Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

HQ
Reclusiarch
130 points

Elite
Sanguinary Priest
Jump Pack
75 points

Troops
Death company
11 models
4 power mauls
2 fists
330 points

DT Land Raider Redeemer
Multi-melta
250 points

Assault Marine Squad
2 Meltaguns
Power maul
225 points

Assault Marine Squad
2 Meltaguns
Power maul
225 points

Death Company Dreadnought
Blood Talons
125 points

Death Company Dreadnought
Blood talons
125 points

Fast Attack
Baal Predator
Flamestorm cannon
115 points

Heavy Support
Storm Raven
Multi-melta
200 points

Storm Raven
Multi-melta
200 points

The army seems pretty standard for 6th, 2 flyers to dominate the skies, can transport the dreadnoughts in if I need late game sweeping.
The Death company go with the reclusiarch obviously, they deal with the biggest melee threats (Dreadnoughts should get mushed by the mauls, krak grenades and fists, paladins really feel the hurt from 2 power fists - there isn't much they can't beat, though what they don't beat will be severly weakened.)
The two dreadnoughts can either be early game threats or late game threats, depending on how well the death company should fare against big threats. They can mop up objective holders like nobody's business or they can scare the crap out of an opponent early game.
the flamestorm baal is an outflanker, taking out a poorly placed long fang squad - or draw some fire off of my other squads.
The Assault marines are simple, they get used if they need to be brough to the fray, otherwise they can hold objectives or chase tanks.

no comments at all?

I'd go for hurricane bolters on the ravens. I find BA lack ranged fire power and ravens with hurricane bolters and assault cannons can help with this. Honestly, I find a Librarian a much better HQ than the rec. They're far more versatile and can add the same reroll benefits if you take prescience. Further the Librarian can use his buffs to help your other squads as well.

you have 500 points deep striking, I had a similar list once and it got completely destroyed because i had my army divided for my opponent basically. storm ravens are fine but i would try to find points for drop pods for the dreadnoughts. maybe taking out the DC and DCD for Fruiso Dreds

and a terminator squad for the Landraider

DC dreadnoughts are garbage. AV 12 and can't take frag cannons. Blood talons are extremely overrated.

The redeemer is the least effective version of the LR I think.

The flamestorm cannons makes the Baal a pricey one-use weapon,. The dakka version will kill way more models over the course of a game and doubles as AA and can put wounds on MC.

I would never run dual stormravens without a commlink or divinination libbies. If you roll bad reserve rolls, you straight up lose. A list with no reserves will table you before the stormravens can save you.

Starting from top down:

The Reclusiarch is nice, has a great stat line and put them with the DC and they are re-rolling hits and wounds. I don't think it's your best choice as your only HQ in 2000. Blood Angels have some of the strongest psykers in the game I think you should utilize them at 2k and take a chaplain for the DC.

Sanguinary Priests are still a must in any BA list even though FNP got nerfed. It's the only save that stacks with other saves. Though I usually feel more comfortable with at least 2 and give them a power weapon your sergeants are there to accept challenges in their stead.

You may want to rethink the equipment on the DC. 11 models is a bit pricey too. 4 Power Mauls I think is a waste on this type of unit. Power Sword or Lance would be the better choice (AP 4 power Maul v AP3 Sword and Lance on the charge). I don't think you need 2 fists on that unit either. Hell, I don't think you need 1. DC should be scoring unit hunter-killers. Same as the DC dreads. They still suffer from Hull Points. They are not meant to engage anything that has an Armor Value. They are meat grinders. Keep in mind, that once you put that black walking tank on the board it becomes a huge bullet magnet so you want to attach them to your 2 Storm Ravens and let them hit the ground running. I've won several games by simply destroying all their scoring units with Death Company. The dreadnought usually slaughters a unit of Orks or a unit or 2 of Marines then promptly lies in a smouldering heap. 1 stumbling block for Death Company Dreads is T5 FNP Plague Marines. Keep them away from Terminators as well. There should be plenty of squishy's for them to eat.

You only have 2 scoring units at 2000. In most cases this isn't enough. You can offset this a bit with the DC but I wouldn't count on it. Again... power mauls, in my opinion are a waste. I usually field my Sgt's without upgrades. You have plenty anti tank already in your vehicles and in your ASMs not sure why you'd need the Maul.

I do have a question... are you carrying the DC in 1 of the Storm Ravens or the Redeemer? You might be able to get rid of the Redeemer altogether and save you some points.

Personally I think the Baal is out of place. It's a single tank and easy KP.

Storm Ravens are Storm Ravens for the points you provided. I would think of a way to get some hurricane bolters on them though.

All in all I think you need a Librarian to help provide cover on the advance. You need more scoring troops if everything gets wiped up on turn 1 or 2 if you go second you lose because everything else is in reserves.

I don't understand this DC and DCDs are garbage crap. Expensive, yeah. Crap? Not in the least. Maybe people need to learn how to use them. They are one of the best units in the game. With the introduction of Hull Points the DCDs got a bit dicey (no pun intended) but so did any non-flyer vehicle.

Let me explain how DC are crap. They are no harder to kill than an ASM with a priest buddy. They must pay for an expensive delivery system to make sure they can use their rage ability, or else why have them? Oh, and they can't actually score points for you. If someone frags or immobilizes that LR, the DC get to walk into a shooting gallery. Lastly, they are one of the death stars in the game pretty much neutered by a spoiling attack. Lame.

DC dreads are even worse, I think. AV 12 is considerably inferior to AV 13. They can't take the best current option, the frag cannon.

Don't ever mobilize troops in a stormraven. Not only must they be in reserves, it makes that stormraven the juciciest three HP ever.

Reserves is your enemy. The more you have in reserves, the easier it is for the opponent to shoot you off the able and you have less throw weight in return.

I actually kinda like the power mauls, but none of the DC stuff.

So you pay 75-90 points (if you take a power weapon) for a 1 wound model that gives FNP and Furious Charge to a unit. That 1 wound model gets mowed down by the new shooting rules and you didn't roll a 1 at the beginning of the game. You're sitting on an objective but fail your LD and run because you're not fearless. You no longer have control of that objective if you didn't get mowed down by by another squad because you lost what extra survivability you had left all in 1 model.

The DC may not be able to score but if they slaughter the enemy's scoring units then this point is off set. They are assault oriented units, shock troops if you will, that come stock with FNP, furious charge and Fearless without having to roll or having to buy a 1 wound model to give it to them. They aren't made for holding objectives they are made for killing units that hold objectives.

The best insertion method for them is an expensive vehicle and last I checked Blood Angels are a bit skimpy on assault vehicles. The only ones they have are expensive. I wouldn't call them a death star because their lack of 2+ armor. JPs make them even more of a threat but you pay for it.

DC Dreads are AV 12 not 13. You think this really matters when an Ork Nob that you didn't kill when you dropped down behind an Ork line and killed 6 of the 10 Orks (I'm being generous) you could reach with the blast template opens your AV 10 back panel because you couldn't do anything after you fired it? Even less when it comes to Nurgle Marines. I also don't see how you think the Frag Cannon is the best option.

I disagree with your statement on the SRs as well. It's our one stock flier defense and it's an assault vehicle. Only thing currently that can hit fliers reliably are fortifications and flak. Taking them would depend on your local meta but I wouldn't discount them because they can be shot and have a possibilty to go down. If you're afraid of that happening maybe you're playing the wrong game.

Agreed that reserves are your enemy, which is why I don't do it typically. My Storm Ravens have performed admirably and reliably over all and delivered many a Death Company Marine and Dreadnought to the front line. There's no reason for me not to take them.

I'm not saying take an army of DC with Astorath that would be stupid. Having DC in at least 2k is perfectly viable.

Well, 10 DC with jump packs, 2 hammers and 3 power swords/ lances are pretty fast and deadly. Yes, jump packs may be overpriced for them, but they are a great unit in general. DC dreads, however, are kinda terrible. If you take out the Baal Pred, you have enough points to give the DC JP. Instead of the DC dreads, you really need ASM. More troops = win in 6th edition. As other have said, it would be wise to bring at least one Librarian with Divination. And make sure that if you bring 4 blocks of ASM, you need at least 2 priests to give them FNP and FC.

I personally don't think that mauls are all that great. Swords would be better for your sergeants in challenges.

Lucarikx

 Mordechai wrote:
So you pay 75-90 points (if you take a power weapon) for a 1 wound model that gives FNP and Furious Charge to a unit. That 1 wound model gets mowed down by the new shooting rules and you didn't roll a 1 at the beginning of the game. You're sitting on an objective but fail your LD and run because you're not fearless. You no longer have control of that objective if you didn't get mowed down by by another squad because you lost what extra survivability you had left all in 1 model.

The DC may not be able to score but if they slaughter the enemy's scoring units then this point is off set. They are assault oriented units, shock troops if you will, that come stock with FNP, furious charge and Fearless without having to roll or having to buy a 1 wound model to give it to them. They aren't made for holding objectives they are made for killing units that hold objectives.

The best insertion method for them is an expensive vehicle and last I checked Blood Angels are a bit skimpy on assault vehicles. The only ones they have are expensive. I wouldn't call them a death star because their lack of 2+ armor. JPs make them even more of a threat but you pay for it.

DC Dreads are AV 12 not 13. You think this really matters when an Ork Nob that you didn't kill when you dropped down behind an Ork line and killed 6 of the 10 Orks (I'm being generous) you could reach with the blast template opens your AV 10 back panel because you couldn't do anything after you fired it? Even less when it comes to Nurgle Marines. I also don't see how you think the Frag Cannon is the best option.

I disagree with your statement on the SRs as well. It's our one stock flier defense and it's an assault vehicle. Only thing currently that can hit fliers reliably are fortifications and flak. Taking them would depend on your local meta but I wouldn't discount them because they can be shot and have a possibilty to go down. If you're afraid of that happening maybe you're playing the wrong game.

Agreed that reserves are your enemy, which is why I don't do it typically. My Storm Ravens have performed admirably and reliably over all and delivered many a Death Company Marine and Dreadnought to the front line. There's no reason for me not to take them.

I'm not saying take an army of DC with Astorath that would be stupid. Having DC in at least 2k is perfectly viable.

I've never had problems with BA running away. Fearless is of limited value for an army that already has ATSKNF.

BA armies that are not pure mech will have sanguinary priests regardless of the presence of the DC. The fact that the DC have it built in is nice, but does not justify their handicaps of mobilization cost and non-scoring status. Put the priests in the backs of jumper packs and they can only get shot by precision methods. And there still LOS. If you are taking that much fire, you are already in trouble.

Using DC to squish troops is like using a war maul to crush flies. This is another problem of the DC. It's hard to utilize them in a cost effective manner. They must charge to get their tricks, and then whatever the target is gets completely crushed. Well what if the target you need to dislodge is a combat squad of 5 tac marines? The DC is complete overkill. And after they do the killing, instead of being up one point and your enemy down one point, you just put them down one. Why would I pay a surplus to score less? And if the DC get charged by whatever method, they just look like complete failures because they become assault marines.

The frag cannon the most amazing dreadnought weapon in the codex because it relies on torrent of wounds. Even terminators respect the frag cannon for the amount of wounds it can generate. Models counting on cover for a good save can suck it, and it can rend on top of all this. Even further, this weapon can be used after dropping in from a pod. Unlike the DC dread which has delivery system issues as well, just stick this guy in a pod and drop on some poor squads head. Give it the heavy flamer for extra lulz. It's a much more efficient way to get rid of enemy troops. And it adds to armor saturation.

If you fly in a Stormraven with non-trivial troops on it, a good player will find a way to bring it down. AV 12 HP 3 flyer can not stand up to the combined firepower of an entire list. Putting guys inside it justifies this amount of firepower. Especially if DC are riding in it. I guess you could use skies of blood, but that's defeating the whole purpose of the assault transport. Remember, they've already had a turn or two to shoot the rest of your army. They might have fragged all the priority targets already. Leaving nothing left to shoot at but the stormchicken.

Death Company are not all that bad
iv seen them completely wreck a whole necron warrior squad with his Hq in 2 turns

They are bad for the cost and lack of scoring. I'm not talking about their ability to beat people in the head.

Sorry to hijack your thread Scipio Africanus. It wasn't my intention.

Death Company work for some (like me) and not others (like Martel). To call them garbage though? I will never agree with that.

Take the overall suggestions about your list you've read and see how you can tweak it. See how the DC works in your meta and you be the judge.

I tried to address more than just DC. Here's an experiment, though: stop using them for a while and see if you win more, lose more, or stay the same. I'll bet you'll never miss them. Fluff wise, I know this sucks, but 6th edition is a harsh mistress for the BA.

I can tell you this: in mirror match ups, I breathe a sigh of relief when I see DC. I know that if I engineer a charge on them, my opponent just wasted a ton of points that could have been used elsewhere.