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Im a little confused as to how this works so clarification would be great.
From my understanding, if I have a stealth suit squad (jet pack unit) and attach a IC say an ethereal, do I get to make a thrust move during assault phase?

I though yes because the rules for jet pack makes only the distinctions of units and not on a model to model bases nor does it require all models to have a jet pack, only that it has to be a jet pack unit.

If this is true then a jet pack infantry model attached to a regular non jet pack unit would never be able to make a thrust move correct?

Or did I miss an important rule?

edit: also it looks like from the way im reading it. "jetpack units have the ~ usr" does that meen URS dont transfer over if you attach a jet pack ic to another unit?

I believe that, the unit gets to make a thrust move, but only those models with jump packs, get to actually move, so mr etheral stands there while your stealth suits dance around him. But I could be wrong, so only quote me on the cool parts that a right!

NO! If you have infantry attached to jet infantry there is no permission for the infantry model to move like jet infantry. You can only detach an IC in the movement phase so the unit cannot move away from the IC.

I'm not sure you can justify a thrust move with an attached IC. It says repeatedly in the movement, assault and fall back sections that you move at the speed of the slowest model in a unit. So in the assault phase when not charging the unit moves as fast as the IC and doesn't.

"A jet pack UNIT that is not locked in combat or charging can move up to 2d6" in the assault phase"

That sounds like permission. If attached to a unit that is a jet pack.

But this is all convoluted and really only came up when I wanted to run commander far sight in a group of assault marine for the kicks which is the opposite problem.

The wording for the universal special rules also state “UNIT” which is all just very silly. But till they FAQ, it seems like a legit thing unless some one can point me to a rule that said otherwise.

 Desubot wrote:
"A jet pack UNIT that is not locked in combat or charging can move up to 2d6" in the assault phase"

That sounds like permission. If attached to a unit that is a jet pack.

The wording for the universal special rules also state “UNIT” which is all just very silly. But till they FAQ, it seems like a legit thing unless some one can point me to a rule that said otherwise.

A unit always moves at the speed of it's slowest model, regardless of what phase you are in. In the assualt phase, your slowest model is the Ethereal (who moves 0 inches), meaning your Jetpack units can only move 0 inches.

Even if they COULD jump (which they can't) but you cannot use your jetpack to move out of unit coherency, and since Independent characters can only leave a unit during the movement phase the Suits could not move (as they have to remain in coherency with the Ethereal, who obviously cannot jump).

Well I see what you mean about slowest speed and really I wouldn’t even want to jump my ethereal in all honesty. But the way the RAW states that a jet pack unit (aka the actual unit) has permission to make a 2d6” thrust move not that a model individually requires a jet pack. And an IC joined to a squad is part of the unit until he leaves.

Though silly and kind of pointless (ethereal piggy backing on a stealth suit) I cant see anything stopping it.

(Wouldn’t slowest movement in assault phase always be 2d6 anyway?)

But all this aside my real concern is in the other case where a jet pack IC joins a non jetpack unit of assault marines. Being stuck moving only 6” during movement will make it hard to keep up with 12” jump packs. My real concern is being able to use the jump move during assault to catch up. But the way I read it that’s not possible as the IC is no longer a jet pack unit but a jet pack infantry in a jump pack unit.

Am I wrong in any of these points if not please let me know and site rules (pgs).

thanks

Cheesedoodler wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
"A jet pack UNIT that is not locked in combat or charging can move up to 2d6" in the assault phase"

That sounds like permission. If attached to a unit that is a jet pack.

The wording for the universal special rules also state “UNIT” which is all just very silly. But till they FAQ, it seems like a legit thing unless some one can point me to a rule that said otherwise.

A unit always moves at the speed of it's slowest model, regardless of what phase you are in. In the assualt phase, your slowest model is the Ethereal (who moves 0 inches), meaning your Jetpack units can only move 0 inches.

Even if they COULD jump (which they can't) but you cannot use your jetpack to move out of unit coherency, and since Independent characters can only leave a unit during the movement phase the Suits could not move (as they have to remain in coherency with the Ethereal, who obviously cannot jump).

No, A unit does not move at the speed of the slowest model (that was from 5th edition). Models move as per their type, regardless of anything else. They still must maintain coherency so it's possible they are limited to how far they can move, but you can have infantry IC with bike squad and all the bikes can move 12" still and could still turbo boost if they desire, but they must maintain coherency with everyone else.

Page 10, for reference.

DIFFERENT MOVEMENT DISTANCES WITHIN A UNIT
Sometimes, a unit will contain models that move at different
speeds. when this is the case, each model can move up to its
maximum movement allowance so long as it remains in unit
coherency.

Right the slowest movement was for the last response. The bikes I agree as it states in its rules that a bike may move the way it does.

The plain and simple question is does the wording for jet packs make any difference to how it would normally be used. All instances for addition movement rules and even USR are all are worded in “units” and no instances of single or individual models while every other unit type actually writes it as a model bases.

 Desubot wrote:
Right the slowest movement was for the last response. The bikes I agree as it states in its rules that a bike may move the way it does.

The plain and simple question is does the wording for jet packs make any difference to how it would normally be used. All instances for addition movement rules and even USR are all are worded in “units” and no instances of single or individual models while every other unit type actually writes it as a model bases.

Ok, but an IC attached to them that does not have a jet pack does not make them a non-jet pack unit.

Look at jump unit rules, everything there states "model" except for fall back...so if an IC is attached to them do they not use their jump packs to fall back then? Also, jump UNITS are bulky...so if an IC is attached, are they not bulky then?

You see where I'm going with this? The line of thinking that seems to be followed here is filled with folly.

 Kevin949 wrote:

Page 10, for reference.

DIFFERENT MOVEMENT DISTANCES WITHIN A UNIT
Sometimes, a unit will contain models that move at different
speeds. when this is the case, each model can move up to its
maximum movement allowance so long as it remains in unit
coherency.

How does this not answer your question?? Anyone in the unit with the jet pack can use the assault move rule so long as they maintain coherency. So the stealth suits can hop along all they want as long as they maintain coherency with the ethereal. The only way the ethereal can move in the assault phase is if you're declaring an assault since he doesn't have a jet pack.

From the information given on another thread concerning non tau IC joining a tau unit for things like mark lights states that a IC joining a unit is now part of that unit rules and otherwise meaning marker lights work for that IC even though it isn’t a Tau

And as I stated the rules for jet packs assault jump makes no mention of model but as a whole unit. If one IC turns a unit into no longer a jet pack unit does that mean I completely forfeit the ability to use a thrust move?

Like I said it comes down to the wording. Everything is written as “unit” not models even the USR. I highly doubt this was intentional and probably just a mistake but until it is FAQed to say models am I not allowed to assault jump my Crisis suit IC that has joined a assault marine squad during the assault phase (not the marines but the crisis suit only)

At this point I'm not sure you're even reading replies to your posts.

Movement is made model by model, whether they're the same type or different.

So once again, the jet pack models may do as they please so long as they maintain coherency. The non jet pack model will still move following whatever type he is. If he's not jet pack infantry then the only move he's making in the assault phase is an assault.

I just want to make sure that everything is kosher as god help me the second I assault jump my crisis suit in a non jet pack squad it will raise eyebrows and will stop the game really quickly. Basically it’s the reverse thinking. Like say if a crisis suit shas’o joins a group of vanilla marine tac squad. Why cant I use marker lights to benefit my shas’o. since I joined it is no longer a tau “unit” that is the part that concerns me as that is what other people are stating happens. I understand that a model can be a unit so I think individually it works. But the second they start jumping into things it makes problems.
edit:And if a non tau IC in a tau unit of fire warriors can benefit from maker lights why cant a IC joined to a Jet pack unit not trust move even though the rules states that it can.

 Desubot wrote:
I just want to make sure that everything is kosher as god help me the second I assault jump my crisis suit in a non jet pack squad it will raise eyebrows and will stop the game really quickly. Basically it’s the reverse thinking. Like say if a crisis suit shas’o joins a group of vanilla marine tac squad. Why cant I use marker lights to benefit my shas’o. since I joined it is no longer a tau “unit” that is the part that concerns me as that is what other people are stating happens. I understand that a model can be a unit so I think individually it works. But the second they start jumping into things it makes problems.

Correct, if a Tau IC joins a tac squad then he's effectively a tactical marine. He maintains his status as jet pack infantry and can still make his nonassault assault move. But it doesn't make much sense that 1 out of 11 models makes the entire unit Tau, nor would it make sense if he made all those tac marines jet pack infantry.

I believe the answers you're looking for are on pg. 39 and pg. 63 in the BRB.

Edit: To answer your last question, a character maintains his unit type regardless of what unit he joins. And unit type doesn't mean Tau, SM, Necron, ect. Unit type refers to infantry, bike, jet pack, etc.

yes i understand that 1 out of 11 tau model.

i am not stating that 1 tau makes a assault squad a jet pack unit. im trying to state the reverse as there was no limitations on the rules for thrust jump and only refrenced the UNIT not individual models compared to other unit types. (ie its a flying etherial)

besides from this question which i really dont care about though am curious to see if anyone can deny it. i will play the IC jet pack infintry as a unit while in another unit. allowing me to jump that model only in the assault phase

edit to your edit and thank you that was the simple answer that i needed for the main part that i was concerned with.

This is interesting to me as I just bought some Stormboyz. Is this a Tau book issue or a core rule book issue with IC in jetpack units? It would seem counterintuitive that the IC could "jump" with the unit without the same equipment.

It is a pointlessly worded rule in the 6th ed core rule book under unit types for jet pack on pg 47. thrust move is the part that is bugging me.

also i read pg 39 and 63, i couldn't find the part that states that a IC retains there unit type.

 Desubot wrote:
It is a pointlessly worded rule in the 6th ed core rule book under unit types for jet pack on pg 47. thrust move is the part that is bugging me.

also i read pg 39 and 63, i couldn't find the part that states that a IC retains there unit type.

Pg 63, characters and moving.

It does not have that exact phrase you're looking for, but you can extrapolate it from what is there.

Again though, if you keep this line of thinking and only look at directly what is written then you run into the issues I mentioned before. Would you care to address any of them? (Such as the UNIT being bulky, but not if a non-jump/jet character is present, etc)

More importantly where is the rules that says an IC changes it's model type from infantry to jet infantry?

 liturgies of blood wrote:
More importantly where is the rules that says an IC changes it's model type from infantry to jet infantry?

That is not the point being brought up, the point is that the unit maintains it's type just as the IC does. Neither stops being whatever they are and neither starts being something they're not.

 Kevin949 wrote:


Pg 63, characters and moving.

It does not have that exact phrase you're looking for, but you can extrapolate it from what is there.

Again though, if you keep this line of thinking and only look at directly what is written then you run into the issues I mentioned before. Would you care to address any of them? (Such as the UNIT being bulky, but not if a non-jump/jet character is present, etc)

Thank you though on a personal note
I like making sure of rules 100% before I try it. It is why I try not to let things go as implied as I like to be able to point to a rule and end an argument as it starts (nothing makes a active game unfun as much as a 2hour discussion on 1 point for me (I rather do it online while I am at work))

But as strict RAW it clearly states that the unit has the bulky special rule which in fact does not make sense at all it clearly breaks down. The only way jet packs would work properly is if they re wrote the rules as per model instead of unit. Why they wrote it that way is beyond me.

Il bring it up at my LFG but all I can really say is that raw its broke.

 btr75 wrote:
This is interesting to me as I just bought some Stormboyz. Is this a Tau book issue or a core rule book issue with IC in jetpack units? It would seem counterintuitive that the IC could "jump" with the unit without the same equipment.

Stormboys are Jump Infantry, this thread is about Jet Pack units.

 Desubot wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:


Pg 63, characters and moving.

It does not have that exact phrase you're looking for, but you can extrapolate it from what is there.

Again though, if you keep this line of thinking and only look at directly what is written then you run into the issues I mentioned before. Would you care to address any of them? (Such as the UNIT being bulky, but not if a non-jump/jet character is present, etc)

Thank you though on a personal note
I like making sure of rules 100% before I try it. It is why I try not to let things go as implied as I like to be able to point to a rule and end an argument as it starts (nothing makes a active game unfun as much as a 2hour discussion on 1 point for me (I rather do it online while I am at work))

But as strict RAW it clearly states that the unit has the bulky special rule which in fact does not make sense at all it clearly breaks down. The only way jet packs would work properly is if they re wrote the rules as per model instead of unit. Why they wrote it that way is beyond me.

Il bring it up at my LFG but all I can really say is that raw its broke.

I do agree with you that I also have no idea why they wrote the jet pack entries as "unit" but the jump pack entries as "model", it does not make sense.

I still feel that it's not right to look at just a piece of the rule in a vacuum as it does have implications elsewhere that cause other issues, so generally it is best to take the path of least resistance, even if that does not completely jive with what is written in the book.

 grendel083 wrote:

 btr75 wrote:
This is interesting to me as I just bought some Stormboyz. Is this a Tau book issue or a core rule book issue with IC in jetpack units? It would seem counterintuitive that the IC could "jump" with the unit without the same equipment.

Stormboys are Jump Infantry, this thread is about Jet Pack units.

Thanks for the heads up. I need to read up on them and assemble them.