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It is all in the title, which warcasters for each faction do you feel are best to run a large number of warjacks in their army, and how many 'jacks do you think they can safely run (assume the points total is between 25 and 35).

I feel that only the Protectorate can run more than 3 Jacks at that point level. Everyone else is 2-3 regardless of Caster.

For Protectorate, the Harbinger and Severius can run Jack heavy specifically, but its really the support units that let Protectorate run tons of Jacks.


Harbinger(with proper Choir and Vassal support) could run 4 Crusaders and the Avatar at 35 pts with her Tier list.

Protectorate in general. You can safely run at least 3 Heavies with any caster: Avatar + Sanctifier/Reclaimer + 1 Other.

Beyond that Amon, The Harbinger, eFeora & Severius (either) all bring something to the table with 'Jack heavy lists.

At 35pts you can fit in 4-5 Heavies with some casters without crippling the list, and probably keep a similar count across the board including lights with anyone.

That said you'd probably be better served by moderate 'Jack counts 2 Heavies + Light is fairly typical for my lists @35. Running 'Jack heavy at low points means you tend to rely on Crusaders and their slowness can be a liability in certain match ups.
EDIT:
You can also get really gimmicky with a list like this:

pSevvy -25pts
*Templar
*Templar
*Templar
*Min Choir
*Vassal
*Vassal
*Wracks

It's slow and one dimensional but most lists aren't packing enough anti-armor tech at 25pts to crack 1x ARM 23 + 2x ARM 21 heavies with enliven moves & choir support. It'll be hairy keeping things off the old man, who dies to stiff a breeze but if you can manage that you're golden. After upkeeps EoM and DW you'll still have 7 focus to hand out amongst the 'Jacks.

Tier 4 Mortenebra. Just about the only Cryx caster who can go Jack heavy.

Cygnar - Nemo, Haley can do it

Menoth - Harbinger, eFeora. I would not say Sevvy due to he wants his focus for spells.

(Note: I dont consider Cryx and Menoth Tossing DeathJack or avatar in every list with 2-3 Jacks and call them jack casters due to it)

eNemo and as many chargers as you can fit in for one awesome feat turn.

 Mordekiem wrote:
eNemo and as many chargers as you can fit in for one awesome feat turn.

Yes, yes, yes, and I cannot stress enough, yes. Granted, this isn't enough to make me play him, but the possibility is just so tempting sometimes.

 Spyder68 wrote:
Cygnar - Nemo, Haley can do it

Menoth - Harbinger, eFeora. I would not say Sevvy due to he wants his focus for spells.

(Note: I dont consider Cryx and Menoth Tossing DeathJack or avatar in every list with 2-3 Jacks and call them jack casters due to it)

Having access to self-sufficient 'Jacks is a big part of what lets a list run a lot of 'Jacks effectively. Some casters while not " 'Jack Casters" specifically are still going to wind up being in lists that are happy to have lots of 'Jacks simply on account of their access to other tools. You really can't take anything in this game in a Vaccuum.

Also while pSevvy likes having focus to cast spells, it's hardly the only way to run him. He's perfectly happy upkeeping Eye of Menoth & Defender's Ward and handing out the rest in focus. In fact lists of that style have done quite well in the tournament scene to my understanding. EoM + Choir 'Jack attacks are strong mojo and spending a focus to get an extra one, or making sure the one you get hits via boosting is often of similar or greater value to an equal portion of focus spend on spells.

I'll grant you rolling a "6" on A2A, especially when arc'd through the BoV can just lead to massive blowouts and often removes entire units from the table. Doing so twice (via 'wracks & heirophant) can basically win games turn 2. However that's kind of an outlier. Ultimately for the same focus cost you can buy 4 Redeemer Rockets, or shoot off a fully a loaded Reckoner.

I beg to differ with menoth, if you spam some cheap infantry and take a bunch of reclaimers ANY caster for them can be pretty jack heavy

If you aren't stuck on giant robots, I believe everblight can use the most "big stuff" effectively

 Chongara wrote:

 Spyder68 wrote:
Cygnar - Nemo, Haley can do it

Menoth - Harbinger, eFeora. I would not say Sevvy due to he wants his focus for spells.

(Note: I dont consider Cryx and Menoth Tossing DeathJack or avatar in every list with 2-3 Jacks and call them jack casters due to it)

Having access to self-sufficient 'Jacks is a big part of what lets a list run a lot of 'Jacks effectively. Some casters while not " 'Jack Casters" specifically are still going to wind up being in lists that are happy to have lots of 'Jacks simply on account of their access to other tools. You really can't take anything in this game in a Vaccuum.

Also while pSevvy likes having focus to cast spells, it's hardly the only way to run him. He's perfectly happy upkeeping Eye of Menoth & Defender's Ward and handing out the rest in focus. In fact lists of that style have done quite well in the tournament scene to my understanding. EoM + Choir 'Jack attacks are strong mojo and spending a focus to get an extra one, or making sure the one you get hits via boosting is often of similar or greater value to an equal portion of focus spend on spells.

I'll grant you rolling a "6" on A2A, especially when arc'd through the BoV can just lead to massive blowouts and often removes entire units from the table. Doing so twice (via 'wracks & heirophant) can basically win games turn 2. However that's kind of an outlier. Ultimately for the same focus cost you can buy 4 Redeemer Rockets, or shoot off a fully a loaded Reckoner.

I find running Sevy jack heavy makes him very 1 Dimensional. If i see a sevvy playing spamming jacks, im amused as A2A wont be as big of a threat as he will hvae many points setting there in unpowered jacks.

Of course Jack heavy doesn't mean you need to fuel all the jacks at the same time. You can easily send in multiple waves of Jacks and only be powering the wave currently going in.

Harbinger does that in her tier list if you spam Crusaders. I can run 5 Crusaders plus the Avatar in a 50 point list without struggling. You simply trade them Heavy for Heavy and you will simply outlast them.

 Spyder68 wrote:

 Chongara wrote:

 Spyder68 wrote:
Cygnar - Nemo, Haley can do it

Menoth - Harbinger, eFeora. I would not say Sevvy due to he wants his focus for spells.

(Note: I dont consider Cryx and Menoth Tossing DeathJack or avatar in every list with 2-3 Jacks and call them jack casters due to it)

Having access to self-sufficient 'Jacks is a big part of what lets a list run a lot of 'Jacks effectively. Some casters while not " 'Jack Casters" specifically are still going to wind up being in lists that are happy to have lots of 'Jacks simply on account of their access to other tools. You really can't take anything in this game in a Vaccuum.

Also while pSevvy likes having focus to cast spells, it's hardly the only way to run him. He's perfectly happy upkeeping Eye of Menoth & Defender's Ward and handing out the rest in focus. In fact lists of that style have done quite well in the tournament scene to my understanding. EoM + Choir 'Jack attacks are strong mojo and spending a focus to get an extra one, or making sure the one you get hits via boosting is often of similar or greater value to an equal portion of focus spend on spells.

I'll grant you rolling a "6" on A2A, especially when arc'd through the BoV can just lead to massive blowouts and often removes entire units from the table. Doing so twice (via 'wracks & heirophant) can basically win games turn 2. However that's kind of an outlier. Ultimately for the same focus cost you can buy 4 Redeemer Rockets, or shoot off a fully a loaded Reckoner.

I find running Sevy jack heavy makes him very 1 Dimensional. If i see a sevvy playing spamming jacks, im amused as A2A wont be as big of a threat as he will hvae many points setting there in unpowered jacks.

Certainly I think it's a fair argument that basically up-keeping 2 spells and doing nothing else with your caster is rather bland, so "One Dimensional" is a bit of a fair argument. However it's really not fair to say he'll "have many points sitting there in unpowered 'Jacks". Sevvy is FOCUS 8, which means after upkeeping EoM, DW & pulling from a 'Wrack he has 7 focus to spend.

This will fuel 2 'Jacks that want 2 focus each (Redeemers, Reckoners not on the charge turn, etc..) plus one that wants 3. Or it'll fuel up two that want 3, plus a bonus focus for a 'Jack that's happy running with low fuel (Vanquisher, Repenter). He also has the option to take the Avatar and a Reclaimer/Sanctifier. Vanquishers & Redeemers offer comparable functionality to A2A for comparable costs to the BoV.

Now don't get me wrong I like spell-slinging Sevvy and for my playstyle, I wouldn't leave home without the BoV. However he's the most versatile caster in the Protectorate and arguably the game in terms of the kinds of lists he can head up. Lists where he just sits back and buffs stuff and gives focus to his 'Jacks are perfectly viable.

I think hes Average at jack heavy for what he has.

I would take harbinger as the #` 1 Jack heavy caster in the army.

Focus to Drive many of them, and Crusaders call is priceless on our jacks.

Eye of menoth is a Infantry spell to me, we have choir,our jacks are already MAT8 and very high pow due to them what we need is speed.


The only Jack heavy way i would run sevvy is with Duel repenters/Blessing/Avatar/Reckoner.

 Spyder68 wrote:
I think hes Average at jack heavy for what he has.

I would take harbinger as the #` 1 Jack heavy caster in the army.

Focus to Drive many of them, and Crusaders call is priceless on our jacks.

Eye of menoth is a Infantry spell to me, we have choir,our jacks are already MAT8 and very high pow due to them what we need is speed.


The only Jack heavy way i would run sevvy is with Duel repenters/Blessing/Avatar/Reckoner.

I think your dismissal of Eye of Menoth as a force multiplier on 'Jacks is pretty telling. Eye of Menoth is not an "Infantry Spell" it's not even close to being subjective. Unless you're already hitting on 3s and killing on 2s, +1/+1 is a valuable modifier. It doesn't seem like much at a casual glance but it's actually quite meaningful.

For example a fully loaded heavy (2 Initials, +3 Attacks) has about a 64% chance to land all the attacks if hitting on 4s. MAT8 vs DEF 12. That same heavy has an 86% chance of landing all attacks hitting on 3s MAT9 vs DEF12. Even assuming you hit with all attacks in both scenarios (a dangerous assumption even at 86% never mind 64%) you're still going to get a total of +5 damage out of EoM (+4 if you had to charge, or are only hitting with your reach weapon). That's almost whole column, enough to mean the difference between a dead target and one that's going to be healed back to full effectiveness and pounding you into the ground next turn in an unfavourably trade. This is at the tail end of the curve, where +1 means the least. In the cases where you're going from 8s to 7s to do something (like killing bane thralls with redeemer blasts) the difference is very pronounced.

It's not that EoM is specifically 'Jack spell or pSevvy is specifically a 'Jack caster. It's just that he can do everything (including running 'Jacks) quite well, short of playing up the field. If he's lacking anything (as you pointed out) it's a speed buff, but even this can be mitigated by bringing ranged 'Jacks. Certainly just being both FOCUS 8 and being in the same faction as the Choir makes 'Jack heavy lists for him far more viable than the average caster in the game.

EoM basically is another half a choir spell. +3/+3 is pretty darn nice.

For Khador, Karchev, Harkevich and pButcher can all run jack-heavy lists well.

eNemo, Kraye and Darius (although he prefers to run a colossal) can handle jack heavy lists.

Mortenbra is pretty much the best option for going jack heavy with Cryx.

eVyros is pretty much the only decent option for running lots of jacks with ret, but even then he will need some supporting infantry. If you want to run a jack list, stay away from ret.

Darius is the original king of running jack heavy armies for Cygnar. Kraye's Iron Horse rule makes him great with jack heavy armies, especially light jacks. eNemo is great for maneuvering jacks with spells like electrify. In fact, eNemo is one of my go-to choices for the Highlander format.

For mercs, I like Captian Shae and Broadside Bart. Bart's namesake spell is great for loading him up with jacks that have Da Gunz, and Shae's feat with Coup De Maine is also great for getting lots of jacks into the fight.

I found Karchev or pButcher is the best Khador casters for Jack heavy lists. Here is a 35 point Karchev list I ran and worked really well.

Karchev (5 WJP)
-- 6 Berserkers 36
Battle Mechaniks (min) 4
Koldun Lord 2

It uses no focus. You can pop the feat and cast unearthly rage Karchev is still sitting on 3 focus. All Attack and Damage is boosted for free on the jacks. If you have a mass of infantry his spells and spray attack work great. Or he can give max focus to a zerker in a combat and then make it go boom.

 Chongara wrote:

 Spyder68 wrote:
I think hes Average at jack heavy for what he has.

I would take harbinger as the #` 1 Jack heavy caster in the army.

Focus to Drive many of them, and Crusaders call is priceless on our jacks.

Eye of menoth is a Infantry spell to me, we have choir,our jacks are already MAT8 and very high pow due to them what we need is speed.


The only Jack heavy way i would run sevvy is with Duel repenters/Blessing/Avatar/Reckoner.

I think your dismissal of Eye of Menoth as a force multiplier on 'Jacks is pretty telling. Eye of Menoth is not an "Infantry Spell" it's not even close to being subjective. Unless you're already hitting on 3s and killing on 2s, +1/+1 is a valuable modifier. It doesn't seem like much at a casual glance but it's actually quite meaningful.

For example a fully loaded heavy (2 Initials, +3 Attacks) has about a 64% chance to land all the attacks if hitting on 4s. MAT8 vs DEF 12. That same heavy has an 86% chance of landing all attacks hitting on 3s MAT9 vs DEF12. Even assuming you hit with all attacks in both scenarios (a dangerous assumption even at 86% never mind 64%) you're still going to get a total of +5 damage out of EoM (+4 if you had to charge, or are only hitting with your reach weapon). That's almost whole column, enough to mean the difference between a dead target and one that's going to be healed back to full effectiveness and pounding you into the ground next turn in an unfavourably trade. This is at the tail end of the curve, where +1 means the least. In the cases where you're going from 8s to 7s to do something (like killing bane thralls with redeemer blasts) the difference is very pronounced.

It's not that EoM is specifically 'Jack spell or pSevvy is specifically a 'Jack caster. It's just that he can do everything (including running 'Jacks) quite well, short of playing up the field. If he's lacking anything (as you pointed out) it's a speed buff, but even this can be mitigated by bringing ranged 'Jacks. Certainly just being both FOCUS 8 and being in the same faction as the Choir makes 'Jack heavy lists for him far more viable than the average caster in the game.

Oh my yes. However I find that EoM is particularly amazing for ANYTHING that uses blasts or flame templates. Getting up to Rat 8 on repenters with POW 15 flame templates is terrifying. Getting Vanquishers to have effectively Pow 17/10 blast templates. It's particularly great on Zealots as they have POW 15/9 bombs. That's good enough to annihilate just about any infantry wall.