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I have been reading the HH series the past couple months and already skipped these books because I wanted to read "Fulgrim", "Legion", and "Mechanicum" all before I read the other 2. I have read here and there that these 2 books are not worth the read for they don't really tie into the main story line at all. However my buddy stated that Descent of Angels is a rather good read. I just wanna see what the rest of the 40k fans think about these books, and if I should read or skip them and just continue on to "Tales of Heresey", or skip that as well and start in on "A Thousand Sons". Future thanks!

The Abyss does tie into the battle of Calth and explains how the Word Bearers could've won the battle if they had had the Furios Abyss. Decent of Angels was not as important. Also I liked tales of Heresy it was ok but Furios Abyss has the coolest World Eater ever so it's worth the read.

YMMV. If you dig the first legion you may get a kick out of Descent of Angels. My own personal view is they were both pretty dull books. If you were to skip them and move onto Tales you wouldnt be missing much. Another one to definitely not bother with IMO would be the Primarchs... damn that book sucked...

Battle for the Abyss doesn't really have much to do with the main story line of the Heresy. But, its a really fun read! I tore through that book because its pretty action packed from start to finish.
Descent of Angels is really just the prehistory of the Dark Angels. Its kind of a nice break away from the 40k type novels in that Caliban was a death world with very little technology. Its more like a book about knights in armor fighting monsters and fueding with each other.
Tales of Heresy has a few decent stories in it. From what I remember though, they don't really progress the main Heresy storyline either.
A Thousand Sons is long and a little boring at times. It took me quite a while to finish it because it reads like watching wall paper peel. At least to me anyway. Overall its a good story with great insights into the fall of thier legion and a couple of other very significant parts of the Heresy story. I would personally rather just have read the juicy parts. I recomend marking the pages incase you ever feel like going back.

See I heard Batte for the Abyss is action packed, I do like SM killing everything action very much. However I read that it is very much like Flight of The Eisenstein, except not Garro obviously. I did very much like that novel though.

DiabolicAl - I almost choose my 1st army as Dark Angels, but found myself a bit more inclined to Blood Angels. Though with the new DA model release and the possibility of me liking Descent of Angels I may just have to start a whole new army...UGH!

gruebot - I do enjoy classic Knights fighting monsters, so I am rather sold on the idea of Descent. I just recently finished "Fulgrim" and I have to say I did not like that one very much. I found it a bit long and boring at times, though I am not that big of fan of Fulgrim or even of Chaos itself. So it being a book all about the bad guys winning around every corner was not really captivating me as much as the 1st 3 books did. So with you stating A Thousand Sons is a tad slow, really just discouraged me to read that. And I was kinda looking forward to it too haha.

Descent of Angels is a painful read. Skip it. It is easily one of he worst BL books.

Battle for the Abyss was a fun read.

Descent of Angels was the book that stopped me reading the Horus Heresy series for about 2-3 years. When I finally came back to Battle for the Abyss- it wasn't great, but its faults were the usual Black Library issues, and didn't dissuade me from reading more.

Battle for the Abyss was very much a ship based novel, so the engagements were more than just your standard Marine bolter-porn fare. I quite liked it.

Battle for the Abyss... I liked it because I like 40k naval action but it didn't really add anything to the Heresy Series (you can go strait on to the battle of Calth and not miss anything) and once the ship stuff is done with it's kinda 'meh'.

Decent of angels is set well before the Heresy but I thought it gave a very good look at the Lion. He is probably the most well developed Primarch imo and it is good to get a close up look at him. Also Decent of Angels does set up the entire DA storyline that is continuing thought the Heresy. I wouldn't call it a MUST read but if you want to skip it maybe come back to it when you get up to the 2nd DA book.

Battle for the Abyss was alright but as i read it there was always something snagging at the back of my mind that this book could have been set in the 40th millennium rather than the 30th. There just just seemed to be no reference to the differing technology or time period from the first 3 HH books or Legion for example.

Descent of Angels was OK too, if you're into DA or maybe want an insight into what the Lion was up to during these times then yeah read it (and it's sequel), but like the previous posters have said if you skip either of these books you will not be missing out on some great secret that will be revealed.

So far i would say these 2 books have been my least favourite of the series which is why i posted a comment but of course that is just my own preference, read 'em and make your own mind up!

If you are a Dark Angels fan then they are certainly worth the read. They explore the Dark Angels and their Primarch to a good depth but I don't feel the book really belongs in the HH series, I think they would work fine as standalone DA novels.

Battle for the Abyss was an enjoyable read for what it is. Not a great literacy treat but good fun nonetheless.

I'm in a similar quandry myself. I have bought the Outcast Dead but have not picked it up to read yet as I've heard no good reviews of it yet. Everyone I've heard talk of it says it's a tad on the crap side:( I usually take the time to read them anyway and make my own opinion but I also have the entire Jack Reacher series I'm working through as well as the 'Path' Eldar books so if it truly is a bit crap I'll skip it.

Is Outcast Dead really as bad as is made out?

I pretty much agree with everyone here. Battle for the Abyss is a really good 40k book but a pretty bad Horus Heresy book. Doesn't do anything to advance your knowledge of the Heresy and doesn't really tie into the story at all (except somewhat retroactively and a little lamely).

Descent of Angels I liked a bit. You learn a lot about the Dark Angels BUT it is sort of a mish mash of fantasy and scifi so it may not be your thing.

 wildboar wrote:
If you are a Dark Angels fan then they are certainly worth the read. They explore the Dark Angels and their Primarch to a good depth but I don't feel the book really belongs in the HH series, I think they would work fine as standalone DA novels.

Battle for the Abyss was an enjoyable read for what it is. Not a great literacy treat but good fun nonetheless.

I'm in a similar quandry myself. I have bought the Outcast Dead but have not picked it up to read yet as I've heard no good reviews of it yet. Everyone I've heard talk of it says it's a tad on the crap side:( I usually take the time to read them anyway and make my own opinion but I also have the entire Jack Reacher series I'm working through as well as the 'Path' Eldar books so if it truly is a bit crap I'll skip it.

Is Outcast Dead really as bad as is made out?

The problem with it is a major timeline inconsistency. And that it doesn't add a ton to the Heresy overall (it does show us a lot more of Terra than we have seen previously though, so that's kinda nice).
Ignoring the timeline thing I'd put it on the same level as Nemesis, not really good by the HH standards but not really bad.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 wildboar wrote:
If you are a Dark Angels fan then they are certainly worth the read. They explore the Dark Angels and their Primarch to a good depth but I don't feel the book really belongs in the HH series, I think they would work fine as standalone DA novels.

Battle for the Abyss was an enjoyable read for what it is. Not a great literacy treat but good fun nonetheless.

I'm in a similar quandry myself. I have bought the Outcast Dead but have not picked it up to read yet as I've heard no good reviews of it yet. Everyone I've heard talk of it says it's a tad on the crap side:( I usually take the time to read them anyway and make my own opinion but I also have the entire Jack Reacher series I'm working through as well as the 'Path' Eldar books so if it truly is a bit crap I'll skip it.

Is Outcast Dead really as bad as is made out?

The problem with it is a major timeline inconsistency. And that it doesn't add a ton to the Heresy overall (it does show us a lot more of Terra than we have seen previously though, so that's kinda nice).
Ignoring the timeline thing I'd put it on the same level as Nemesis, not really good by the HH standards but not really bad.

Hmm that's certainly one of the more positive reviews I've heard from it. I think I will check it out, I liked the areas in some of the short stories that cover Terra so if there's some of that in there then grand.

Thanks

edit: I can't spell

I think we'll only be in a position to judge the DA books when the last one's out ... they're very much a series within a series.

And Battle for the Abyss(mal) sucks. It's easily the worst HH book out there.

Easily.

Although it did have a cool World Eater.

Just my opinion, obviously. If you read it and enjoy it, more power to you.

As with any "should I read this book?" thread, my response is give them a go rather than seeking opinions. There are several books within the Horus Heresy series that some people insist are pointless rubbish, and others insist are essential or just a good read. The Dark Angels novels are prime examples, as are Mechanicum and Legion.

I seem to be the opposite of most of the opinions here...

I found Battle for the Abyss to be extremely tedious... was a hard slog getting through it.

Descent of Angles is a little pulpy, but it does at least set things up for later Dark Angels stories.

Personally I found Descent of Angels to be the worst HH novel I've read thus far. Battle for the Abyss is kinda cool though, less of the "here goes our legion smashing everything again" instead replaced with a few memorable characters from various legions mostly working together.

I recently read Descent of Angels and found it pretty bland compared to the first 4 or 5 books of the HH series and I almost didn't finish it. If they had focused more on Lion El'Jonson and not some uninteresting teenage initiate character then the book probably would have been better.

So far I am enjoying 'Legion' a lot more.

It's better to see Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels as separate from the Heresy and just treat them as other Dark Angels novels that happen to take place before the heresy.

To be honest, I'm not even sure if there will ever been a third one... Spoilers for The Primarchs next:



Battle of the Abyss was entirely pointless I found. As someone said earlier, it might as well have been a rather poor 40k story. Just replace a 1000 Sons character with any other random Space Marine Librarian and you're done.

I thought Descent of Angels was an interesting read because it showed how life was on a legion home planet before it became a slave for the Imperial war machine. It had a much more cheery tone which I thought was a welcome change from 40K.

Now Battle for the Abyss on the other hand...
It took me two weeks to get past a hundred pages! The characters are wooden, uninteresting and I just simply could not relate well with them.

Both are O.K, definitely not on the level of Legion or Mechanicum, but decent. I liked how in BotA there were different LEgions working together, even those who became traitors were helping Ultramarines, because they did not know that the parent Legion betrayed the Emp. Was a fun read, all in all.

Well after reading your posts, I came to the conclusion to start reading Descent of Angels. So far I love it!!! Big fan of the medieval mixture with the futuristic setting. I almost want to start a Dark Angels army after only reading half way through, but I already have a Knights of Blood and Tau army in the works so that dream was short lived...

Do not bother with Battle of the Abyssunless you just have hours of your life that are meaningless with nothing else to spend them on. It was the first HH book I read and was nearly the last. It has no redeeming value. One of the worst full length novels I've ever read, and I still have no idea how or why I finished it, lol. I don't know if it's the worst of the HH series, because I haven't read them all, but it's not worth the paper it was printed on. Counter must have phoned that one in, and it's unsurprising he never wrote another one after that.

The characters are one dimensional cardboard cutouts and lame. The plot is nonsensical, and all of the action and events contrived.

Hahaha it's really that bad of a read? Battle of the Abyss that is. I just keep hearing such mixed reviews on it, though its either "yeah it was ok, give it a shot" or "Utter filth. Do not waste your time". That is why I was more leaning towards Descent first. I really think I will just set my BotA aflame, and use it for warmth as I read one of the other HH novels hehe. Thanks for the feedback!!!

Basically, imagine what the most one dimensionally stereotypical Ultramarines, World Eaters, Space Wolves and Thousand Sons Marine would be like. The Space Wolves get drunk and act like jovial buffoons. The World Eaters snarl nonsensically, have names that sound like someone was saying something while clearing their throats, and randomly massacre civilians in order to get pumped up for battle. It's really that bad. Then put those characters into a bizarre Warp Space chase story and then insert every action story cliche you've ever seen or read, framed around some kind of contrived and formulaic "warriors from wildly different backgrounds forced to fight together and overcome their differences" that is most often seen sporting a 2 star rating in the Action/Adventure section of Netflix Instant.

It's literally the kind of story that would accompany an action shooter game. A plot designed solely to connect fight scenes together where an invincible protagonist fights equally armed and equipped enemies who die in droves. All of the generic Marines in the story are armored in tissue paper while the Captains are nigh invincible until the exact moment it is necessary for them to die.

Edit: The worst part is, the battle scenes aren't even exciting. They're just kinda repetitive and bland with very little tension.

Wow my friend, you are very good at enlightening on the filth that is this book haha. The book sounds horrible. I now really regret going out of my way driving half hour just to go buy it to add to my HH collection. I will be definitely be skipping this book. What are your favorite HH novels? Given the audio stories a listen at all?

Both put me to sleep.

Battle for the Abyss: I liked it, although I wasn't thrilled about the ending. I liked the insight in provided into some of the legions that hadn't been highlighted yet.

Descent of Angels: still my least favorite HH book. I'm sure there's a story there somewhere, but IMO it read like it was written by a high school sophomore for an audience of 10-year-olds.

Battle for the abyss was entertaining at least (though still a comparatively bad book), even if the book had zero consequences to the story line. This was particularly frustrating as at the time there had been no HH plot movement since fulgrim.

Decent of angels is arguably one of, if not the, worst black library novels ever. It read like a fan fiction with plot holes and one dimensional characters. I'd avoid like the plague.