Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi, ok so ill make this quick as i can. Im a chick who has never played D&D, Magic, Warhammer....nothing. My husband does. Because i am arty and craftsy, he has asked me to build a warhammer board or table or whatever you call it. I know there are supposed to be high rise areas and places to cover. Ive looked up pictures of tables that people have built and theyre either really super amazing and HUGE or theyre really crappy looking. SO! i want to know what the basic rules are for size, how many places high vs cover. What counts as cover and what doesnt. Can something that is higher (on top of a bulding) ALSO be cover (behind the building) (trees, buildings, ditches, boats, rivers, rocks, hills) How do players know how big a space is, do i need to paint a grid on it? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks! -kate

I don't know about warhammer fantasy, but everything in 40k is done by true line of sight. You look from the model's eyes and see what it sees. If a target model is partially obscured behind something, whether it's part of the table, another model, etc, it has cover. If a model is sitting on top of a high terrain feature it can probably see more of the table from that elevated position, but doesn't get any specific rules beyond that. So, yes, depending on the size of a building, it could be both a high position (if you can place models on the roof) and provide something to take cover behind. There are some rules about how good a piece of cover is (for example, a fortress wall gives more of a benefit than a bush), but in general there aren't any grids or approximations about what counts as cover/hills/etc. You should ask your husband what layout he wants in general, but you don't need to worry about an inch of height here and there or other precise details.

The one thing that should also be mentioned is that modular terrain is best, since a single layout can get boring eventually. Unless you're really good at building terrain and creating a diorama table where everything is integrated into an awesome scene you'll probably want to make a fairly flat base for the table and then build a bunch of removable scenery (ideally all in the same theme) that you can place anywhere you want on the base.

ive thought about that. making the large pieces loose and not attached so that they are movable for different games. What about rivers? can the pieces move through rivers or will i need bridges?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also, i keep seeing things about forge world, codice?, white dwarf, etc. Do these different ways of play affect the art of the board? Can i just make it grass with hills and rocks and rivers and trees? or a lava and volcanic rock board? can it all be incorporated into one? Whats the difference in all the different ones?

katiedoll wrote:
ive thought about that. making the large pieces loose and not attached so that they are movable for different games.

You'll also want to do that for the small pieces. For example, it's much better to make that small pile of rocks a separate piece so you can move it out of the way if you want to put a building there instead.

What about rivers? can the pieces move through rivers or will i need bridges?

Units can move through rivers and other water features, but it will slow them down and there's a chance of dying. You'll probably want to include bridges (make them separate pieces so you can place them at different points on the river) that are at least 4-5" wide to allow models to fit on them to create a "safe" crossing worth fighting over. And, to avoid having one side of the table always be better than the other, you should try to make the river go roughly down the middle of the table.

also, i keep seeing things about forge world, codice?, white dwarf, etc. Do these different ways of play affect the art of the board?

They're just different sources for new units to add to your army and sometimes special scenarios. Unless your husband has specifically mentioned a mission from one of those books that he wants to play, and the mission requires a specific terrain feature, they won't have any impact on what kind of table you play on.

Can i just make it grass with hills and rocks and rivers and trees? or a lava and volcanic rock board? can it all be incorporated into one? Whats the difference in all the different ones?

Mostly it's just an aesthetic difference, as long as there's a good mix of various hills/cover/etc (as separate pieces) available, enough flat space to put models down, etc. You can come up with your own rules for, say, fighting on a volcanic wasteland, but you can also just use it as an empty field. There's no rules preventing you from mixing them, it just might look a bit weird to have a river of lava running through the middle of a nice scenic forest.

I agree with what Peregrine has been saying. You try to keep the basic board as simple as possible, just with a good, esthetically pleasing theme (steppe, desert, volcanic, ash waste, grassland, swampy, cityscape...) but go nuts on the pieces like hills, forest clumps, buildings and such.

I even made a river that had a slow rising lip that meant you could hide minis in it, yet the rising slope was soft enough that you didn't feel would topple minis or regiments. PM me if you want the technique.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and for starters, you're aiming at either 8' X 4' or 6' X 4' for the size. I tend to prefer it a bit longer so there is a staging area for rolling dice, mini set-up and rulebook/template/ruler laying.

This is warhammer fantasy I assume yes? In this case, space is key. You need space to move blocks of infantry, pivot, charge, create line of sight to shoot and being able to be flanked. Units require trees to be removable as they often march or charge through forests.

I would try to focus on an idea of an open battlefield that has an interesting setting like a farm or sparse ruin or forest glades then begin considering how you're going to form the terrain to cause line of sight blockage, choke points and the like.

I'd suggest keeping your 'board' simple. If you don't enjoy the thought of even building a flat table that's flocked, look into battle mats. Games Workshop sell a remarkably well made and well priced mat, which you simply roll over a flat surface like a table. There's other sources as well, like Zuzzy mats, who make latex rubber textured mats that need some simple painting.

Regarding terrain, you can even go the rought of pre painted and made terrain. A popular choice is Battlefield in a Box from Galeforce 9.

They have themed terrain sets, for example, rivers, forests, hills and rock formations that are based with brown dirt and convey a normal green grass and dirt battlefield (and fit right in on GW's battlemat). They also have desert themed terrain, ruined gothic buildings (which fit into 40k), and more. Simply buy them, flock the dirt areas with grass to match your mat, and done.

Building a good table with a consistent theme doesn't have to involve many hours of constructing a sculpted table or building unique terrain, just a conscientious selection of terrain and mat options available.

http://www.youtube.com/feed/UCxCvZZcow905ZOLaG5Ok5tA this man makes a mean board. It's all in Spanish, but you don't need to understand it to appreciate the work. Usually his work has a flat table plus removable terrain pieces, all following a theme.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Oh and for starters, you're aiming at either 8' X 4' or 6' X 4' for the size. I tend to prefer it a bit longer so there is a staging area for rolling dice, mini set-up and rulebook/template/ruler laying.

Indeed. I'm using 2x folding tables that are, when pushed next to each other, 6 feet long and 5ish feet wide.

Also, you probably want to cover at least 25-35% of that space with some sort of terrain. Buildings, bunkers, and things like that should be at least 3 or 4 inches tall, and anything over 8-10 inches is probably a waste. If you make area terrain, like a round piece with trees in it, lets say - you need a little room in between the trees to actually put army mans into, unless it's going to be impassable terrain.

Do you have any thoughts on specific features you're planning on doing?

Also, are his army guys holding guns, or holding swords and shields and stuff like that?

You will likely make some woods, thus I recommend either using magnets or basing trees in order to remove them whenever a unit wants to step into the forest - did the same and it looks good *and* is playable!

A few of things I have learnt from the numerous boards I've built over the years

1) Don't try to build a board that is 6x4, instead build a bunch of 2x2 boards that allow for some changeing things around.

2) If you do put rivers on the board make sure "mouth" (i.e. the point it enters/exits that board segement) of each river is in the same spot (e.g. 10cm from the edge) as this means you can always mix and match, if you put them all in the middle then you get even more options. What they do within the actual board segment is up to you.

3)If you put a hill on a board don't have it connecting to an edge as that board then always has to go to the side, limiting potential options. You could maybe get away with this if you "design" the edge of the hill so that if it is in the centre of the board it looks like a cliff side.

4)If you are making "static" forests (i.e. fixed in place and not removable) then make it resonable large and only put the trees in a ring around the outside - this gives you protection against "true line of sight" (a game rule that would otherwise make forests pointless) and also leaves a nice open space in the middle that you can place the models in.

5) Bridges arn't required for battles, but they can make for interesting focal points. Ask your partner how wide they would need to be as this will change depending on the game he is playing.

6)There is no reason you couldn;t mix a lava 2x2 "segement" with a field 2x2 "segement" other than it may look a little harsh if the board suddenly changes coulour - you can mitigate this a little by putting a kind of "dead grass" effect around the edge of every board which gives it a more gentle transition. Little hard to explain this one but hopefully you get what I'm saying.

7) Ask your partner for some examples of terrain used in the game, this will show if you need bunkers/trenches or farms and mills.

Thats the basics that come to mind at the moment, I'm sure there is probably more I could add but as I'm not working on anything right now they arn't at the front of my mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and don't make rivers too big, in scale terms most rivers would actually be streams (i.e 1 man across, at most 2) this may not be quite "realistic" but tends to make for a better quality game.

i never thought about building smaller boards to push together. That opens up a lot more possibilities of play with it being rearrangable. hmmmm. thats definitely something ill have to do. I had also been thinking about painting the base with magnetic paint and making all the removable pieces magnetic. You guys definiety have a lot of good ideas. My husband has mentioned a few things to me. First we need to figure out if there is a demand for this. He used to have a warhammer army but not anymore. We are both in the minitary so we first have to find out if there are more people on base who are interested in getting together and playing. Im sure there are im just not quite sure how to get the word out. There is a card shop in town that they all get together and play Magic so i think ill just hang up a sign with an email address to first see how many people are interested. No point painting an army and making a table is there is no one else to play with lol. One question, how big is the biggest piece? i know that if i were to make an opening in trees or a bridge that it has to be big enough to play on/over/around. What is the width those things would need to be to allow the largest pieces through? -Kate


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i was also thinking about....like...a trench? it i put a thin foam, like floral (not that big white craft foam) on top of a piece and scraped some of it out id have a nice WW1 style trench. are these used in these games? im assuming that if units can get ontop of a building that they can also climb out of a trench?

With regards to size it depends on the game, for Warhammer 40k I believe the biggest single model has a base of 60mm, some vehicles are wider than that I believe, though not everything has to be accesible to everything, indeed a bridge that only "small" foot troops can cross can add a nice tactical element to games.

Historical or fantasy games tend to operate a "closed formation" system where models have to rank up in a unit. As such an individual base might only be 25mm, but a bridge would need to be large enough for 4/5 people to pass (i.e 125mm). different systems also operate diferent scales, 28mm is probably the most common, but there is also plenty in the 15mm/10mm/6mm scale games too.

Trenchs are great for modern war games or Sci-fi and are definately something you should make if thats what you plan on playing.

Don't forget to toss up a sign at the CAC (or which ever branch of the service equivalent your base has). The various services centers generally have a bulletin board that they allow people to put things like this on (Bowling Alley, NCO Club, Skills Development Center...). You will likely be surprised by just how many people are gamers on most bases.

In terms of the largest stand size - I don't think there is a specific limit (and if there is it may well change) but you generally don't see units with frontages greater than 8 inches across. The thing is though is that quite often you don't want to always make things that wide. By varying the width, it forces players to reform or choose a different path in order to get across brides, through gorges and what not.

Putting your non-gaming wife to work building you scenery. I love it!

katiedoll wrote:
i was also thinking about....like...a trench? it i put a thin foam, like floral (not that big white craft foam) on top of a piece and scraped some of it out id have a nice WW1 style trench. are these used in these games? im assuming that if units can get ontop of a building that they can also climb out of a trench?

Trenches are not really part of Fantasy - though you do have other fortifications which may come into play.

If he is interested in 40K - they have a pretty strong position there...especially given armies like the Death Korps of Krieg which are based on WWI trench fighters.

I would skip the floral foam though. It isn't an ideal material for terrain making, and there are better materials available for cheaper. In particular, you can get the sheets of insulation foam (pink/blue/yellow extruded polystyrene as opposed to the white expanded polystyrene). You can use that for making hills and valleys/rivers. It is light and fairly strong...plus cheap enough to cover large areas without breaking the bank.

Extruded Polystyrene is absolutely what you want to look for. It is an easy material to work with once you get the hang of it and it is relatively inexpensive. If you are up north, finding it at the local hardware store should not be a problem. Down in the south it takes a little more effort to get than picking it off the shelf at Home Depot, but not much.

Extruded Poly can be shaped roughly with a utility knife and refined with fine grit sandpaper. A hot wire cutter is preferable, but not necessary.

A note on gaming terrain: always consider how miniatures will interact with the terrain piece before you build it. If your hill sides are sloped too steeply, for example, miniatures will topple over and can't be placed on it, which can cause problems.

You may want to grab some extruded poly and play with various shapes and designs by moving your husband's miniatures around on the pieces to see how well they can stand up.

If you glue pieces of extruded poly together, I recommend a thin layer of wood glue. Apply weight to the two pieces and allow the glue time to set.

One way to make very 'gamey" hills is to cut out shapes of extruded poly that are progressively smaller, slope the edges of each piece leaving a broad flat area on top, and then glue the pieces on top of each other.

This creates a terraced look, but the sloped edges helps to make it look more pleasing visually, and there is plenty of flat area to put miniatures. You can also leave some of the edges sheer and make them look like exposed rock faces.

2x2 sections is a good idea, assuming that you have a table surface large enough to support them. Modular tiles gives flexibility, but it will also allow you to easily make a 4x4 surface for smaller sized games if you want to do that.

We wrote:
Putting your non-gaming wife to work building you scenery. I love it!

lol i know. but im artsy and craftsy so i dont mind -kate

Before you do anything, do some google image searches online for Warhammer Terrain Board. Or, click here to start. Get an idea for what direction you want to go.

Grid: Don't put a grid on the table. That's not needed for Warhammer fantasy or 40k. Rulers and tape measures are used to determine how far apart units are.

Customizable or Modular is the key. Most boards you'll see are flat. It's the terrain that you put on top of the boards that you make and use in the game. However, as you see in the image search above, you can make some very interesting terrain into the board. Just make sure you do something like 2x2 board so that you can mix them up each time.

Pick a theme. Desert, ruined city, forest, grassy hills, and so on. You can make any of these interesting. Mix them up, too. The ruins of a town set against a forest backdrop. Make 4 of your 2x2 boards a forest theme and the remaining 2 cobble stone. You could then make a number of hills with trees on them as well as some ruined town houses to spice up the board. Just some ideas.

Make a mix of Line-of-sight blocking terrain and area terrain. Line of Sight blocking might be a 2 or 3 story building, a large hill, a bunker, or a rocky out cropping for a desert mesa board. Area terrain might be a 1'x1' patch with a bunch of trees, a ruined building with rubble around it, and so on.

Make enough to cover about 1/3 to 1/2 of the board. In most games, you won't use it all. In fact, you really only need to cover 1/4 of the board as you need plenty of black space to move your armies around. This just gives you extra pieces so that you can make the board different each time.

Have fun! Post pictures here to get feed back. I think you'll find most people here to be helpful. You can also search Dakka's gallery for terrain pieces to get ideas here.

im thinking of making the 2x2s flat and with magnetic paint...one side green and grassy with a village/forest theme and the other side a lava/devastated wasteland/stone rubble structures. That way they can play either side and have enough terrain/trees/buildings/etc that coordinate with either side. So they can play a lava side with dead trees and ruins and then, since its magnetic, take em all off, flip the boards over, and have a grassy field that they can put the trees and cobblestone houses and such on. I think that would be cool. -kate

Not sure on the purpose of the magnets, though. The hills and things aren't going to move around when you're playing the game. I've never played on a board that required magnets.

well i suppose the only point of the magnets would be be so they dont move during a game. But, again, ive never played so i dunno if thats an issue or not. Plus i think it would just be a tad cooler. When i make something i wanna do it right and cool the first time and not make a crappy one that after its done someone goes "oh wouldnt it be cool if...." and then its too late cause its after the fact. Id rather just make it cool from the get-go. -kate


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh and another thing. off the current topic, but, again, as a chick who plays Portal, not Warhammer, wtf does DakkaDakka even mean?

katiedoll wrote:
well i suppose the only point of the magnets would be be so they dont move during a game. But, again, ive never played so i dunno if thats an issue or not. Plus i think it would just be a tad cooler. When i make something i wanna do it right and cool the first time and not make a crappy one that after its done someone goes "oh wouldnt it be cool if...." and then its too late cause its after the fact. Id rather just make it cool from the get-go. -kate


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh and another thing. off the current topic, but, again, as a chick who plays Portal, not Warhammer, wtf does DakkaDakka even mean?

dakkadakka - it's the sound a gun makes....kinda. ...not really

oh i thought that was either 'pew pew' for a lazer type gun or a gagagagagagagaga! for a bullet gun. not really gettin the dakkadakka sound. but. whatev

katiedoll wrote:
oh i thought that was either 'pew pew' for a lazer type gun or a gagagagagagagaga! for a bullet gun. not really gettin the dakkadakka sound. but. whatev

It's closer to the second one

Dakka Dakka is something the Space Orks say.

This gun needs more dakka!

katiedoll wrote:
well i suppose the only point of the magnets would be be so they dont move during a game. But, again, ive never played so i dunno if thats an issue or not. Plus i think it would just be a tad cooler. When i make something i wanna do it right and cool the first time and not make a crappy one that after its done someone goes "oh wouldnt it be cool if...." and then its too late cause its after the fact. Id rather just make it cool from the get-go.

Terrain is going to be heavy enough that it's going to stay in one place unless you're playing on a polished smooth surface. It's only going to move if you bump it, but if you bump something on magnetic paint it's probably going to move anyway. The magnetic paint is probably going to be a lot more trouble than it's worth.

A game board that I actually think is pretty good is the Games Workshop board that they sell. Now, I would NOT be recommending that anyone buy it, as although though I think it's good, I don't think it's worth the price they ask.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod730814

Flick through the images and you can see how it's designed in a modular fashion, allowing it to be rearranged in to various layouts. This shows how you can use a river on a modular terrain board, the same applies to hills and things.

http://realmsofminiatures.blogspot.com/2012/07/modular-gaming-board-part-11.html

However, if you want to make a nice simple gaming board that looks decent, I think it's a good place to start. Terrain can be moveable and that's more practical for gaming purposes, but it does look better if it's not.

For that reason I think the best compromise is a modular terrain board with some terrain (hills, rivers) permanently attached to the board, and some other pieces that are movable (forests, villages, etc).

The really awesome looking gaming tables with mountains and castles and things like that tend to be a compromise where they aren't very good for GAMES. Something like this Helm's Deep board looks awesome...

http://modelsnottoys.blogspot.com/2009/03/helms-deep.html

But really isn't that practical for games as it inhibits movement too much and may create choke points that large regiments can't even fit through. You have to make compromises, as the game is a lot about moving troops and getting line of sight, so too much terrain may look artistically awesome, but end up choking the movement of troops to the point where it's hard to have an entertaining game. Likewise, because some models are unbalanced, you can't have steep slopes otherwise models will go tumbling down them. In 40k, which uses loose formations like this...
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m510227a_99120101080_SpaceWolvesBattleforceModels_873x627.jpg

you can get away with having stepped hills so even the models have a flat portion they can stand on, but then that still might not work for Fantasy, which has densely packed regiments like this...

http://www.poisonousmonkeys.co.uk/wfb/WFB%20Gallery/Empire%20Gallery.html

With all that in mind, I think making something modular like the Games Workshop table (my first link) is a good compromise of aesthetics and practicality, which you can expand with some modular rivers and such, and then have some removable forests, villages, or whatever fits the theme you want to go with.

katiedoll wrote:
well i suppose the only point of the magnets would be be so they dont move during a game. But, again, ive never played so i dunno if thats an issue or not. Plus i think it would just be a tad cooler. When i make something i wanna do it right and cool the first time and not make a crappy one that after its done someone goes "oh wouldnt it be cool if...." and then its too late cause its after the fact. Id rather just make it cool from the get-go. -kate


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh and another thing. off the current topic, but, again, as a chick who plays Portal, not Warhammer, wtf does DakkaDakka even mean?

it can be an issue, but the easier thing to do is to give your terrain pieces some weight. Using medium density fiberboard or hardboard for terrain bases helps with weight, as does texturing with glue and sand, and using rocks or other weighty accents.

Magnetic paint is also fiddly. You'll need lots of coats and flush contact with magnets to get good adherence. It smells terrible when you are using it and also does not store well.

Medium density fiberboard (MDF) and hardboard are easy to get and hardboard is very cheap. An 8'x4' sheet of 1/8" thick tempered hardboard will run you about 10 dollars at Home Depot. If you make sure to keep hardboard flat when you are gluing sand or other bits to it until it dries that should keep it from warping. It cuts well with a jigsaw and you can bevel the edges of any terrain bases to help them merge more smoothly into the table top. Just be sure to wear a mask when cutting or sanding MDF or hardboard as there are chemicals in to material that you would probably like to keep out of your lungs for the most part.