entry doesn't give the option to take them, and even if you interpret the presence of TFC's techmarine as allowing a unit of Servitors to be taken (which some folks do), the Techmarine can't join them until after the Thunderfire is dead, because he doesn't become an IC until then.

That's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure. Thank you.

 Mannahnin wrote:
the Techmarine can't join them until after the Thunderfire is dead, because he doesn't become an IC until then.

I thought that the Techmarine from the Thunderfire Cannon entry in the Space Marine Codex is just a Character. If he is an IC, I apologise for my ignorance. However, if he (or any other Character) that is part of a unit becomes unjoined (take that English language!), I don't think that a Character suddenly becomes an INDEPENDENT Character by being alone unless it is specified in their Codex entry. Is this the case?

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
the Techmarine can't join them until after the Thunderfire is dead, because he doesn't become an IC until then.

I thought that the Techmarine from the Thunderfire Cannon entry in the Space Marine Codex is just a Character. If he is an IC, I apologise for my ignorance. However, if he (or any other Character) that is part of a unit becomes unjoined (take that English language!), I don't think that a Character suddenly becomes an INDEPENDENT Character by being alone unless it is specified in their Codex entry. Is this the case?

The Techmarine gunner gains the IC rule if the artillery model is destroyed and he finds himself alone.

Actually the Tremaine gunner is not a character until after he gains the IC ruleonce the cannon is destroyed.

 DeathReaper wrote:
The Techmarine gunner gains the IC rule if the artillery model is destroyed and he finds himself alone.

Citation required.

Note, that the unit consists of a Techmarine Gunner, however the statline is for a Techmarine. Either way, he does not have the IC special rule in his list of rules.

The rules for the unit specifically state that he becomes an IC if the gun is destroyed.

Fragile wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The Techmarine gunner gains the IC rule if the artillery model is destroyed and he finds himself alone.

Citation required.

Note, that the unit consists of a Techmarine Gunner, however the statline is for a Techmarine. Either way, he does not have the IC special rule in his list of rules.

Page 73 Codex Space Marines.

Yes you can take servitors with a thunderfire cannon. the TFC entry says the crew is a techmarine. The entry for servitors says you can take one unit for every techmarine or master of the forge in your army. Nothing about that entry specifically states or implies that only the Techmarines in the elite slots count for servitors.

That said, its not a good idea because the techmarine will not be allowed to join the servitors so you have a 50% chance for your servitors to stand around and do nothing every turn.

CrowSplat wrote:
Yes you can take servitors with a thunderfire cannon. the TFC entry says the crew is a techmarine. The entry for servitors says you can take one unit for every techmarine or master of the forge in your army. Nothing about that entry specifically states or implies that only the Techmarines in the elite slots count for servitors.

That said, its not a good idea because the techmarine will not be allowed to join the servitors so you have a 50% chance for your servitors to stand around and do nothing every turn.

Actually it says the crew is a Techmarine Gunner, not a Techmarine.
Also there is the FAQ:

Page 138 – Servitors.
Change the first sentence to: “You may include one unit of Servitors for every Techmarine or Master of the Forge in your army. These units do not count against your HQ or Elites allowance.”

They don't take up HQ or Elite slots, because that's where the Master of the Forge and Techmarine are found. No mention of them not taking up Heavy Support slots where the Thunderfire is found. I think that more than implies the Techmarine Gunner is not eligible for Survitors.

But he is still a techmarime since he uses the same stat line and all the rules. My FLGS allows me to run random servitors since well they are slowed 1/2 the time anyways. If your club says its legal go with it, but it is a slim waste of points that never does anything most the time.

I'd rather set the techmarine in base contact with tfc but slightly in front of so it gets shot at first and you benifit from 2+ save

 grendel083 wrote:

CrowSplat wrote:
Yes you can take servitors with a thunderfire cannon. the TFC entry says the crew is a techmarine. The entry for servitors says you can take one unit for every techmarine or master of the forge in your army. Nothing about that entry specifically states or implies that only the Techmarines in the elite slots count for servitors.

That said, its not a good idea because the techmarine will not be allowed to join the servitors so you have a 50% chance for your servitors to stand around and do nothing every turn.

Actually it says the crew is a Techmarine Gunner, not a Techmarine.
Also there is the FAQ:

Page 138 – Servitors.
Change the first sentence to: “You may include one unit of Servitors for every Techmarine or Master of the Forge in your army. These units do not count against your HQ or Elites allowance.”

They don't take up HQ or Elite slots, because that's where the Master of the Forge and Techmarine are found. No mention of them not taking up
Heavy Support slots where the Thunderfire is found. I think that more than implies the Techmarine Gunner is not eligible for Survitors.

Yes but the stat line lists the model as just a Techmarine. And although the faq stating servitors don't take up an HQ or elite slot could imply that tfc's cannot take them, the exclusion is not specifically stated so there is enough evidence to justify being able to take them.


I believe there is enough evidence to justify playing it either way. I'm personally inclined to allow it as the only way it could be considered abusive or cheese would be using the servitors to get a couple of cheap plasma cannons or multi-meltas, but even then you would be better off using those points on something else.

I see plenty of evidence against, the only one for is it says Techmarine in the statline.
If the entry for Servitors is referring to unit entries then it's a definite No, as the unit is Thunderfire Cannon, not Techmarine.
The argument for is extremely weak at best.

I would say the statline is a pretty strong argument. There is no separate statline for a model called "Techmarine Gunner" therefore there is no model with such a name. It's that simple.

CrowSplat wrote:
I would say the statline is a pretty strong argument. There is no separate statline for a model called "Techmarine Gunner" therefore there is no model with such a name. It's that simple.

By that logic, you have a Thunderfire Cannon with no crew member to shoot it, since the unit comprises of a Techmarine Gunner, which apparently does not exist?

 grendel083 wrote:

CrowSplat wrote:
I would say the statline is a pretty strong argument. There is no separate statline for a model called "Techmarine Gunner" therefore there is no model with such a name. It's that simple.

By that logic, you have a Thunderfire Cannon with no crew member to shoot it, since the unit comprises of a Techmarine Gunner, which apparently does not exist?

Actually the TFC entry says "Each Thunderfire Cannon is crewed by a single Techmarine (See page 71 for special rules)" P. 73 Codex Space Marines.

P. 71 is the entry for Techmarine so a Techmarine is indeed the gunner for the artillery that is the TFC.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

CrowSplat wrote:
I would say the statline is a pretty strong argument. There is no separate statline for a model called "Techmarine Gunner" therefore there is no model with such a name. It's that simple.

By that logic, you have a Thunderfire Cannon with no crew member to shoot it, since the unit comprises of a Techmarine Gunner, which apparently does not exist?

Actually the TFC entry says "Each Thunderfire Cannon is crewed by a single Techmarine (See page 71 for special rules)" P. 73 Codex Space Marines.

P. 71 is the entry for Techmarine so a Techmarine is indeed the gunner for the artillery that is the TFC.

Yet when you purchase the unit, that's not what the unit composition says (page142).

while this topic is here, can you take a MotF as an HQ and then substitute him as the tech marine for a TFC?

 grendel083 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

CrowSplat wrote:
I would say the statline is a pretty strong argument. There is no separate statline for a model called "Techmarine Gunner" therefore there is no model with such a name. It's that simple.

By that logic, you have a Thunderfire Cannon with no crew member to shoot it, since the unit comprises of a Techmarine Gunner, which apparently does not exist?

Actually the TFC entry says "Each Thunderfire Cannon is crewed by a single Techmarine (See page 71 for special rules)" P. 73 Codex Space Marines.

P. 71 is the entry for Techmarine so a Techmarine is indeed the gunner for the artillery that is the TFC.

Yet when you purchase the unit, that's not what the unit composition says (page142).

Page 142 lists Bolster Defenses for the TFC unit yet when you look at the full page for the TFC it does not list Bolster Defenses, and page 73 even refers you to the techmarine page 71.

The reference to Techmarine Gunner in the force org list on page 142 refers to page 71 which is the Techmarine entry if you read full rules for the TFC on page 73.

Basically not all of the rules are within the Space Marine army list section. Some rules are within the Forces of the Space Marines section.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
while this topic is here, can you take a MotF as an HQ and then substitute him as the tech marine for a TFC?

Does it say that you can?

If not then you can not.

It all really depends on how you define the model. Is the model defined by the unit composition entry or by the stat line given?

Going off grendel083's logic, in a combat that had a Techmarine, a tfc and Trazyn the infinite, the Techmarine would not be affected by the emphatic obliterator if the tfc gunner was hit.

Saying the tfc crewman is indeed a Techmarine would make every other Techmarine in the combat take a hit.