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Hey everyone, i'm extremely new to the warhammer universe, just finished playing Dawn of War and i've also read some pages off the lexicanum. I was reading over the Pages on the Primarchs and they seem pretty powerful, but then i read that Ezekyle Abaddon is the warmaster of Chaos. Does this mean that Abbadon(formerly a space marine) is stronger than the Primarchs, some of whom are dhaemon princes? sorry if this has been addressed already in another thread. i'd appreciate any answers you can give me.

EDIT - Just realized i posted this in the wrong forum >.< if a mod can help me move this over to the 40k forum i'd appreciate it! sorry about that.

Abaddon is Warmaster because he is Horus's successor over his former Legion.

The other reason is as follows.

The Daemon Primarchs are all either too preoccupied with being a Daemon or are beholden to a single god. As the Warmaster would carry the blessing of all 4 gods it wouldn't be possable for all 4 gods to bless them.


Fulgrim is having a perpetual orgy on his planet.

Lorgar locked himself in his tower to meditate.

Magnus is being all Emo in his tower.


All the others arn't suitable. They arn't undivided.

Only Abaddon is both undivided and actually cares to make war on the Imperium.

In terms of competence...maybe, as the person above me pointed out the daemon primarchs are too preoccupied being asshurt over losing during the Heresy or doing jack. In terms of fighting power, Im sure the primarchs take the cake on this one. They were already gods among normal space marines before the Heresy. Turning demonic has greatly increased some of their powers, though also making them susceptible to being banished to the warp by like any other daemon, though that's besides the point.

Stronger? Perhaps, perhaps not. More influential and active? Certainly.

However, there's also the reference in the new Chaos Codex that the Primarches are actively out fighting as part of the 13th Black Crusade.

Presumably, they haven't taken over Abaddon's job because they 'd rather be out crumping heads at the forefront of their armies than sitting on a spaceship plotting the campaign.

Because if Angron was in charge of the black crusades Chaos would have won by now.

The Primarchs are all more powerful than Abbadon, In a 1 on 1 any Primarch would own him,

However as others have said they are to busy with their demonic lives to care about mortal wants and needs such as black crusades, If they join one its for their own reason,

Abbadon does not command them and they take no orders from him. If they listen to his plan its a bonus, if they dont its no biggie either.

What the feth is Perturabo doing? Besieging himself?

Building Lego-copies of the Imperial Palace, trying to crack it. So yes. Or he is drinking beer and sleeping like a godlike lazyass chav.

Hehe as for Abbaddon he has the undivided attention of Chaos, all the four major gods are backing him up, and he wouldn't have been so popular or ridiculed if he wasn't as strong or stronger than a Primarch, plus the nasty Daemon Sword he has a tendency to carry fuels him even further. Plus Mortarion got his heart tattooed, but I remember in Warhammer Battlemarch then you got weaker as a Daemon-Prince (I know it's in another universe, but damn I missed going in axe flying with Thorgrimm and his Chaos Knights).

As it was said, the Primarchs don't really do much, aside from Angryon. And Angryon could barely be bothered to lead the World Eaters, let alone all of Chaos.

Lorgar has been writing a book for the last 10,000 years, lol. And Perturabo has been fortifying and then refortifying and entire planet.

Being a daemon probably gives you all kinds of weird priorities that don't include organizing giant crusades.

You know how Marine fans talk about Marines as though they were nigh-invincible gods of the battlefield, who tore through Avatars of Khaine barehanded, smashed Titans or punched through mountains, and cut through armies while taking heavy weapons fire without a scratch?

Well, Marines might not be capable of that, but that's par the course for a Primarch. Angron? Burst through thousands of tons of rock that crushed him as he was hit by a bomb, no injuries, and from what I hear overpowers a Titan in Betrayer. Fulgrim? Crushes the throat of an Avatar of Khaine and tanks its death explosion, with his bare hands. Mortarion? Takes a salvo of plasma weaponry to the face, gets mad, and rips the tank that dared fire upon him to pieces. Magnus? Destroys Titans with the power of his mind, and tore apart the surface of Prospero while battling Leman Russ. Lorgar? Even he does gak like best An'ggrath the Unbound in martial combat, and had the telepathic ability to compel Horus. Perturabo? Well... I haven't read Angel Exterminatus, but still!

In terms of combat ability, Abaddon hasn't shown the aptitude even the pre-Daemon Primarchs had, much less their Daemon Prince incarnations.

He is Warmaster because, as a mortal, he has free reign over actually pillaging the Materium frequently, it is very difficult to summon and prolong a Daemon Primarch's existence into the Materium.

He doesn't overpower a Titan, he barely holds an enemy Warhound's foot back from crushing him and Lorgar for a few minutes until a friendly Titan knocked it out. Lorgar took two shots from a Titan's plasma blaster to the face, which almost killed him, but then he prayed himself all better like a day later.

Catching a titan foot mid stomp and holding it there is "Overpowering a titan". I will give you that he "Barely" overpowered a titan.

But that's not nearly as cool as Lorgar killing a titan by hitting it with a Rhino sized rock. With his mind.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
What the feth is Perturabo doing? Besieging himself?

Actually, yes. Kinda

 Void__Dragon wrote:
You know how Marine fans talk about Marines as though they were nigh-invincible gods of the battlefield, who tore through Avatars of Khaine barehanded, smashed Titans or punched through mountains, and cut through armies while taking heavy weapons fire without a scratch?

Well, Marines might not be capable of that, but that's par the course for a Primarch. Angron? Burst through thousands of tons of rock that crushed him as he was hit by a bomb, no injuries, and from what I hear overpowers a Titan in Betrayer. Fulgrim? Crushes the throat of an Avatar of Khaine and tanks its death explosion, with his bare hands. Mortarion? Takes a salvo of plasma weaponry to the face, gets mad, and rips the tank that dared fire upon him to pieces. Magnus? Destroys Titans with the power of his mind, and tore apart the surface of Prospero while battling Leman Russ. Lorgar? Even he does gak like best An'ggrath the Unbound in martial combat, and had the telepathic ability to compel Horus. Perturabo? Well... I haven't read Angel Exterminatus, but still!

In terms of combat ability, Abaddon hasn't shown the aptitude even the pre-Daemon Primarchs had, much less their Daemon Prince incarnations.

He is Warmaster because, as a mortal, he has free reign over actually pillaging the Materium frequently, it is very difficult to summon and prolong a Daemon Primarch's existence into the Materium.

It isn't that simple. Magnus was nearly killed by two unshielded and unpiloted ( that is, piloted by skilled Eldar pilots ) Eldar Titans ( despite being acompanied by a considerable number of his "sons" who at one point had to save his red hide) and Fulgrim beat the Avatar trough guile ( and because the Avatar was apparently dumb as a rock, but that's another matter ) and not trough strenght or superior martial prowess.Vulkan and Corax were both incapacitated by conventional weapons and Horus was wounded by Interex weapons and had a suprising amount of trouble to defeat a single posessed human in close combat. Of course, the primarch spank appears to get worse. Soon we will see them conquer entire planets on their own.

 KingDeath wrote:
It isn't that simple. Magnus was nearly killed by two unshielded and unpiloted ( that is, piloted by skilled Eldar pilots ) Eldar Titans ( despite being acompanied by a considerable number of his "sons" who at one point had to save his red hide) and Fulgrim beat the Avatar trough guile ( and because the Avatar was apparently dumb as a rock, but that's another matter ) and not trough strenght or superior martial prowess.Vulkan and Corax were both incapacitated by conventional weapons and Horus was wounded by Interex weapons and had a suprising amount of trouble to defeat a single posessed human in close combat. Of course, the primarch spank appears to get worse. Soon we will see them conquer entire planets on their own.

Both Titans were quoted as dwarfing a Warlord Titan, and Magnus destroyed the first one on his own, and considering feats of Primarch durability, it is speculation that he would have died at all.

Fulgrim beat the Avatar after he punched through a Wraithlord's face, and though he employed some trickery, he went on to crush its throat and blow it the feth up.

Vulkan was incapacitated by a Macro Cannon. A starship weapon. That's not "conventional" weaponry. I can't recall the Corax instance, but I can recall him wading through lascannon fire.

Horus was barely pricked by an Interex weapon that went through two Space Marines and the wall behind them. While he was wearing a robe, no armour. As for the possessed human, we can only speculate on the strength of said possessed human, since he has but one feat: Fighting and wounding Horus.

 KingDeath wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
You know how Marine fans talk about Marines as though they were nigh-invincible gods of the battlefield, who tore through Avatars of Khaine barehanded, smashed Titans or punched through mountains, and cut through armies while taking heavy weapons fire without a scratch?

Well, Marines might not be capable of that, but that's par the course for a Primarch. Angron? Burst through thousands of tons of rock that crushed him as he was hit by a bomb, no injuries, and from what I hear overpowers a Titan in Betrayer. Fulgrim? Crushes the throat of an Avatar of Khaine and tanks its death explosion, with his bare hands. Mortarion? Takes a salvo of plasma weaponry to the face, gets mad, and rips the tank that dared fire upon him to pieces. Magnus? Destroys Titans with the power of his mind, and tore apart the surface of Prospero while battling Leman Russ. Lorgar? Even he does gak like best An'ggrath the Unbound in martial combat, and had the telepathic ability to compel Horus. Perturabo? Well... I haven't read Angel Exterminatus, but still!

In terms of combat ability, Abaddon hasn't shown the aptitude even the pre-Daemon Primarchs had, much less their Daemon Prince incarnations.

He is Warmaster because, as a mortal, he has free reign over actually pillaging the Materium frequently, it is very difficult to summon and prolong a Daemon Primarch's existence into the Materium.

It isn't that simple. Magnus was nearly killed by two unshielded and unpiloted ( that is, piloted by skilled Eldar pilots ) Eldar Titans ( despite being acompanied by a considerable number of his "sons" who at one point had to save his red hide) and Fulgrim beat the Avatar trough guile ( and because the Avatar was apparently dumb as a rock, but that's another matter ) and not trough strenght or superior martial prowess.Vulkan and Corax were both incapacitated by conventional weapons and Horus was wounded by Interex weapons and had a suprising amount of trouble to defeat a single posessed human in close combat. Of course, the primarch spank appears to get worse. Soon we will see them conquer entire planets on their own.

QFT Magnus and Horus were almost snuffed like Dorn was...

Horus was nearly killed by a Daemon whose only feat was nearly killing Horus. That doesn't detract from Horus, lol.

Not that any of what he said invalidates any of what I said. Based on their feats in battle, a Primarch would roll over Abaddon.

Kor Phaeron had Guiliman at his mercy (three psy hits from him, and guy from the blue corner was down)
Chaos infused Luther raped Lion
Temba nearly raped Horus
Dorn was killed by a band of chaos marines

Now all those guys are at 20 % of power which Abbadon has...

+ Abby knows primarchs anatomy, resists chaos gods (which deamon primarchs can't)...so my money is on him...

 DarthMarko wrote:
Kor Phaeron had Guiliman at his mercy (three psy hits from him, and guy from the blue corner was down)

Kor Phaeron is one of the most powerful sorcerers in the galaxy, and clearly a total badass.

Chaos infused Luther raped Lion

Luther? Oh, you mean that guy elevated to a strength equal to Jonson by the direct intervention of the Chaos Gods themselves? That Luther?

Temba nearly raped Horus

His only notable feat. Clearly he'd wreck house on Abaddon as well.

Dorn was killed by a band of chaos marines

We don't know how, though, and as you said, it was a bunch of Chaos Marines.

Now all those guys are at 20 % of power which Abbadon has...

You can't prove this statement.

Hell, wasn't Abaddon beaten in single combat by Eldrad?

+ Abby knows primarchs anatomy, resists chaos gods (which deamon primarchs can't)...so my money is on him...

Abaddon is just another tool of the Chaos Gods, he can't resist them.

The Daemon Primarchs are superior in every way. They probably would not kill Abaddon, since he is useful to their masters, but do they have the power to do so? Absolutely.

So basically you think that Luther and Kor Phaeron are weaker then Abby? i think even heresy Abby would bitch slapped them...
Also deamon P = fueled by one God (Magnus,Mortarion (insert Draigo also),Angron)
Abby = All 4

P.S. If Draigo can rape Mortarion - Abby can even more...

I'd say the death of Dorn may have been at the hands of more than just basic Chaos marines, probably veterans, Chosen or Terminators as opposed to some random Chaos marines. It's not really expanded on what happened, all that's said it was on a ship and I think they were Iron Warriors?

A Primarch can be overwhelmed. He might take out over 100 Space Marines, but eventually they would best him. That's the scenario with Dorn, and there haven't been mentioned the mere humans probably helping them.

Its most likely he got caught in the crossfire of a bunch of plasma and melta weapons. Not even a Primarch can take that much punishment for long.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
A Primarch can be overwhelmed. He might take out over 100 Space Marines, but eventually they would best him. That's the scenario with Dorn, and there haven't been mentioned the mere humans probably helping them.

Which makes that primarch isn't some dude who can take million rounds to the head, and spit them out like Terminator....and I'm glad for this...

 DarthMarko wrote:
So basically you think that Luther and Kor Phaeron are weaker then Abby? i think even heresy Abby would bitch slapped them...

I think Kor Phaeron would beat Abby's ass and cut his stupid hair off with even greater ease than he did so to Guilliman. Why? Because he defeated a Primarch.

Luther was explicitly raised to the status of a Primarch. Abaddon was not. And hell, Heresy Abby had to put forth a good effort to beat Loken.

Also deamon P = fueled by one God (Magnus,Mortarion (insert Draigo also),Angron)
Abby = All 4

Abby has the blessings of the four Gods, but he isn't a Daemon Prince, and he has no feats in battle to suggest he is on their levels even pre-Daemon.

P.S. If Draigo can rape Mortarion - Abby can even more...

Draigo would tear Abby's head off and gak down his throat in the fluff.

You have no basis to claim that Abby is stronger than Draigo.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its most likely he got caught in the crossfire of a bunch of plasma and melta weapons. Not even a Primarch can take that much punishment for long.

He can't take a sniper direct head shot also - (example Fulgrim)

Heh Marko that sounds like the Mask or an Oblitorator, not a Terminator. Does the Mask have that name in dubbed Croatian? Well odder things have happened, but that must be awful (the dubbing I mean, not the language).

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Heh Marko that sounds like the Mask or an Oblitorator, not a Terminator. Does the Mask have that name in dubbed Croatian? Well odder things have happened, but that must be awful.

Yes :-) It's called Mask:-) or Maska - but you get my point:..
Shwartzy was blown from the 1 m (in "Terminator 3") by that chick and said "Do not do that"...That fell on my mind...

Of course, even a demi-god can be worn down and tire from slashing apart Supermen. And small injuries even with accelerated healing will eventually be too much.

As for the point, I have seen some real bad dubbing myself. Addicts into self-torture or children too young watches Disney Channel a lot for the horrible dubbing here. It's simply atrocious.