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The Adeptus Terra: what is it?
It is said to be "The Priesthood of Earth" yet have nothing to do with The Ecclesiarchy so it doesn't seem to be a religious priesthood. Does it denote a goverment role? Anyway maybe some of you background experts can clarify.

Well, in short, it is what happens when you let a self-sufficient bureaucracy run rampant for 10.000 years, a grimdark perversion of real life red tape, yet so incredibly vital to the very existence of the Imperium that the Emperor's realm would likely break down and splinter if the many cogs in this monstrous machine would ever stop turning for but a single week. Defence, taxation, interstellar trade, law enforcement and a million other tasks are all entrusted to the many sub-adepta that form this monolithic organisation.

*dusts of ye olde Codex Imperialis*

"The Imperium is ruled in the Emperor's name by the incalculably vast Adeptus Terra, the ancient Priesthood of Earth, whose masters are the High Lords of Terra. The Adeptus Terra numbers billions upon billions of individuals on Earth alone. Its offices span the galaxy and its powers extend to every human world. No man is free from its influence or from the strictures of its rule. The Emperor has become a god in whose name the High Lords of Terra rule the Imperium. Superstition and dogma have become the rituals of worship.

The Adeptus Terra is a huge and multi-faceted organisation. It is divided and subdivided into countless subordinate organisations, millions of offices each with awesome powers. Indeed, the Adeptus Terra is so vast that no one can say with certainty how many divisions work under its banner, or what their purpose may be. Ten thousand years of endeavour have built an edifice which reaches into the heart of human society. Information is gathered, facts are accumulated, taxes are levied. Like an ancient and ponderous clock, the wheels of bureaucracy grind slowly forward, carried by their own momentum, without thought or consideration. Only a very few of the most important of these vast organisations are described here - there are many more and it is doubtful if anyone knows the full extent of the power of the Priesthood of Earth."

[...]

"The Adeptus Terra is also known as the Priesthood of Earth, or more simply as the Adeptus. It consists of many millions of dedicated servants and religious followers whose duty is to interpret and enforce the Imperial will. It is the Adeptus which actually controls the Imperium, including its armies and fleets. The Adeptus Terra is divided into many departments and sub-departments, some of which operate so secretly that their existence is unknown outside of their own membership - only the principal departments are shown here."

As far as the term "Priesthood" is concerned, I suppose that it is either connected to the original etymology of the term, which means "Elder", rather than any actual religious tasks, or - as the above quote hints at - they are some sort of "bureaucrat-priest", somewhat similar to the Tech-Priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus, just with stacks of cogitator-printed paper and servoskull-staplers, having devolved into a religious organisation over time (and perhaps even under influence of the Temple of the Saviour-Emperor), similar to ComStar of the Battletech franchise.

Priests of Bureacracy..... Truly the future is a grim, grim, grim, dark place.

So then basically it is any goverment employee I guess. A pencil pushing scribe would be an adeptus of the Adeptus Administratum.

Aye - the old 1E Rogue Trader rulebook mentions such scribes to be the lowest level members of the Administratum (which in itself is one of the many branches of the Adeptus Terra - certainly the most politically powerful).

That book even went so far as to call Administratum buildings "temples", describing them as a mixture of "barracks, church, fortress and office". Such wording is generally absent from later material, though. I imagine because the writers wanted to establish a stronger difference between the Adeptus Terra and the actual church: the Adeptus Ministorum.

The term "Priesthood of Earth" has been kept to this very day, however.



This was the chart for the Imperial hierarchy in the 6E rulebook.
The Adeptus Mechanicus used to be a sub-division of the Adeptus Terra back in the days of 2E, but it has since moved over to be its own branch under the High Lords. I suppose it fits to the greater level of autonomy, comparable to the Ministorum. Anyways, as you can see, the Adeptus Terra has lots of sub-divisions to administer... and those are only the most important ones.

Thanks Lynata.

I thought things were bad in The Imperium before but a priesthood of federal employees that worship the prophet of redundant paperwork at the alter of inefficiencey...so much worse than i thought.


So then the adjective term "Adeptus" does not denote membership in the Adeptus Terra then I guess. The Adeptus Mechanicus and Adpetus Ministorum for example.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
So then basically it is any goverment employee I guess.

Any employee of the Terran government, that is.

 Manchu wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
So then basically it is any goverment employee I guess.

Any employee of the Terran government, that is.

Yes, "federal" employees. The best kind of employees.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:So then the adjective term "Adeptus" does not denote membership in the Adeptus Terra then I guess. The Adeptus Mechanicus and Adpetus Ministorum for example.

I suppose this too may have evolved over time, with "Adeptus" having become the default term for a department of the Imperial government. A bureau of adepts. I've read somewhere that "Adept" is a honourary title bestowed upon every member of an Adeptus, though I cannot recall where. Might've only been a licensed product, but it makes sense to me.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Priests of Bureacracy..... Truly the future is a grim, grim, grim, dark place.

So then basically it is any goverment employee I guess. A pencil pushing scribe would be an adeptus of the Adeptus Administratum.

There you go, Adeptus Terra is Imperium's Government and all it's sectors.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Yes, "federal" employees. The best kind of employees.

That's not what I was getting at but it's a really good point. Do Imperial Governor count as members of Adeptus Terra? How about PDF generals? Maybe not ...

 Lynata wrote:
I've read somewhere that "Adept" is a honourary title bestowed upon every member of an Adeptus

I've never heard anyone speak of Adept Sicarius or Adept Mephiston, however.

 Lynata wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:So then the adjective term "Adeptus" does not denote membership in the Adeptus Terra then I guess. The Adeptus Mechanicus and Adpetus Ministorum for example.

I suppose this too may have evolved over time, with "Adeptus" having become the default term for a department of the Imperial government. A bureau of adepts. I've read somewhere that "Adept" is a honourary title bestowed upon every member of an Adeptus, though I cannot recall where. Might've only been a licensed product, but it makes sense to me.

"Adeptus" is more than that, that word basically means "servant" when translated.

Adeptus Astartes - Servant Solders.
Adeptus Mechanicus - Sevrant Engineers.
Adeptus Assassinorium - Servants Assassins.
Adeptus Ministorum - Servants Priests.
etc...

With only exceptions begin the Inquisition who is above all Adepts.

@Manchu: Yes, Imperial Govenors are part of The Adeptus Terra but Adeptus Astartes aren't.

As for PDR Generals, I'm pretty sure even Imperial Guardsmen aren't part of The Adeptus Terra so the PDF wouldn't be involved at all.

Manchu wrote:I've never heard anyone speak of Adept Sicarius or Adept Mephiston, however.

Just like nobody would address Prince Charles as a Duke, I imagine. Yet that is one of the titles he has.

I'm no expert on such matters, but I would assume that people in organisations such as the Imperium can amass a variety of titles and forms of address all depending on their service history and affiliation. When talking to or about them, you just use the highest / most important one.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
@Manchu: Yes, Imperial Govenors are part of The Adeptus Terra but Adeptus Astartes aren't.

Uh ... on what basis are you declaring this?

 Manchu wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
@Manchu: Yes, Imperial Govenors are part of The Adeptus Terra but Adeptus Astartes aren't.

Uh ... on what basis are you declaring this?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adeptus_Terra

 Lynata wrote:
When talking to or about them, you just use the highest / most important one.

I didn't mean SM are not adepts of Adeptus Astartes -- but it's more like being a citizen of the USA or similar. We're never actually called "Citizen ____." And no one would say we enjoy the honorary title "Citizen of the United States of America." The usage seems different as between the Administratum and Mechanicum on the one hand and the Astartes and Eccesliarchy on the other.


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 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adeptus_Terra

Adeptus Astartes are listed there ... and more importantly on the chat Lynata likes to post. (Although I'd like to know if the BGB says anything specific about that dotted line.) Governors are also on the chart so good call. How about PDF generals? Or are they just gubernatorial staff?

@Manchu: Sorry I kind of edited my post up there at the same time you posted. I don't think an Imperial guardsmen even counts as part of of The Adeptus Terra so a PDF guy definately wouldn't. Now Imperial Guard are certainly federal troops and as we seen on that link the Imperial Guard are part of the Adeptus Terra. Furthermore, A Lord Militant General would definately be Adeptus Terra. So I'm thinking when it comes to the IG the officer class is part of The Priesthood of Terra. Dog faced grunts aren't important enough.

I don't think Astartes are Adeptus Terra at all. They are not "federal troops" but roving bands of trouble shooters doing their own thing.

Adeptus Astartes are not in any way part of Adeptus Terra, as fluff states they are independent military force who may answer a distress call from High Lords of Terra to assist in certain campaigns. Other than that they are pretty much independent from Imperial Government, just as it should be as they are solders and not politicians.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I don't think an Imperial guardsmen even counts as part of of The Adeptus Terra [...] Imperial Guard are certainly federal troops and as we seen on that link the Imperial Guard are part of the Adeptus Terra.

I think this supports my idea that "adept" is more of a status in some cases than a title. It could be like the word "employee." Please note, I don't mean that it's a synonym for "employee." For the higher ups of some organizations, it can be used as a generic title. For other organizations, it's the equivalent of saying "I work for Adeptus _____." Just like you wouldn't go into a store and say "Employ Jones! Direct me to your confections!" -- well, you could do that but make sure you're doing Commissar cosplay at the same time.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I don't think Astartes are Adeptus Terra at all. They are not "federal troops" but roving bands of trouble shooters doing there own thing.

I think that just indicates that the "federal" metaphor has its limitations.


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 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Adeptus Astartes are not in any way part of Adeptus Terra

Just take a look at the chart from the BGB Lynata posted above.

@Alexander: I agree, but I don't think it's inherently true soldiers should not be under the goverment. Quite the opposite actually.

It's because Astartes aren't soldiers....they're "angels".

EDIT: ninja'd

 Manchu wrote:

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 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Adeptus Astartes are not in any way part of Adeptus Terra

Just take a look at the chart from the BGB Lynata posted above.

And you can see that they are not in full line like the rest of them but in breakable line. Meaning that they can answer to call sometimes but sometimes decline.

 Manchu wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I don't think an Imperial guardsmen even counts as part of of The Adeptus Terra [...] Imperial Guard are certainly federal troops and as we seen on that link the Imperial Guard are part of the Adeptus Terra.

I think this supports my idea that "adept" is more of a status in some cases than a title. It could be like the word "employee." Please note, I don't mean that it's a synonym for "employee." For the higher ups of some organizations, it can be used as a generic title. For other organizations, it's the equivalent of saying "I work for Adeptus _____." Just like you wouldn't go into a store and say "Employ Jones! Direct me to your confections!" -- well, you could do that but make sure you're doing Commissar cosplay at the same time.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I don't think Astartes are Adeptus Terra at all. They are not "federal troops" but roving bands of trouble shooters doing there own thing.

I think that just indicates that the "federal" metaphor has its limitations.


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 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Adeptus Astartes are not in any way part of Adeptus Terra

Just take a look at the chart from the BGB Lynata posted above.

Yes, I think we all agree on that. There is no rank too low in the Administratum to not be an "adept". It means federal employee.

Yes, even the link I posted agrees there may be some sort of loose connection but doesn't elaborate on it. Personally, I don't see any. Certainly the Astartes are not under the Administratum. They should just be floating around on the chart without even the dotted line.

So the BGB is mistaken ... or ... this belongs in the personal retcon thread? I don't quite understand what you mean.

It says the Space Marines are "loosely affiliated". Affiliated means they are not part of it. Furthermore.....it's loose.

Red tape where a simple rounding error at the thousanth decimal place can result in entire planets being lost or Imperial Guard being sent thousands of light years from where they needed to be sent.

From how I understand the material, the Adeptus Astartes are officially subject to the High Lords, who are representatives of the Emperor Himself. That they are below the Adeptus Terra, just like the Imperial Guard, is probably because the Adeptus Terra acts as the High Lords' bureaucracy when it comes to troop movements.

Even the 2E Codex Imperialis chart already had it like that.

The line is dotted because Space Marines sometimes just decline an order, just like they can say "no" even to an Inquisitor. This does not change that they are still officially supposed to say yessir and move out.
The Celestial Lions, for example, have been ordered to deploy their entire Chapter to Armageddon.

Originally the word "adeptus" has the meaning of something that has been achieved, in this sense it was used to describe someone who had achieved a certain level (expecially of knowledge) within an organisation. For example in antique Greece an adept was someone who had been introduced to the secret lore of a mystery cult. In medieval alchemy an adept was someone who had achieved the secret of the mystery stone. More universally it can be used to someone who is accepted as a scholar of a certain lore.
On this base I have always understood that in 40k "adeptus" is a term used for public servants, btw, the public agencies they serve in. I don't know how it is in other countries, but in Germany the state employees that execute state authority (e.g. police, fiscal office, school teachers... ) pledge allegiance (they are named "Beamte" you translate that as "someone who is trusted with an office"), and have special conditions of employment. "Adeptus" looks quite the same to me.

 Lynata wrote:

The Celestial Lions, for example, have been ordered to deploy their entire Chapter to Armageddon.

We all know why , to counter the ORK snipers.

 Lynata wrote:
The line is dotted because Space Marines sometimes just decline an order, just like they can say "no" even to an Inquisitor. This does not change that they are still officially supposed to say yessir and move out.

This sounds the most reasonable to me. Lexi cites p 139 of BGB6E. What does that say?

 Manchu wrote:
Lexi cites p 139 of BGB6E. What does that say?

That is where that picture that Lynata posted comes from.