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Hello all,

I am looking into opinions on Eldar Rangers. Being new to 40K (building an army, haven't played any games). The rangers look and sound like an attractive option to take in any game. However, I have heard a lot of negativity in their damage to cost ratio. Are these guys worth taking in games, or are they a disappointment? Are they only useful in very special cases?

Let me know what you think.

10 pathfinders and a farseer in a ruin with guide and fortune = amazingness!

It's still better to guide and fortune your warwalkers. But because so many people ignore the utility of "ignores cover", they are still great. Note that against my BA list, they will be crispy critters. But I'm a weirdo.

They are not something that you want a ton of, 1-2 squads tops.I run a squad every now and again, but I am more partial to 10 guardians with a scatter laser for the same cost.

Rangers are fine for their cost if you want somewhat durable troops that can camp and do something on occassion. Pathfinders are a fine upgrade if you have points to kill, but I always build a list with rangers, never with pathfinders(they are the afterthought)

Rangers work fine in min squads of 5, but can be in larger units. I would never take a pathfinder squad of more than 5.

What are they effective against? Say you have 2 5-man squads of rangers. That's 10 shots if they fire at the same target. If I remember correctly, rangers are AP1 on a 6 and can choose target, but you'll only get 1-2 6's on average for a throw of 10 dice. Anything with armor that good, (terminators, characters) will have invul saves. So, are they useful for picking off stragglers or slow moving units?

Rangers are for taking out special weapons and characters in squads. 6s are precision shots, so you can allocate them wherever. They'll also be an AP 1 shot, so as long as there's no cover, whatever you've decided to shoot at is going to die (characters still get to look out sir, so I rarely allocate to them). They can also take out light vehicles, but it's fairly unlikely, and I only ever use it as a last resort, or if they have nothing else to shoot at.

To respond to your basic question, are they worth the cost: yes!

But, like Dr. Serling said, you will only need 1 or 2 squads of them. I find that they're best at chipping wounds off of MCs and ICs, and causing general havoc amongst infantry.

Deploy them in cover, move them only if you have to, and shoot. They work surprizingly well in support of the advance of Guardians or Dire Avengers.

Imagine this: an enemy squad takes a full volley from the Pathfinders (maybe even losing their sarge to Sniper), then gets a face full of Bladestorm from the Avengers, then gets charged by a unit of Storm Guardians. Which happens to be lead by a Warlock with the Enhance power. Oh, and the army's Farseer used Doom on the enemy unit and Guide on the Pathfinders. If the army has 2 Farseers, then the other Farseer cast Guide on the Avengers and Fortune on the Guardians. This means that the shooting attacks of the Pathfinders and Avengers reroll failed to hit, the Guardians reroll failed saves, and failed to wound from all sources is rerolled. There aren't many things in 40K that could withstand something like this. IF the Dice Gods (hallowed be their names) are in your favor.

Its synergy like this that wins the Eldar their victories. Think of whether or not you want Pathfinders/Rangers in your army in terms of how well they work with the other units you're going to have, not how well they function in isolation.

Units working in isolation is how the Eldar lose.

No. I have 42 rangers fully painted from way back when C:Craftworld was still around. In 3.5 they were amazing. In 4th they got a bit worse, 5th saw a huge drop in power with rending on wound, then 5th just took them down another notch with 5+ cover saves.

10 ranger pathfinders average 6.666 hits (4.444 AP1) then 2.5 wounds AP1/2 with .95 regular wounds. So 3.5 wounds for 240 points. Even with doom giving you ~5 wounds with ~4 AP1/2, you are still getting a terrible return on investment. Compare to a full DA squad with exarch& upgrades +7 more for the same cost.

For survivability, area terrain now gives them a 3+ save. Ever take marines down with scatter walkers? thats what marines do to pathfinders. Then you have the weakness in assault, vulnerability to flamers/hellhounds, and heavy weapon problems.

Currently there is no reason to use pathfinders. DA or GJB are always better investments. 3 units of GJB in reserve with cannons on each is still cheaper than one unit of pathfinders. 3+ save, 5+ jink, MSU for harder target priority, cannons vs vehicles (and trust me, they find vehicle rear armor far more than you would think), and able to do more than sit on one point all game and hope nothing gets close.

So, like everything else eldar, it really seems more of a preference based on play style. I can see that they have their uses but also their weaknesses. Isn't that the key to effective use of your army? Knowing how to properly utilize strengths and weaknesses based on terrain and opponent?

Thanks for the answers guys, I appreciate the insights.

Please keep the opinions coming, being new to 40K I can use all the help and insight that is given.

Just beware the "no cover save" tech.

Comparing these directly to DAs and Guardians is not right.

True, DAs have an effective range just short of a static sniper rifle, but they don't get to pin or snipe special weapons out of a squad.

Rangers are scouts, and can outflank.
So that unguarded objective the enemy is ignoring on their side of the table, jump out and claim it.
Just watch them try and get you off it.
Make sure you have a GJB squad or jump troops in range to help them out if they get attacked.

A squad of DAs could zoom over to the objective and pile out of a Wave Serpent, but it could get shot down on the way.

The best bit about Eldar snipers is the bonus AP1 shot, which other snipers don't get. The Pathfinders get it more often, but a roll of 6 lets you assign that AP1 shot to anyone in the target unit.
A Pathfinder's roll of 5 is AP1, but not assigned.
Any hit of 3 or 4 still lets you get a chance of Rending.

I like them, but I don't run more than 1 squad.

I usually take 2 5-man squads, to babysit objectives or generally cause disruption. I also take jetbike squads to go out and take/contest objectives.

Why? Well you need troops to guard objectives and take them and the other options are usually worse.

Dire Avengers? Even though you get 10 for the price of 5 pathfinders, they will either:
1) need transports to reach enemy objectives or footslog and get shot to bits
2) have to wait for the enemy to reach you if babysitting yours

Guardians? The cheapest but also the most fragile. Low BS, low range, bad armour. Sending them out to capture/destroy stuff takes a lot of support (Farseer, other squads). Sitting them on an objective means they just wait to get assaulted/shot while using their platform weapon for a potshot every turn.

Pathfinders have 36" range and can start shooting from turn 1. They get a great cover save in almost all terrain and if your opponent has other things to worry about then any incidental fire won't shift them.
They will fold from concentrated fire, but what Eldar unit won't?

I tend to run 1 squad of 7-8 beneath 2000pts, and 2 squads above.

They give out a horrible cost/damage inflicted ratio. They die usupported. As someone said on here - flamers negate them.

Against marines I use them to cherry pick men out of squads. They'll never kill a squad with one round of shooting. But Guide them and you've got a good chance of killing the special weapon/sergeant/apothecary - whatever they've got. I just go for whatever gives the squad your shooting the biggest buffs. Then charge with units when the marines have had their teeth pulled.

Rather than looking at cost I look at 4 things when I choose units
First blood
Linebreaker
Slay the Warlord
Objective Holding

You'll rarely (if ever) get first blood with rangers/pathfinders. But they won't give it away cheaply either.
Infiltrate - if done right has the potential for linebreaker at the end of the game.
With LOS, it's rare you'll ever manage to hit someones warlord. If you can wipe out the rest of the warlords squad with something else, it's worth a punt adding to the shooting.
They hold objectives very well. Bar fire.

I always though "defending objectives" misses the whole point of Eldar. Eldar are the most mobile race in the game. Why are we sitting on an objective for 5+ turns? Instead, we should be zooming around picking the fight where we want and leaving as little stationary as possible.

Linebreaker, while possible with rangers, is better done by jetbikes. They can JSJ and can stay out of sight pretty easily

Holding backfield objectives is not a concern. Simply reserve a squad of DA, come on a board edge to bladestorm an advance your opponent makes then waltz over to the objective. If that doesnt work, running +3 squads of 3 jetbikes and reserving all of them means you can turbo over turn 5 for a 3+/4++ on a unit that can very easily hide if you placed objectives correctly.

Sitting rangers in one place is just asking for an enemy to walk over and kill them. Eldar dont have a good way to make defensive front like most marine armies due to T3, AV12 max vehicles, and very specialized units. Instead, eldar should be pushing weak flanks and leaving as little for enemy to segment as possible. Sending your whole army on one flank(with or without eldrad) has won me most of the games i play. Having an expensive stationary unit that depends on an unreliable save type is asking for them to do the same back to you.

Martel732 wrote:
Just beware the "no cover save" tech.

Exactly, had a mate of mine raving about them and while playing a game against my BA's he had Tau and Eldar, I had 5 sternguard in pod with combi meltas, so he reserved his hammerheads, I just podded down took out his pathfinders with no effort then deepstruck 20 assault marines next turn using drop pod locator beacon, sternguard lasted till turn 4 and took out a hammer head to boot. Thunderfires also laugh at cover saves

Don't forget whirwinds.......... they can do it from a safe distance.

If you hold people to the rules for Barrage weapons it is entirely possible to survive fire from Whirlwinds with Rangers and Pathfinders. Remember when placing Rangers or Pathfinders in ruins that any Barrage Weapons that fire at any models in the ruins must place the blast marker correctly.

So if the hole in the Blast Marker is over the upper level of a ruin then the Rangers or Pathfinders on the lower levels cannot be hit by it. The Barrage Weapon always strikes the highest level that is under the hole in the center of the marker.

That is how I get mine to survive things like Whirlwinds, Colossus Siege Mortars, Deathstrike Missile Launchers, or any other Barrage Weapons that ignore cover.

While they ignore cover, they do not ignore the top floor of ruins

So you fire it direct fire mode and use the no cover save ammo? You're still fragged.

Don't mistake this as saying that pathfinders are bad. They're quite good. But you need to identify these threats and try to neutralize them. Hmm. deep striking warp spiders would mess up a whirlwind real good

There is no direct fire mode for Whirlwinds. 5th edition used to have a rule for allowing direct fire on page 58 of the 5th edition rule book. There is no such rule in 6th.

So you cannot fire direct fire with Whirlwinds anymore. The only Barrage Weapons that can are ones that are given specific permission to do so in their codex like the Imperial Guard Basilisk.

If you look in the IG FAQ they even removed references to direct fire from the Colossus Siege Mortar and the Griffon.

I believe it is still an option to fire barrage weapons using the rules for blast weapons, except the rules for cover are different. The barrage rules state that barrage weapons *can* fire indirectly, not that they must do so. Wrong forum, I know, but I don't read that rule that way.

I just found the spot where you can't target the lower floors no matter what. Issue resolved. The whirlwind still gets to subtract BS if there is LOS, however. So one could call that "direct fire" and opposed to not having LOS.

Another use for the drop podded fragnought No hiding from him!

zephoid wrote:
I always though "defending objectives" misses the whole point of Eldar. Eldar are the most mobile race in the game. Why are we sitting on an objective for 5+ turns? Instead, we should be zooming around picking the fight where we want and leaving as little stationary as possible.

Linebreaker, while possible with rangers, is better done by jetbikes. They can JSJ and can stay out of sight pretty easily

Holding backfield objectives is not a concern. Simply reserve a squad of DA, come on a board edge to bladestorm an advance your opponent makes then waltz over to the objective. If that doesnt work, running +3 squads of 3 jetbikes and reserving all of them means you can turbo over turn 5 for a 3+/4++ on a unit that can very easily hide if you placed objectives correctly.

Sitting rangers in one place is just asking for an enemy to walk over and kill them. Eldar dont have a good way to make defensive front like most marine armies due to T3, AV12 max vehicles, and very specialized units. Instead, eldar should be pushing weak flanks and leaving as little for enemy to segment as possible. Sending your whole army on one flank(with or without eldrad) has won me most of the games i play. Having an expensive stationary unit that depends on an unreliable save type is asking for them to do the same back to you.

It works for me

Normally, I run an Iyanden style army. There is more than one way to play Eldar, and no official 'right way'. I like wraith constructs that refuse to die. Sure it hampers mobility but my whole army is based around shooty death.

But mainly, it depends on your meta. Jetbikes die as fast as rangers when hit by flamers, and they only have 12" range. Jetbikes main point is objective snatching late game. If your do this on turn five and you get a turn six, they're dead 90% of the time if your opponant knows what they're doing. I do like the idea of using them to take my home objectives, but if I don't defend my backfield, it'll literally be covered in space marines by the time I get there. Dire Avengers crumble when exposed to fire and with all reserves coming in on a 3+, leaving them off the board to try to take back objectives is too random. If they come on too early, they'll die. And against marines, they're outgunned.
I use rangers - I also back them up with fire prisms, wraithlords, wraithseer, wraithguard and eldrad. If someone gets to my rangers on backfield objectives, then they've had to fight through my entire army already and it's already lost.

I wasn't stating linebreaker as something I must do with them, just that you can get the opportunity during the game if circumstances allow (jetbikes are definately better at it ).
The part on the end was more about unit choice while making an army list. Look less at points and more what you feel you can use effectively.

Again, thanks for the tips.

My plan is to use them to take out heavy weapons troopers and possibly characters. I know that they aren't meant to be a significant kill unit but I can see them being worthwhile as long as they are used correctly and not expected to be the main punch of my army. As of right now I plan on running a harasser type army until I get a little more used to the game and the rules. I feel that rangers will work well in that type of army. Plus the idea of the model is awesome. I love the background story on them.

At 2000 points, I use two squads of 6 Rangers, as well as eight Avengers w/ Exarch in a Serpent and three Jetbikes.

I find that they hold objectives very well, and if I'm doing my job of applying constant pressure with the rest of my army well, then they aren't a high enough priority to get shot until late game, and by that time I should have removed the biggest threats to them. They are also useful for picking out special weapons, as others have said.

Also, if there's nothing else to shoot, it can be worth it to have them take shots at AV 10 or 11. I've destroyed a couple vehicles like that, not many, but a few.

I generally put one squad in a ruin and the second behind an ADL, with an attached Farseer manning the quad gun and dishing out Prescience to War Walkers, also behind the line.