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Hey guys, I'm new to the tabletop but I've been a fan of the lore since i was 11 or 12. Anyways to the topic on hand, I was looking for some help with which HQ's would be the best to use out of the armies I will be playing against. The HQ's I have are Varro Tigurius, Vulkan He'stan, Pedro Kantor, Darnath Lysander, Marneus Calgar, and Cato Sicarius. The armies my friends play are Necrons with Imotek and a Lord with res orb, Orks(haven't played against yet), Eldar with I think Eldrad and Firelord he also uses Avatar occasionally, Chaos Marines with Typhus and Abaddon and Khârn. I'm new to the tabletop so I'm unsure which HQ's fill the spot to work best against these armies. I tried to beat a Nightbringer with Marneus and had terrible rolls when I charged and didn't turn out well, I challenged Khârn with Marneus and won due to lucky invulnerable save rolls. Those were 1.5k point games, well anyways any help or advice would be appreciated.

Here are the ones I know well. Ill give you my suggestions.

Varro Tigurius
Run him as a normal librarian. Hes your bread and butter HQ, and use him more than any other. Librarians are very good HQs in both the last edition and this one.

Vulkan He'stan
You need to tool your entire army around Vulcan to use him well. Vulcan lists used to be huge, but now I think they are less effective than C:SM marines due to the advantage combat tactics now gives you.

Darnath Lysander
Excellent beatstick model. If your looking for a guy to hang out with terminators he is your man. Bolter drill is a nice perk to the terminators as well.

Marneus Calgar
A personal favorite of mine. He lost some of his effectivness in this edition. God of War used to be better than fearless as it allowed you to never take fearless wounds. Now fearless wounds don't apply so that ability is moot.

Calgar, like Lysander, is a beatstick in combat. He can go toe to toe with nearly any IC in the game and smash them into a pulp. Unlike Lysander, Calgar can wear power armor, which can be very useful when your trying to stick him in a rhino.

I was using Cato Sicarius and Marneus Calgar in those matches but Cato didn't do much at all and I was too afraid to send him against Typhus or Khârn where his Talassarian Warblade special rule wouldn't ID them and they both have power weapons as well. So I had a feeling it wouldn't have been a good sight to put Sicarius vs those 2.

I would say try out non character HQs first to see how you like them. Then, decide which aspects of the characters can make your regular HQ and army more effective. It really depends on your list, as they should be build to maximize character special rules rather than just adding a character to an existing army.

Don't be fooled thinking characters are a must just because everyone else uses them. A regular librarian, as stated above, can be extremely effective and cost a lot less than a character.

Pedro is another fun character you can build an army arround. Having sternguard (really killy) count as scoring is a big bonus

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
I would say try out non character HQs first to see how you like them. Then, decide which aspects of the characters can make your regular HQ and army more effective. It really depends on your list, as they should be build to maximize character special rules rather than just adding a character to an existing army.

Don't be fooled thinking characters are a must just because everyone else uses them. A regular librarian, as stated above, can be extremely effective and cost a lot less than a character.

this is about right.

Stay away from foot or jump captains, they end up costing as many points as special characters, which are usually better and provide army buffs.
Chaplains are meh. Maybe with assault terms they'd be alright, and possibly with assault marines, but assault marines aren't great either... so you'd have two meh units trying to make eachother decent.

Librarians are fantastic. 1, psyker defense, not great psyker defense, but some is better than none. Also, the universal powers are very good.
Kantor is great. Cause sternguard are great and making them better is great (see. greatness)

I strongly disagree with the sentiment that lysander and calgar are good. Lysander would be great for... 170 points, and without bolter drill. Bolter drill on a CC specialist though?!? come on.. Also, losing combat tactics is something that should be replaced by a big gain, but I don't see it from lysander. I'm pretty sure that 200 points of TH/ss terms could wipe him.

Calgar is even more expensive. though better, i think. But... I mean come on, he costs as much as a land raider... being able to choose to pass or fail moral checks can be fantastic, especially when it comes to getting out of the melee arena that our marines are often so ill suited to. Really don't think he's worth the cost though.

I frequently use generic libbies for BA. But I think C:SM has much better special characters for 6th edition.

I often use Lysander with a squad of Sternguard. The bolter drill combined with the special ammo can really wreck stuff at range, and the sternguard are no slouches in combat. Put Lysander in a squad of 10 with a PF sgt, let the good captain deal with any challengers (he is very good at this), and let the Sternguard deal with the rest. Between the special ammo overwatch shots (reroll misses), the 20 attacks from the sternguard, plus the beast that is Lysander, many assault units will think twice before going after them.

Of course, putting Lysander in with Hamminators is nice because he can, again, deal with any challengers, but I feel its a bit redundant. He's better suited for tactical terminators in large numbers.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I often use Lysander with a squad of Sternguard. The bolter drill combined with the special ammo can really wreck stuff at range, and the sternguard are no slouches in combat. Put Lysander in a squad of 10 with a PF sgt, let the good captain deal with any challengers (he is very good at this), and let the Sternguard deal with the rest. Between the special ammo overwatch shots (reroll misses), the 20 attacks from the sternguard, plus the beast that is Lysander, many assault units will think twice before going after them.

Of course, putting Lysander in with Hamminators is nice because he can, again, deal with any challengers, but I feel its a bit redundant. He's better suited for tactical terminators in large numbers.

While this is incredibly effective, its way too many points sunk into a non-scoring unit with no invulnerable save (besides Lysander). Having Lysander in there to prevent (or improve) assault is sort of silly as your Sternguard should be avoiding it as much as possible (to make use of their ammunition) or using dedicated assault units to protect them. It's just not a focused squad, but don't get me wrong it is still very effective.

If you're going to use this, keep it in high point games. But as a beginner, such as the OP, I wouldn't recommend it.

I agree. Keep it simple to minimize your losses when your warlord gets instagibbed. I guess I am still scarred from a lowly Nob power clawing my brand new Dante to death. It was a valuable lesson: don't invest too much in a guy who doesn't have eternal warrior

Martel732 wrote:
I agree. Keep it simple to minimize your losses when your warlord gets instagibbed. I guess I am still scarred from a lowly Nob power clawing my brand new Dante to death. It was a valuable lesson: don't invest too much in a guy who doesn't have eternal warrior

which lysander does, but still.

As much as the whole sternguard thing is great, for 100 points less you get a librarian in there that lets you keep your precious combat tactics.

Oh, I forgot that! Why the hell does Lysander get to be cooler than Dante? Seriously? No disrespect to Lysander, but still!

Pedro and Vulkan are my favorites.

With Vulkan, as another poster said, you have to build the army around him (flamers of all sizes, meltas of all sizes, and hammers).

With Pedro, you can make Sternguard troop units. I love Sternguard because they can really bring the pain with CHEAP combiweapons and their special ammo.

I wish more marine units had the utility of the sternguard. They are probably my favorite unit in the whole game. With combi-meltas, they threaten literally anything in the game. Except flyers I guess. Still in 5th mode a bit

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:

While this is incredibly effective, its way too many points sunk into a non-scoring unit with no invulnerable save (besides Lysander). Having Lysander in there to prevent (or improve) assault is sort of silly as your Sternguard should be avoiding it as much as possible (to make use of their ammunition) or using dedicated assault units to protect them. It's just not a focused squad, but don't get me wrong it is still very effective.

If you're going to use this, keep it in high point games. But as a beginner, such as the OP, I wouldn't recommend it.

While I readily admit it is a very pricey unit, its effectiveness is usually worth it. Most of the games I play in are 1750-2000 points, so its a big chunk, but not prohibitvely expensive. I do hate that it holds Lysander back a bit, but I tend to use Sternguard as a forward advancing unit in my army, so they are often in the thick of things (to take advantage of rapid fire). As a result, they get charged, and putting Lysander in there is the best form of insurance.

As far as a points sink into a non-scoring unit, any use of Lysander is going to end up with the same result. Hamminators + Lysander is only slight less expensive than the Sternguard option, and while far more dedicated and nasty as feth if they get the charge, its also easier to avoid and generally won't start generating kills until the 3rd or 4th turn. Tacinators + Lysander is a better use of Lysander IMO as the stormbolter rerolls are useful and they can still deliver the pain in the assault. All three options are non-scoring and very pricey, but the terminator options are more survivable, albeit it probably a bit less killy than the Sternguard over the course of the game.

Unfortunately, the HQ slot is a necessary evil, and its going to cost you 100-200 points no matter if its a special character or generic. Most generic HQ options end up costing close to 150 anyway after upgrades, so why not spend the few extra points and greatly enhance a key unit in your army. By themselves, they are a total waste of points, but put with the right unit, they can turn the tide of a battle. Even Librarians, a great HQ choice, are best built to enhance a unit in your army (they work great with terminators) than to be a stand alone. I like to run a terminator Librarian with my Hamminators to give them some ranged attacks after deepstriking or as they advance. Deepstrike plus Vortex can equal lots of pain for your opponent (just don't fail that psychic test!)

Thanks for the advice everyone. I believe I should get a few more units before I use Vulkan since you have to completely build around him and I only have 1 Squad of Assault Terminators and 20 Tactical marines. So for now I'll probably run Varro Tigurius and Pedro Kantor as my HQ's. I'll probably only use Varro until I can get a Librarian with a cheaper point value since Varro doesn't have Terminator armor.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I often use Lysander with a squad of Sternguard. The bolter drill combined with the special ammo can really wreck stuff at range, and the sternguard are no slouches in combat. Put Lysander in a squad of 10 with a PF sgt, let the good captain deal with any challengers (he is very good at this), and let the Sternguard deal with the rest. Between the special ammo overwatch shots (reroll misses), the 20 attacks from the sternguard, plus the beast that is Lysander, many assault units will think twice before going after them..

That's an excellent use for Lysander. Do you deep strike him off the terminator armor, then just pod/rhino the sternguard near him?