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Tonight's game this issue arose: dreadknight in front of 3 thunder wolf calvary models. 2 calvary models were behind benefiting from a 5+ cover save. One model in plain sight which was closest to the shooter. Shooting player declares shots (no focus fire) and gets 1 wound from a rail gun. We could not decide on what if any save the TWC got. Does the TWC get a 5 up or does he get killed out right.

one of us said the model gets a 5 up because 2 guys were in cover and there was no focus fire. One of us says that the guy closest does not get cover because he was out in open and closest. We played it as getting cover and a 6 was rolled saving the model. So what's what please???

Models in the same unit do not block Line of Sight to members of their own unit.

Cover saves are taken on a model by model basis in 6th ed, which is a change from 5th ed.

Cover save is model based. If the closest model was not in cover it would not get a cover save.

DeathReaper wrote:Models in the same unit do not block Line of Sight to members of their own unit.

Cover saves are taken on a model by model basis in 6th ed, which is a change from 5th ed.

The cover save was granted from the dreadknight which was a different unit.

Happyjew wrote:Cover save is model based. If the closest model was not in cover it would not get a cover save.

I'm reading the rules on page 18 focus fire entirely different then you two are. I am reading as the person gets to use the cover save because focus fire was not declared, and is taking the chance of targeting the entire unit. More than one shot was fired - 4 shots total and one of the 4 wounded.

The first paragraph talks about this exact scenario, but for some reason 3/4 of the people are saying no which is contradicting that rule which is confusing me.

Wounds are normally automatically allocated one at a time onto the closest model until it dies, then the next closest, etc. Each model has or does not have a cover save if it is in cover.

Focus Fire allows the wounds to instead only be allocated to the members of the squad which have the same or worse cover save as you declared, although still the closest of those first, and so on.

House of El Studios wrote:
[I'm reading the rules on page 18 focus fire entirely different then you two are. I am reading as the person gets to use the cover save because focus fire was not declared, and is taking the chance of targeting the entire unit. More than one shot was fired - 4 shots total and one of the 4 wounded.

The first paragraph talks about this exact scenario, but for some reason 3/4 of the people are saying no which is contradicting that rule which is confusing me.

The first paragraph states that if you declare Focus Fire x, you can only kill models with a cover save of x or worse, not the whole squad.

The cover save rules before that clearly state that cover is on a per model basis.

House of El Studios wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Models in the same unit do not block Line of Sight to members of their own unit.

Cover saves are taken on a model by model basis in 6th ed, which is a change from 5th ed.

The cover save was granted from the dreadknight which was a different unit.

Happyjew wrote:Cover save is model based. If the closest model was not in cover it would not get a cover save.

I'm reading the rules on page 18 focus fire entirely different then you two are. I am reading as the person gets to use the cover save because focus fire was not declared, and is taking the chance of targeting the entire unit. More than one shot was fired - 4 shots total and one of the 4 wounded.

The first paragraph talks about this exact scenario, but for some reason 3/4 of the people are saying no which is contradicting that rule which is confusing me.

In a normal shooting attack, the closest Model is allocated the wounds first. IF that model has obscurement or other cover from ANY of the Firing unit, then that model has cover. In your example. If the closest TWC had cover from Rail Gun because the Dreadknight was in the way, then it gets a cover save. If the closest TWC model was the one in the open, then it dies outright.

Yes closest model always dies - got that.


If you guys look at the section interveneing mods page 18 it says: if a target is partially hidden from the firers view by models from a third unit, it receives a 5+ cover save in the same was as if behind terrain.

Target = unit IMO because the next section talks about focus fire. It also tells me that the entire unit gets the +5 unless focus fire is used.

Focus fire: sometimes, a target unit will be partially in cover, with some of the models in cover and some not. In this case you have a choice: your unit can either shoot at the squad as a whole, or declare that they will focus fire on those enemies less hidden. -- then you go on choosing your cover save value to target etc.

They way you guys are explaining it totally negates the focus fire rule to me... Still not getting it.

focus fire is for when you want to make sure all your shots can land on people without a cover save.

If your TWC wasn't los blocked by the dreadnight, then it didnt deserve a cover save.

Please check the cover rules.

It tells you models get cover on a model to model basis.

Just because the majority of your unit was obscured, does not mean the whole unit gets a cover save.

ONLY the models that are IN cover or obscured by 25% or more.

The model in the open gets no cover save.

davou wrote:
focus fire is for when you want to make sure all your shots can land on people without a cover save.

If your TWC wasn't los blocked by the dreadnight, then it didnt deserve a cover save.

Models would still be taken from the closest if a failed save occurred and visible correct? Or would it be from the closest model in the focus fire group?

davou wrote:
focus fire is for when you want to make sure all your shots can land on people without a cover save.

If your TWC wasn't los blocked by the dreadnight, then it didnt deserve a cover save.

Or a lower cover save if the target unit has multiple levels of cover. You can say "I'll attack models from that unit with a 6+ or worse or 5+ or Worse. ect.."

Ok I think I'm getting it, but why would anyone even choose to dump say 10 shots into a small group and kill say 2 models... Then kill the 2 models with the first 2 shots and the remaining shots are lost. When they could dump all the shots onto the squad killing the 2 guys then the 8 remaining shots to into the group.

I'm failing to understand this part. Any sain person would shoot the entire group so they dont lose shots and possible wounds.

House of El Studios wrote:
Ok I think I'm getting it, but why would anyone even choose to dump say 10 shots into a small group and kill say 2 models... Then kill the 2 models with the first 2 shots and the remaining shots are lost. When they could dump all the shots onto the squad killing the 2 guys then the 8 remaining shots to into the group.

I'm failing to understand this part. Any sain person would shoot the entire group so they dont lose shots and possible wounds.

I think it represents individual members of a firing unit all deciding in a spit second they will kill the guys out in the open at the same time without conferring with each other. So the poor doods in the open take more shots [or all of them in game mechanics] than the guys in cover.

House of El Studios wrote:
I'm failing to understand this part. Any sain person would shoot the entire group so they dont lose shots and possible wounds.

It represents group focusing fire only on the targets on open: basically someone in the squad says "Don't shoot those guys in the cover, we'd rather kill these ones in the open instead".

Imagine if the models in cover were closer to the fireing squad then the models not in cover. You can focus fire at the models farther away without a cover save.

rbacus wrote:
Imagine if the models in cover were closer to the fireing squad then the models not in cover. You can focus fire at the models farther away without a cover save.

Where would the models be removed from? The out in open or the closer guys in cover?

It has several uses in the game.

Say I'm shooting a couple plasma guns into a unit partially in cover.

The members of the unit that are not in cover would get no save. If I want to ensure dead models, I focus fire on the ones not in cover.

On the flip side, say that half a unit is in cover and you want to try to kill the sergeant or model with a special weapon. You can focus fire on the half of the unit that has the sergeant or special weapon to try and kill them instead of the other half.

Let's say your shooting before you plan to charge into close combat. If you shoot normally, you will be killing the closest models, increasing how far you need to charge. If some of the models are not in cover (or have a different cover save) you can focus fire on the models that are not the closet models so that your charge range is not affected.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

House of El Studios wrote:

rbacus wrote:
Imagine if the models in cover were closer to the fireing squad then the models not in cover. You can focus fire at the models farther away without a cover save.

Where would the models be removed from? The out in open or the closer guys in cover?

Your only allowed to allocate wounds to models with the cover save you focus fired on.

If you focus on the ones in back with a different cover save, you must remove those models if you fail saves.

Alrighty I think I'm good now thank you all for the civil conversation and explaining this stuff to me without being aggravated.