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I'm pretty new to 40k and I'm starting to venture into 750-1000 point games for the first time. I could use some help with my army list. I mostly face space marines, necrons and Imperial Guard, and tyranids occasionally. In the 500pt battles I've played I've been very succesful in outright swamping my opponent in boyz and stomping the bigger threats with my nobs, but I'm worried about the heavier vehicles they're going to field in higher point games. I've come up with two lists so far:

Here's the first:

HQ:

Big Mek + KFF = 85

TROOPS:

23x shoota boyz +2x big shoota + Nob w/ PK and BP = 188
23x shoota boyz +2x big shoota + Nob w/ PK and BP = 188

ELITE:

10x Lootas = 150

FAST ATTACK:

1x Dakkajet + extra supashoota + fighta ace + red paint job = 135

746 points total.


And here's the second list:

HQ:

Big Mek + KFF = 85

TROOPS:

28x shoota boyz +2x Big Shoota + Nob w/ PK and BP = 218
27x shoota boyz +2x Big Shoota + Nob w/ PK and BP = 212

ELITE:

10x Lootas = 150

HEAVY SUPPORT:

3x Kannons + 6 grot crew + 2 ammo runts = 84

749 points total

I'm not sure which list to go for. Also, if there are any glaring problems with my lists, please point them out, I'm completely new at this stuff. o:

Id say the lists are pretty equal but at that points level you realy want to take advantage of boyz. Personaly i'd go for the second list, but id take some grots off of the kannons to complete the squads of boys.

Hmm, yeah, I could take out the extra grot crew and add 3 more boyz into the mix. But won't that make the kannons a bit fragile?

The kannons are afterall T6/7 can't remember wich of em... anyway they are tough! (but best behind a aegies defence line..
that could work perfect for a 800 list.. but adding it inn here will take some stuff away :/

Kannons are definatley not fragile, and if you have 2 mobs of 30 boys headed toward you, they will be the least of your worries... unless you play flamer spam...

For low point games I would keep the Dakka Jet lose the red paint and extra inch - meh who cares in a flyer.

I would lose the Bg shootas and put rokkits on the boyz (S 8 shots ap 3 are super nice and good antimeq, I rarely use big shootas anymore. - put one rokkit on your nob, he does not get the extra attack with the pk anyway. I am a believer in 'eavy armour on the nob, it has saved him before so I think worth it, some may disagree.
Lootas - split them up have 2 squads of 5 so can choose multiple targets in one shooting phase.
I love big gunz and kannons but in a small game I think that Dakka Jet is gonna be so awesome...

I am not a big - big mek with KFF any more - not since 6th ed. I would rather have a warboss - one of the few accesses Orks have to S10 stuff with PK. I also really like Warpheadz - because he can get free Waaghs which makes the Dakka Jets even more awesome... I had one game where I got 4 free Waaghs in a game on top of the free one you get. I was very lucky - but I usually get 1 free one a game.
So since 6th ed I usually run my Warboss on bike with Nob bikes and painboy and a warphead with a mob of 30 boyz even 'ere we go can be super useful. The melta shot is nice.... Just my opinion.. My 2 big meks have been collecting dust with my killa khans and deff dreads since vehicles took the nerf in this edition.

I checked up on the rules, yeah, artillery crew get T from their gun. T7 grots, oh wow.

@Eiluj The Farseer,

I don't think I even need Big Shootas with this many shoota boyz. A big shoota just adds 3 s5 shots instead of the regular 2 shots. In a mob of 25-30 boyz, what difference is two shots anyway, I already have a bucket full of dice to throw.

I'm keeping the big mek though. With this many boyz footslogging across the board, they need every bit of protection they can get. A 5+ coversave gives them a 33% chance to survive most things thrown at them.



I'm still undecided on the dakkajet or the kannons. Both sound pretty awesome for low point games like these.


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Also wondering if kannons are the best choice. tbh I picked them because they're the cheapest. Should I switch them for lobbas or zzap guns for more specialized dakka?

Rockits are better at killing marines and armor and since that is what you are worried about then that would be a no brainer change. I am also liking the artillery but I play Zapp gunz, sure they are random str BUT they are always ap 2 and you will most likely be seeing Termies soon. Also the two most likely numbers to get are 7's and 10 (since 11 and 12 count as ten).

Also when not playing speed freaks I like 20 boyz per 300 points but that is just me.

Like I said I would "lose" the Big shootas and go with Rokkits -you can never have too many S8 shots and it is always satisfying to have a squad of boyz take out something big, because the opponent forgot about the rokkits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't see what the big mek is really doing for you in the game. Yeah cover, but most of the time you can get your boys in cover anyway. I really think you would be better with a boss or something with some punch and survivability, I don't think the big mek is doing much for you. If you were running a bunch of vehicles then yeah it would be really worth it to try to keep the vehicles alive, but you are just protecting boyZ . Hell just buy more boys or conga line a squad of 19 grots in front of your boyz bamm instand cover and it is cheaper, now you can get a boss "Wiff Sum Teef!" or a warphead, but for your list I think the warboss would be better.

I'll try out the rokkits when I play on sunday and see what happens. I'm a little bit worried about the fact that it's a single shot weapon though. I'm testing regular kannons first, if there's time for another game i'll try out the zzap guns. I'm really liking the sound of ranged AP2.

As for the big mek, well, I mostly face gunlines. I used to play without the KFF and lost boatloads of boyz to lack of cover and lack of saves. With 25+ mobs of boyz, there is no way to hide them all in cover when you're advancing on enemy gunlines and objectives.

You will be suprised as to how many times those rokkits hit and hurt something.

I usually use squads of 20-30 boyz and I played a 1600pt tourney where I had old Zogwort, a warboss and 2 30man boyz, 1 20 man boyz and 19 man grots and conga lined the grots in front of the boyz as they advanced forwards - most of my opponents did not want to waste the shots at the grots so they provided cover for the game and even killed some things with their shots too. This was before dakka jets had come a long so I was using lootas and big gunz

I have been more impressed with the consistency of kannons, I have not been that impressed with ZZapp guns, I have them but don't use them often

Never really tried grots before as a screen for my boyz. Worth a shot. How much cover do they get from grots anyway?

Same as the KFF 5up

5+ cover.
Zapp guns are okay but only if you expect something with Sv2+ to pop up, also they're short ranged which puts my preference on kannons.
For 750pts I wouldn't go with a warboss, they easily break 100pts and biker bosses 150pts. It would take a cut out of too much of the rest of your army. For an HQ choice, if you run the grot screen then take a weirdboy, upgrade him to a warphead if points permit.
Between rokkits and big shootas it depends on who your going against. Space marine/necrons rokkits but IG/Tyranids big shootas. For my standard lists I take big shootas. If heavy tanks AV13+ come out then rokkits will do very little and so the PKs just need to get in close. The only vehicles I shoot are transports and <AV12 which I can glance to death and big shootas are good at that and good for light-mid infantry. Between the 2 units you can get 4 rokkits or 4 big shootas. With the rokkits its about 1 marine dead a turn and thats the same with the big shootas. But if you choose to make the whole unit go against a vehicle only the rokkit can damage... you're gonna have a bad time. At least the big shoota will make you focus shooting on infantry and the lightest of vehicles and will leave you having to PK tanks which you'll do either way. I'd leave rokkits to the deffkoptas.
For the grot screen it would be difficult to find the points to put enough in and take an HQ. I kinda like the first list as is TBH.
>

I actually hadn't considered deff koptas to be honest. One kopta with 2 twinlinked rokkits is what... 45 points? Is it worth taking one or two lone deffkoptas to scare armor in my lists?

I run a few deffkoptas, there's 2 ways I deploy them though. If they have a transport AV11 or lower I start off with them, scout move and then shoot. As long as its reasonably likely they'll damage it. Or if they have heavier tanks/guys in transports aren't too threatening then I hold them in reserve and outflank with them. Its preferable to get them power klaws but that makes them 70pts.
2 deffkoptas - 115
2 TL rokkits
1 PK
is how I normally run them.
For your list though to fit them in you would probably have to drop either the lootas or the dakkajet. You dont want to loose the lootas and whether they would be more effective than the dakkajet... hard to say, most likely not.