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***New modified list at below!***

Hi guys, I'm actually a HE player but now I want to try something new, so I picked WoC, for its high customizability.
OK so, since we know magic is a crucial part of Warhammer game, we always put a mage in our list except dwarf ( they have something else )
But how if I just don't? For KHORNE HATES MAGIC!

Let's move to the list. This list is simple and cheap...

Lord
halbert, shield, MoK, Juggernaut
Tali of preservation
Exalted Hero
BSB
halbert, shield, MoK, Juggernaut
Collar of Khorne
Warriors + AOHW(15)
FC MoK
Banner of eternal flame
warriors + AOHW(15)
FC MoK
Chaos Marauder + AOHW (40)
FC MoK
Warhounds+ poison (5)
Knights(5)
Std + Musician MoK
Knights (5)
Std + Musician MoK

It can be built with 2 army box, one CW box and one skull crusher box. lol
every unit is made to give enemy a good punch (except HE, sadly.
Warhounds hunt down warmachine or provide cover, Marauder play a big bunker, knights take flanks,
all we have to do is send our warrior to CC.
Looks simple, fun, but risky.
I know add a LV2 with lore of fire to support my army by kicking some Marauders away could be nice,
but that's not all MoK army any more,
So any ideas? C&C are always welcomed!

I would save points on the hounds not bother with piuson really. I use a unit or 2 of hounds as fanatic lures jumping on mangler squigs etc. but upgrading them is fairly pointless imo.

if you give your marauders GW instead of AHW when tgey swing back it will hurt a lot more and in hirde form that's a good 40 str 5 attacks..

personally I like running my CW six wide and find 24 is the magic number for my khorne warrioirs with AHW. also consoder a unit of khorne warriors with halberds? 3 str 5 attacks a guy give them the flaming banner and throw the razor standard on AHW can really help out the pressure on armies like dwarfs lizards amd any other heavily armored forces

with your knights consider the ranger standard. it is pricey but at forty points a model the first dangerous terrain check you fail without it is forty points saved lol. personally I like a thick unit of 10 knights more than two units of 5 and you basivally pick a flank you want to remove.

lastly what points do you want to play at? this is a good set of models to run at around 2500

cheers!
mike

Hi Mike!
Wow these opinions are nice!
Two units of dogs = super nice cover+redirector!
Marauders with GW is great! comparing with Empire greatsword they work almost the same effect but are much more cheaper.
CW with halberds, that's modeling problem... I'll just write a sticker memo on the models, and make them right someday. I don't have budget for halberds right now.
And AOHW CW with razor std sounds great! I always have problem fighting dwarf and liz with HE actually XD
However I'm not sure about the Knights... They can be vulnerable in front of warmachine, and can be seriously weakened before CC, any solution? or are they just firepower-attracter?
Oh, it's a 2000 game list. In my circle most players play 2000 list for WHFB, cause it's time saving and we can play more games! Of course veterans play 3000 too.
Cheers!

Give your lord either the ASF sword or the sword of +2 attacks.

Get the crown of command on your BSB. You really don't want 1 bad round of combat reducing you to double 1 break tests. (Yes. It can happen.)

Warriors generally work Best in 18s as you have a high Toughness, good armour, and the back rank effectively gives you 2 wound warriors. If that doesn't work, you're throwing them at the wrong targets. Also drop the champ here. He is an expensive upgrade for an extra attack who has to challenge.

Give the marauders flails if they number less than 50. Once you hit 50+ Then you can start to feel safe letting them strike last.

Drop the poison off the warhounds. They are there to keep big targets that you don't think you can handle yet out of combat until you feel safe fighting them. As such, they need to be as cheap as possible.

Combine the knights. 5 won't do enough in a protracted combat.

On a side note, to improve the list, you could take a level 1 with a scroll. To stop that final transmutation that will ruin your army. It isn't thematic, but it is useful. Almost necessary in a semicompetitive environment

Hi darkavanger!
I know marauders are the more the better, but I just started WoC and don't have so much models. I even want to try 4 50 marauder hordes with GW and MoK! Sounds great lol

Champs must challenge? I don't see they have Eye of the Gods rule on them nor FAQ does :-/ well, dropping them is fine anyway, since challenges can't be refused in WoC.

Yeah, magic is essential... it is sad but Khorne himself give up for more killing too. So... A Lv2 fire maybe?

A level one would work. He is just there to stop that one major gamechanging, non irresistable, spell that you cannot hope to roll. Like when a DE player rolls 8+ Dice at mindrazor and doesn't get the double 6.

Ok, so I quickly modified the list with opinions above, I got this:
Lord
-halbert, shield, MoK, Juggernaut
-Tali of preservation
Exalted Hero, BSB
-halbert, shield, MoK, Juggernaut
-Collar of Khorne
LV1 Lore of Fire
Warriors + halbert (15)
-Musician + std MoK
-Banner of eternal flame
warriors + AOHW(15)
-Musician + std MoK
-Razor Standard
Chaos Marauder + flails (40)
-Musician + std MoK
Warhounds (5)
Warhounds (5)
Knights(10)
-Std + Musician MoK

That's beautiful 2050 pts, but I have to trim down that 50 pts.
I have some options:
first: drop both Juggernaut, so that I get points for scroll, and I don't have to buy Skullcrasher box XD extra points buy armors for characters.
second: drop 3 knights to 7, I get even more pts left, and 7 in a row should still work fine.

Pick one for me, maybe? Thanks in advance!

***edited formate

The reason for the level 1 is to carry a scroll. I would drop the juggernaut for the BSB so he gets s LoS.

thedarkavenger wrote:
Give your lord either the ASF sword or the sword of +2 attacks.

8th pretty much confirmed that better attaks are worth more than simply more attaks, so my money goes to the ASF sword

Beyond that, I have some thoughts on trimming your list down. Here's my take, with more specific thoughts:

Chaos Lord - MoK, sword of swift slaying, charmed shield, dawnstone, ironcurse icon, juggernaut = 335
Exalted Hero - MoK, BSB, talisman of preservation, halberd = 199
Chaos Sorcerer - level 1 (FIRE), infernal puppet = 120

18 Warriors - MoK, banner of eternal flame, standard, musician, halberds = 346
18 Warriors - MoK, standard, musician, ahw = 336
40 Marauders - MoK, standard, musician, flails = 242
5 Warhounds = 30
5 Warhounds = 30

8 Knights - MoK, standard, musician = 380
---------
2018

You know a lord or exalted on a jugger receives no benefit from a mundane shield, right? His armor is already maxed at 1+ ... however a charmed shield justifies putting a shield on the model () and has the added benefit of protecting him from the first cannonball sent to snipe him out of his unit (remember that as he is Monstrous Cavalry he cannot hide in any unit, with the new exception of Skullcrushers). So there's that. For the second war machine snipe, you better either be in combat, get lucky, or hope you can roll a 6+ ward to save his butt - for 10 points I'd take the c.shield + ironcurse over the 4+ ward, which is just a 50% shot for 35 points more. Also, it was keeping him from taking a dawnstone, for an incredibly sexy rerolled 1+ save against anything that wants to hit him. Note: very few opponents are going to try to hit your lord, because he is so tough. The defense you buy him should get him into combat, and from there be used to mess up enemy attak allocation, etc. For weaponry, the S6 halberd is nice but really the name of the game is rerolls, and the ASF sword gets you 6 S5 of them. Also Striking First is cool.

Apart from the lord, the BSB is now on foot and, since I like things simple, got a S6 halberd (4 pts!) and a 4+ ward. The enemy will try much harder to kill this guy than the lord. Thankfully the BSB has friends ... I really dislike the level 1 sorcerer - if you have one spell the only way you will ever cast it is by Going Irresistible, which sucks for the wizard and his unit (Top Tip: step outside the unit before Going Irresistible!) - but that's where the puppet kicks in. Not only does it really screw with the enemy when s/he miscasts, but it also deters them from IF-relient casting, can be used multiple times, and can help your own wizard when he does choose to go IF and cast something. A really nasty item, and even if it's not quite worth 120 points, it's certainly closer to that then a 110 point scroll

The other big change is pumping both warrior blocks up. As noted, you need more of them, and 6-wide / 3-deep is a great place to start. I dropped the razor standard because it's silly expensive - yes some AP would be nice, no I don't think it's worth three more warriors. You'll just have to make the other player roll lots of saves

And there are less knights now. Jugger goes here (his ironcurse protects the unit as well, note), foot BSB goes somewhere (if you need more fire the halberd warriors' standard will light his weapon too), the sorcerer starts in a unit but if shooting / offensive magic is neutralized or you're feeling ballsy he could run free and/or hide and puppet things like the sniveling witch that he is.

Main problem: 18 points over. Personally I'd just drop some marauders to make the points, even if it makes for an uneven unit ....
Additional Perk: You don't have to buy any skullcrushers now! Just a sexy sexy juggerlord And perhaps more warriors

So some thoughts. Good luck out there!

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:
8th pretty much confirmed that better attaks are worth more than simply more attaks, so my money goes to the ASF sword.

I like to run helm of many eyes and the sword of +2 attacks. Best of both worlds

Thanks again darkavanger, and thank you Boss Salvage!

Ha ha...I give them shield cause they are built on the model, and yes, I know there's no 0+ AS. Charmed shield is really a good solution for both gaming and modeling. (Dude, why GW build models like that anyway?!
These thoughts are awesome! :-D Damn, I love this army, feeling excited even just thinking about it!
Yes ASF is cool, that's why I play HE as my WHFB starter army.
Oh, don't worry about model-buying. Besides Jugger lord and Skullcrasher box are almost the same price in my region XD

Thank all of you again!
Cheers!

thedarkavenger wrote:I like to run helm of many eyes and the sword of +2 attacks. Best of both worlds

The fewer Stupidity tests I can fail the better

hallodx wrote:Dude, why GW build models like that anyway?!

No idea on the skullcrushers, probably because it looks more like the chaos knights? And perhaps the rules will change in the future. In 7th edition there was no limit on armor, so a jugger lord with shield was 0+ and even (-1)+ with enchanted shield

- Salvage

honestly I like running the fire mage with a decent amount if spells I typically use him level 2 spell familiar and tge rest is up to you. (book of secrets n ruby ring compliment very well). trust me flsming sword of ruin is amaaaazing watching the expresson on someones face when 7-8 hits frim your chaos lotd autowound is priceless lol plus. it really really helps your AHW run right through blocks of infantry of just about any size.

the juggernaughts are not a good choice for the lords if they cant go anywhere in a unit it leaves them very vulnerable to being sniped out by warmachines or magic missiles :s

also for halberds I just use the lances thst came with. knights they hardly look like just a pointy lance there more glaive/halberdy anywas lol plus its a pretty easy conversion besides

cheers! hope this helps!!
mike


Automatically Appended Next Post:
everyone keeps saying put juggerlord in w the knights for some reason however its illegal. as the lord is monster cav atop the jugger where the knights are cav. keep this in mind as he will still be chillin by himself in the open

 Boss Salvage wrote:
The fewer Stupidity tests I can fail the better

That is a fair point, but when you run a big block of knights with the standard of discipline and a BSB in it, you shouldn't really fail that many.


Unless you're me.

And as for the level one mage. He is there for 1 purpose. To carry a dispel scroll. Beyond that, he is there to deal with ethereal units with a fireball. He isn't there to provide magical support. Khornate armies don't need that. When playing an army like this, you let the debuffs through and stop the spells that hurt you. An example would be lore of metal. You would let through something like enchanted blades, as you don't care about it, and stop Final transmutation. If you can stop both, it is even better.

Another option would be a scroll + third eye on the sorc, third eye mitigates the 'only knowing one spell' drawback, and even lvl1s can cast spells with enough dice. You dont want tomroll a 12 dice magic phase to only be able to cast one spell with 6 of those dice...

Hi, japehlio!
Third eye sounds interesting... if I didn't row a good magic, I can still cast opponent's. Must keep opponent's mage in sight though.

Hi, Mike!
This worries me at the beginning, but, luckily we don't face cannon here in my circle very often. Besides if a lord can send our Khorne worriers into CC, I think that worth.
Oh, that LV1 is just there as magic defender and solution for ethereal(3 VC players here, and one runs ethereal list. not powerful, but very annoying. It can destroy your day.:-/)
Why lance? I really need those enscrolled weapons for always S+1 and magic attack. I listed 2 knight units of 5 at top because of flexibility and they can be my reaction teams. They take down ethereal too.

Hi, darkavanger!
Why metal, really? Lore of Metal is really fun but not stable IMO. Except piercing bolt and flame cage lore of fire should be good enough against ethereal :-P

Hi, Salvage!
I see. well, just wrote a mail to GW! see what their reply is :-D
SC: "I was a Chaos Knight like you, then I got a Juggernaut between my thighs."

Lore of metal wounds you on your armour saves. So your knights will be wounded on 2s with no armour saves.

But the reason I say fire on a level 1 to manage ethereals and carry the scroll, as unless you roll flaming sword or flame cage, you take a fireball.

As it happens, the manager of my local GW store runs khorne only chaos warriors.

I haven't actually played him yet, but he told me his 1500pt list is a khorne lord on foot, 32 chaos warriors with halberds (one unit), 4 chaos ogres and I think 4 skull crushers.

Not the most subtle of armies, but then it is khorne!

From what I gather, he seems to do ok with this list against most folks which I guess proves that it is possible to do ok with no magic!

rocksteadygreeny wrote:the juggernaughts are not a good choice for the lords if they cant go anywhere in a unit it leaves them very vulnerable to being sniped out by warmachines or magic missiles :s
....
everyone keeps saying put juggerlord in w the knights for some reason however its illegal. as the lord is monster cav atop the jugger where the knights are cav. keep this in mind as he will still be chillin by himself in the open

Infantry characters on Monstrous Beasts become Monstrous Cav, which can in fact join any unit that they could normally join. While in that unit they cannot be targeted individually by direct fire shooting (without snipe) nor magical damage (without the ability to choose an individual target). The danger is that unless the hero's unit type (MC) matches that of their unit (CAV in the case of knights) and there are 5+ RNF models remaining, the character will not receive a LOS! roll against war machines. There's nothing illegal at all about a juggerlord joining just about any unit in the WoC book (just not monsters), it just can suck if up against cannons and not prepared.

Methinks you might be thinking about lords on monsters? Infantry character + Monster mount = Monster, and hence unable to join any unit.

japehlio wrote:Another option would be a scroll + third eye on the sorc, third eye mitigates the 'only knowing one spell' drawback, and even lvl1s can cast spells with enough dice. You dont want tomroll a 12 dice magic phase to only be able to cast one spell with 6 of those dice...

Smart on the level 1 Third Eye scroll caddy, had forgotten that trick Still would be more likely to take Infernal Puppet over the scroll, because of the repeated use and slightly better justification of taking a mage at all ...

- Salvage

rohansoldier wrote:As it happens, the manager of my local GW store runs khorne only chaos warriors.

I haven't actually played him yet, but he told me his 1500pt list is a khorne lord on foot, 32 chaos warriors with halberds (one unit), 4 chaos ogres and I think 4 skull crushers.

Not the most subtle of armies, but then it is khorne!

From what I gather, he seems to do ok with this list against most folks which I guess proves that it is possible to do ok with no magic!

I see lists with only warriors very often.
wonder if he takes Collar of Khorne to protect his warriors.

Boss Salvage wrote:

rocksteadygreeny wrote:the juggernaughts are not a good choice for the lords if they cant go anywhere in a unit it leaves them very vulnerable to being sniped out by warmachines or magic missiles :s
....
everyone keeps saying put juggerlord in w the knights for some reason however its illegal. as the lord is monster cav atop the jugger where the knights are cav. keep this in mind as he will still be chillin by himself in the open

Infantry characters on Monstrous Beasts become Monstrous Cav, which can in fact join any unit that they could normally join. While in that unit they cannot be targeted individually by direct fire shooting (without snipe) nor magical damage (without the ability to choose an individual target). The danger is that unless the hero's unit type (MC) matches that of their unit (CAV in the case of knights) and there are 5+ RNF models remaining, the character will not receive a LOS! roll against war machines. There's nothing illegal at all about a juggerlord joining just about any unit in the WoC book (just not monsters), it just can suck if up against cannons and not prepared.

Methinks you might be thinking about lords on monsters? Infantry character + Monster mount = Monster, and hence unable to join any unit.

japehlio wrote:Another option would be a scroll + third eye on the sorc, third eye mitigates the 'only knowing one spell' drawback, and even lvl1s can cast spells with enough dice. You dont want tomroll a 12 dice magic phase to only be able to cast one spell with 6 of those dice...

Smart on the level 1 Third Eye scroll caddy, had forgotten that trick Still would be more likely to take Infernal Puppet over the scroll, because of the repeated use and slightly better justification of taking a mage at all ...

- Salvage

oh, so Jugger characters are ABLE join troop, that's fine. Just as what I thought -_-



Automatically Appended Next Post:
So GW replied about skullcrasher...

Maybe the designers know something we don't, but I don't know why they have shields either. I would keep an eye on the FAQ/ Errata page.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

They don't know either......

Oh my bad for the mix up salvage your right!! I was mixing Los and joining units with different types *oooopsy*

I wasn't saying Yale lances on your knights simply tale the lance arms and put them on foot troops and tada polearms/halberds without spending 20$ on a pack of ten bits lol plus if you have any others at your local store who have chaos who have these extra lances they likely will give em up to just save space haha!

Also third eye of tzeentch is deadly! There isnt a lore that wouldn't benefit you from taking that sometimes you really luck out n some fat floating lore aster toad thinks he's a badass until you cast a bironas time warp on your seven man skullcrusher regiment with a jugger lord and jugger Bsb leading it....yea stubborn didn't even come into play on those temple gaurd there simply wasn't anyone left to make a morale check lol

Cheers!
Mike

new codex soon :( everything will change, I've heard they're bumping up the price of marauders.

BAN wrote:
new codex soon :( everything will change

Here's hoping - competitive WoC lists are mind-numbingly boring, I'd love to see some variety in tournament lists again. That said, I have a bad feeling we'll still see the same few units all the time, just new ones (mutalith, drogres / skullcrushers, etc)

- Salvage

Hi BAN!
I know, I started this thread before rumor leak... so I stopped following this after that. Just surprised it still get replies

Hi Boss Salvage!
I hope everything is balanced...and I hope Robin Cruddace love WoC! I started WoC hoping to find more fun from building various army, I don't like every single unit to be OP either...



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yep, appended.
I actually want to try Chariot in the next army book, for that is categorized to core lol. And there's a 25mm base in the box and there GW tells you: here, build your lord. Our plastic lord is going to be stocked.
Just a few days I can see the unit size and cost of a Chariot!

A quick one - the price of magic weapons, armour, stuff like that - does anyone just ignore all this stuff and use the cost on more bsae troops?
Lots of list discussions have 'builds' of different things to give characters, and then seem to complain about running out of points.

hallodx wrote:I actually want to try Chariot in the next army book, for that is categorized to core lol.

Chariots are back to core?! That doesn't matter as much in 8th - they used to be core in the last book, which meant you could do ~6 model chaos armies under 7th - but still way cool. Chaos chariots are currently excellent support units, but with no model worth paying for or building (the metal one was really bad for a stupid number of years) not too many people used them. $40 is pretty pricey for the new one but kit looks nice and the unit should still rock.

Actually thinking about getting 2x chariots instead of the mutalith. They're $5 cheaper () and may provide more solid tactical options, though the uber-beast is sounding pretty uber

Azzaphox wrote:A quick one - the price of magic weapons, armour, stuff like that - does anyone just ignore all this stuff and use the cost on more bsae troops?
Lots of list discussions have 'builds' of different things to give characters, and then seem to complain about running out of points.

Not sure what you're asking? Maybe this helps: the magic item allotment (50 for heroes, 100 for lords) includes only magic items, not mundane equipment, however the total cost of the character (base price + magic items + mundane gear + mount + upgrades) still has to fit in the 25% cap for their category. So in a 1000 point army you can only have a lord worth a total of 250 points, even if that leaves some magic item allotment unspent (most likely a LOT of it unspent).

- Salvage

Seeing threads like this give me hope for the future of this game.

@Azzaphox: you're asking if people just run their characters naked, using the points they'd spend on Magic Items to get more models?
I think Chaos can get away with it more than most; they have good armour and Toughness to start.
I do remember a Chaos list that was almost maxed out on characters, and it did fantastically well. Those characters never made back their points, but they did make back some points, while giving up next to none.

Honestly, though, I'd rather see more units that cannot be Mark'd than a Sorcerer scroll-caddy. He's got plenty of tactical significance and all, but at that point, I feel like you might as well abandon the pure Khorne-theme.

I faced off against a list with Trolls, Chariots, and Marauders, and came to realize that there was no legitimate target to engage. Even the support troops--Knights and Chariots--are super hard.

Boss Salvage:
I took a look at GW site WoC product list and it's under core options, so I guess so!
In fact I don't want to field monstrous creature in my army, just too difficult to carry IMO... Chariot is fine, and should be a good option to weaken some killy but easy-to-be-killed units by impact hit( Yes, I'm talking about my fellow White lions and Sword masters)

Hi, Warpsolution
But I hate trolls...I mean the models. I'll try only with base someday, and maybe with manga girl figures on da bases. lol

I use minotaurs for trolls coz i freaking love the models, even with the new throgg model i will still be using my doombull as throgg. However they have yet to be remotely succesful in a game as of yet... stoopid trolls.

I have a khorne army, and refuse to use magic, its fluff! no magic allowed!